Does anyone still want to argue...

[deluca67]

...that Briere is a 100 point player and that the Sabres should have signed him? 72 points and a minus 22.

 

The Sabres are going to take heat for not making the playoffs. Briere does not deserve to part of that argument. This is one the Sabres got right.

[Done]

I keep seeing that as an arguement, and it's a bad one.

 

You might want to include the fact that Briere has 37 powerplay points.

 

Oh....Mike Weber is a +12

 

Dionne Phaneuf is only a +9. What a slacker. I would never trade Mike Weber for Dionne Phaneuf. I know Calgary is going to the playoffs and all, and Phaneuf is an All-Star starter, and he just signed a close to lifetime contract....but he's such a little boy sporting that +9.

 

 

I say Darcy should sign Mike Weber to a 7 year, $60 million extension in the offseason. He was on pace for a +72!!!

 

 

Danny Briere is worth the $5 million he could have been signed for a year ago. It's that simple, and it's the reason that the front office is a bunch of clowns. What a disgusting waste of a season.

[inkman]

I'm not overly concerned with what was done right this past off season but more looking a what was done wrong. (which was basically everything outside of locking up Roy long-term)

[stenbaro]

I'm not overly concerned with what was done right this past off season but more looking a what was done wrong. (which was basically everything outside of locking up Roy long-term)

Right on..Nothing needs to be added....

[ofiba]

I think Briere is overpaid too, but he would likely have more points if he was on the Sabres.

 

This system is made for guys like him.

[inkman]

Right on..Nothing needs to be added....

Is that what I said? :unsure:

[Claude Balls]

Thomas Vanek 81 games, 61 pts, -6 at what 7 mill?

 

Daniele Briere 79 games, 72 points, -22 at 5 mill.

 

What's to argue. Right now it looks like Buffalo kept the wrong player. Those 11 extra points could have come in pretty handy right about now I'm thinking.

[tom webster]

...that Briere is a 100 point player and that the Sabres should have signed him? 72 points and a minus 22.

 

The Sabres are going to take heat for not making the playoffs. Briere does not deserve to part of that argument. This is one the Sabres got right.

 

 

For someone who preached looking toward the future, you sure bring up the past a lot.

I could break down the plus/minus and meantion the Sabres power play but you would only spin it another way.

For the record;

Briere at what the Flyers paid - No

Briere at whatever the number before arbirtration - Yes

[nfreeman]

...that Briere is a 100 point player and that the Sabres should have signed him? 72 points and a minus 22.

 

The Sabres are going to take heat for not making the playoffs. Briere does not deserve to part of that argument. This is one the Sabres got right.

 

I will. This is another one that the Sabres got wrong. Here it is once again, clearly and unequivocally: the Sabres should have signed Briere. They should have given him $5 million x 5 years before last season, and after Drury said no in the fall of 2006, they should have given him $6 million x 6 years on January 1, 2007 (the first day they were permitted to re-sign him). They should have realized that under no circumstances could they allow both of their cocaptains to leave as free agents, because the consequences would be catastrophic.

 

Do you disagree that the consequences of losing both of them have been catastrophic?

 

Do you disagree that Philly -- maybe the worst team in the NHL last year -- is going to the playoffs this year and the Sabres (who won the President's trophy last year) are not? Do you disagree that the Sabres did not deserve to make the playoffs this year? Do you disagree that the only difference between last year's elite team and this year's hugely disappointing team was the absence of Drury, Briere, and Teppo?

 

I would rather have kept Drury than Briere. I was fine with the Sabres choosing Drury over Briere. But once they butchered the Drury contract and he bolted on them, they should have immediately moved to keep Briere. They should have known the impact losing both of them would have on the team.

 

Frankly, I'm amazed that you're using the occasion of the Sabres being eliminated while Philly is getting in to crow about how smart they were to let Briere go. That's like allowing your car to get towed, abandoning it in the tow pound, losing your job because you can no longer get to work, and then bragging about how smart you are because gas has increased from $2.50 to $3 per gallon.

[carpandean]

Danny Briere is worth the $5 million he could have been signed for a year ago. It's that simple, and it's the reason that the front office is a bunch of clowns. What a disgusting waste of a season.

Briere at whatever the number before arbitration - Yes

People keep saying that but at the time nobody could believe that he was given that much for a one year deal, much less for this mythical 5 years revisionists want. Salaries exploded in a one-year period to the point where $5 million doesn't seem that bad, but when that decision was made a lot of people were in disbelief. Note: I'm assuming that by "a year ago" you actually meant before the 2006-07 season, because it is by no means a guarantee that he would have taken anything close to $5 million last spring.

 

 

Thomas Vanek 81 games, 61 pts, -6 at what 7 mill?

 

Daniele Briere 79 games, 72 points, -22 at 5 mill.

 

What's to argue. Right now it looks like Buffalo kept the wrong player. Those 11 extra points could have come in pretty handy right about now I'm thinking.

First, it wasn't a choice between the two. Second, one is a 24 year old kid who is probably not at his peak yet (you never know, but usually at 24 players are on the way up), while the other is 31 and probably as good as he will get (again, this is usually the case for 31 year old players). No doubt Vanek was a gamble, but the potential upside was huge and, for all intents and purposes, they didn't have much of choice. This year was definitely not a move forward, but in a step back he only scored 33 goals. If he rebounds even slightly, he will be scary. Either way, though, this doesn't change whether Danny was worth what he got or not.

 

My stance is, and has always been, letting Danny go and keeping Chris was the right strategy. They mucked up negotiations with Chris, but the bigger mistake was not picking someone else up when they realized that they lost him. Would Danny have helped them this year? Yes, he probably would have, but so would any number of veteran centers. Would he have been worth the money over the life of his contract? Maybe, but I still believe there are a lot better choices out there.

[JohnRobertEichel]

I will. This is another one that the Sabres got wrong. Here it is once again, clearly and unequivocally: the Sabres should have signed Briere. They should have given him $5 million x 5 years before last season, and after Drury said no in the fall of 2006, they should have given him $6 million x 6 years on January 1, 2007 (the first day they were permitted to re-sign him). They should have realized that under no circumstances could they allow both of their cocaptains to leave as free agents, because the consequences would be catastrophic.

 

Do you disagree that the consequences of losing both of them have been catastrophic?

 

Do you disagree that Philly -- maybe the worst team in the NHL last year -- is going to the playoffs this year and the Sabres (who won the President's trophy last year) are not? Do you disagree that the Sabres did not deserve to make the playoffs this year? Do you disagree that the only difference between last year's elite team and this year's hugely disappointing team was the absence of Drury, Briere, and Teppo?

 

I would rather have kept Drury than Briere. I was fine with the Sabres choosing Drury over Briere. But once they butchered the Drury contract and he bolted on them, they should have immediately moved to keep Briere. They should have known the impact losing both of them would have on the team.

 

Frankly, I'm amazed that you're using the occasion of the Sabres being eliminated while Philly is getting in to crow about how smart they were to let Briere go. That's like allowing your car to get towed, abandoning it in the tow pound, losing your job because you can no longer get to work, and then bragging about how smart you are because gas has increased from $2.50 to $3 per gallon.

 

WAY too much effort in this post. Remember who you're arguing with here. DeLuca can't openly acknowledge anything the Sabres do that is bad. Nor can he acknoweledge anything the Bills do that is good. He has some sort of mental disorder, I believe.

[RayFinkle]

...that Briere is a 100 point player and that the Sabres should have signed him? 72 points and a minus 22.

 

The Sabres are going to take heat for not making the playoffs. Briere does not deserve to part of that argument. This is one the Sabres got right.

I'll argue the Sabres should have offered him a 5 year 25 million dollar deal when they gave him the 1 year contact. Danny B is worth 5 million in today's market.

[deluca67]

I'll argue the Sabres should have offered him a 5 year 25 million dollar deal when they gave him the 1 year contact. Danny B is worth 5 million in today's market.

If Briere is worth $5 million that would make Roy worth about $10 million since he is twice the player Briere is.

[carpandean]

I'll argue the Sabres should have offered him a 5 year 25 million dollar deal when they gave him the 1 year contact. Danny B is worth 5 million in today's market.

And I should have put all my money into gold two years ago because it's worth twice as much now.

 

That's pure hindsight. At the time most people would have thought that they were nuts for doing that.

[will]

I think Briere is overpaid too, but he would likely have more points if he was on the Sabres.

 

This system is made for guys like him.

 

this system is made to lose in the conference finals year after year...should it get that far.

 

but by all means, lets bitch about letting go the players that would get the team there instead of putting the team in a financial position to build themselves properly without mortgaging the future.

[apuszczalowski]

this system is made to lose in the conference finals year after year...should it get that far.

 

but by all means, lets bitch about letting go the players that would get the team there instead of putting the team in a financial position to build themselves properly without mortgaging the future.

the system is the same one that got them to the ECF 2 years in a row. The same system that if they would have been able to keep a couple of defencemen healthy 2 years ago would have been in the cup, and probably beaten Edmonton fairly quickly

 

Whop says this team is going to build themselves properly now? Haven't we all said for the last couple years that they need to do X or Y to get better, and every year all they seem to do is let guys go and build from within, Always building for the future.

[carpandean]

I will. This is another one that the Sabres got wrong. Here it is once again, clearly and unequivocally: the Sabres should have signed Briere. They should have given him $5 million x 5 years before last season, and after Drury said no in the fall of 2006, they should have given him $6 million x 6 years on January 1, 2007 (the first day they were permitted to re-sign him).

I think that you and I agreed to disagree about this in another post.

 

Do you disagree that the consequences of losing both of them have been catastrophic?

Can't disagree, but that doesn't mean that the best decision was to give Danny that money. They needed to fill those shoes, but after Chris left, nothing said that they had to look within for the replacement.

 

Do you disagree that Philly -- maybe the worst team in the NHL last year -- is going to the playoffs this year and the Sabres (who won the President's trophy last year) are not? Do you disagree that the Sabres did not deserve to make the playoffs this year? Do you disagree that the only difference between last year's elite team and this year's hugely disappointing team was the absence of Drury, Briere, and Teppo?

Check the standings. While they have a game-in-hand on the Caps, they are in 9th right now with two very difficult games left. Besides the fact that the Flyers team of this year is very different than the team that played most of last year. They made a lot of moves to improve their team, of which Danny was just one and, according to many of their fans, the most disappointing one.

 

I would definitely argue that the only difference is their absence. The league has changed some, too. Besides, Teppo and Drury were in the Sabres' plans when they chose to let Danny walk. While the initial deal fell through, they still believed a deal with Chris could be done and Teppo was healthy until the late summer. I will agree that the total lack of veteran leaders really hurt this team, but that their failure was not bringing someone else in after Chris left.

[nfreeman]

I think that you and I agreed to disagree about this in another post.

 

Can't disagree, but that doesn't mean that the best decision was to give Danny that money. They needed to fill those shoes, but after Chris left, nothing said that they had to look within for the replacement.

 

Check the standings. While they have a game-in-hand on the Caps, they are in 9th right now with two very difficult games left. Besides the fact that the Flyers team of this year is very different than the team that played most of last year. They made a lot of moves to improve their team, of which Danny was just one and, according to many of their fans, the most disappointing one.

 

I would definitely argue that the only difference is their absence. The league has changed some, too. Besides, Teppo and Drury were in the Sabres' plans when they chose to let Danny walk. While the initial deal fell through, they still believed a deal with Chris could be done and Teppo was healthy until the late summer. I will agree that the total lack of veteran leaders really hurt this team, but that their failure was not bringing someone else in after Chris left.

 

Which money? I'm not saying they should've ponied up $50 million for him. I'm saying they should've paid him $6 million x 6 years on Jan. 1, 2007, which I think (although admittedly this is sheer speculation) would've been accepted.

 

While neither you nor I can know what they believed when the initial deal fell through, I think it's fair to hold them accountable for realizing, at that time, that (i) Drury had decided to leave and (ii) even if they weren't sure what was going to happen with Drury, the risk at that point of both of them leaving was unacceptable.

 

While I also would have liked to see a veteran leader imported (like Ryan Smyth, who was a UFA), I don't think it's as simple as just signing a FA. This was a team that had just made the final 4 two years in a row. They weren't going to be led by an outsider. It would have been much more effective to keep the veteran leaders that had developed internally over time.

 

The players needed to know that management was committed to keeping the team together. If they had seen Drury leave for the Rangers, but had also seen Briere signed and Campbell extended, they would've kept two veteran leaders and known that management was behind them. It still would've hurt to lose Drury and Teppo, but they would've been much better this year. Instead, they came out this year like they had been punched in the stomach and didn't improve much.

 

Just my opinion.

[Mike Oxhurtz]

...that Briere is a 100 point player and that the Sabres should have signed him? 72 points and a minus 22.

 

The Sabres are going to take heat for not making the playoffs. Briere does not deserve to part of that argument. This is one the Sabres got right.

 

New team, new players, of course things are going to change. I still wish we had him for shootouts.

[BuffalOhio]

Frankly, I'm amazed that you're using the occasion of the Sabres being eliminated while Philly is getting in to crow about how smart they were to let Briere go. That's like allowing your car to get towed, abandoning it in the tow pound, losing your job because you can no longer get to work, and then bragging about how smart you are because gas has increased from $2.50 to $3 per gallon.

 

Hey, where do you get gas for $3.00 a gallon? Please share this valuable information! :lol:

[carpandean]

Which money? I'm not saying they should've ponied up $50 million for him. I'm saying they should've paid him $6 million x 6 years on Jan. 1, 2007, which I think (although admittedly this is sheer speculation) would've been accepted.

This was the part on which we agreed to disagree. At best, I think he's worth $5 million per and definitely not for anything longer than 5 years.

 

You are right that importing a leader can be difficult, but there are definitely some players that have that ability, even if it is just leading by example. I never got the impression that either Chris or Drury was an inspirational speech type leader. They lead by stepping up when the game was on the line and leaving everything on the table (especially Chris.) Roy showed that type of leadership last night and on many other occasions, but others could have stepped in there as a proven veteran leaders and done the same from the get-go. If this team has some of that presence to help carry them through those tight situations, it would have done a lot for their confidence.

[spndnchz]

New team, new players, of course things are going to change. I still wish we had him for shootouts.

Briere was a good lead off man, but...

'06-'07 Players '07-'08

71% Kotalik 41.7%

67% Stafford 25%

42.9% Briere 42.9%

0 Pommers 50%

0 Roy 20%

33% Max 33%

 

you'd have to include IMO, significant drop offs by others. (TV's about the same 16-18% this year vs. last)

 

and this:

 

Miller in 2006-07 was 9 goals on 46 shots 80.4% save percentage in shootouts, we went 10-4 in 14 SO's

Miller in 07-08 was 14 goals on 33 shots, for a 57.6% SO percent, we went 4-7 in 11 shootouts.

 

as step of wishfull thinking further,

if you had taken 3 more games this year to a shootout instead of losing in OT, and Miller won 80% we'd have 2 more wins and be in the playoffs. Add it to the list.

 

Me Miller, me tired.

[nfreeman]

Let's not forget that Briere was also our leading scorer in the playoffs the past 2 years. Of course, you need to get to the playoffs for that to be relevant.

[nfreeman]

If Briere is worth $5 million that would make Roy worth about $10 million since he is twice the player Briere is.

 

Nonsense. He's a good player, and I'm glad we have him, but he's not all that. Poor clearing attempts by Roy, in a game with the entire season on the line, led directly to TWO goals by the Habs last night. He also has shown zero leadership ability. I don't care about his point-scoring streak. With the season on the line, this team crapped the bed in the last month. There's a reason Lindy didn't make him a captain this year despite having 7 opportunities to do so.

[X. Benedict]

He also has shown zero leadership ability. I don't care about his point-scoring streak. With the season on the line, this team crapped the bed in the last month. There's a reason Lindy didn't make him a captain this year despite having 7 opportunities to do so.

Roy = zero leadership? I find that really surprising.

Playing all units, double shifting, the guy is in amazing shape, and his game is remarkably

consistent IMO. Actually I think that might be it. Lindy pretty much used the letters when

he was asking somebody to step up their game.

 

If you ever talk to anyone from Kitchener...he is still a legend there.