Post your ideas on how to help the Canes sell out game #2.

[Taro T]

Brilliant thread. Are you kidding me? And lets start with the fact that I am a Buffalo girl that happens to like both the Canes and Sabres all year. Actually, in the Sabres case, make that the last 20 years.

 

I've interned for the Sabres. I've gone to hundreds of games in this lifetime. I've written about them for publications in Buffalo. I get them, admire their season this year and think they have something special on the ice. I'm thrilled Buffalo has something to cheer for, because the Bills left a lot to be desired this year.

 

But the Canes have my support in this series. And this year, for a lot of reasons, my alliances will lie there first and foremost. May the best team win. And I mean that.

 

But after the performance the Buffalo fans put on in Raleigh, a lot of people in Raleigh wanted to assume this whole WNY region was a mess. That Buffalo was a bunch of idiots, and that those that went down represented all of us who have cheered this team on for years. Personally, I think those fans that went down there shouldn't have the right to wear a jersey with a Sabres crest on it. They shouldn't be allowed to wear a symbol of my city and act like dangerous, moronic fools.

 

On the Canes board, they quelled their rants on these fans to get back to hockey. I'm sure it doesn't feel good to shut it and not be able to vent about those morons, but you know what? They did. And you know what they get? This stupid thread. Welcome back to stereotyping.

 

No, the Buffalo fans are not all morons, not all drunken jerks, not all fat, lazy, unemployed slobs. But Raleigh, the population of which is probably at least 20% from WNY, isn't a bunch of rednecks either and I'm sure everyone here knows that. There's more to life there than NASCAR, and in the case of this thread - they apparently have some Sabres fans beat on ethics, morality and the ability to be decent human beings to one another.

 

Thanks for making me proud to be from Buffalo. :roll.

 

Think maybe we could stick to hockey and come off a little more intelligently? Or do me a favor, like Erik Cole did in practice today when he wore an "injured" denoting jersey - clearly mark yourself in HSBC when I am there on Wednesday. Wear a sign so when I walk around, so I'm clear on who exactly thinks this is funny. I have a feeling if you had to show yourself, you wouldn't spout this garbage.

Brilliant reply. <_<

 

How in the world can you say a person shouldn't have the right to wear whatever they darn well please as long as it doesn't have anything profane on it and it's been washed recently? Aww, did the mean old Sabres fans hurt your feelings? How DARE they actually cheer their team. I thought the broadcast of the game was hilarious when I heard "Let's Go Buf-fa-lo" and Emerick (sp?) was saying how loud the CANES fans were.

 

I couldn't care less what is posted on a Canes message board. So crying about what is or isn't getting posted on one of your beloved Canes boards really won't generate any sympathy from me.

 

Crying about what is posted on this board isn't going to accrue any sympathy either.

 

If you do come to the game Wednesday, wear your Cane crud and cheer for "your" team. You will be drowned out by 18,000+ others that don't like your team, but that's the way it goes. No one is going to go crying "some idiot chick was at the game and she had the audacity to cheer for someone other than the Sabres". You also aren't going to be threatened unlike what I've read happened to a few Sabres fans at the game. You'll be able to tell who I am, I'll be the one wearing the red Sabres sweater.

 

If your post is indicative of the quality of your writing prowess, I am shocked that you have ever been published outside of your neighborhood newsletter. As to your final question, no, I truly doubt that you are capable of discussing things more intelligently than you have, but I definitely hope that you are not as dumb as you came across in your post.

 

Once again, your reply to this thread was truly brilliant. <_<

[jad1]

Ouch! :lol:

 

Sabres vs Canes fans = Stanley Cup passion vs minor league hockey mentality.

 

Sabres Fans: "We want the Cup!"

Canes Fans: "We want juice boxes and fruit cups for our toddlers!"

 

Canes Fan: "I won't pay that much for a playoff ticket."

Sabres Fan "I'll buy that ticket, and pay for airfare, meals, and a hotel room."

 

Sabres Fan: "Canes fans are cool, they tailgate before each game."

Canes Fan: "You're not supposed to DRINK at our tailgate!"

 

Sabres Fan: "Our team gets no respect!"

Canes Fan: "Jeff Gordon gets no respect!"

 

Sabres Fan: No goal; No goal II; Kasparitis tosses the puck; Rigas gets arrested

Canes Fan: Moving van blows a tire on the trip out of Hartford

 

It looks like this is the end of innocence for the Canes fans. Sabres fans want it more. Canes fans better deal with it, especially if this is a long series, because we're not changing.

 

 

Brilliant reply. <_<

 

How in the world can you say a person shouldn't have the right to wear whatever they darn well please as long as it doesn't have anything profane on it and it's been washed recently? Aww, did the mean old Sabres fans hurt your feelings? How DARE they actually cheer their team. I thought the broadcast of the game was hilarious when I heard "Let's Go Buf-fa-lo" and Emerick (sp?) was saying how loud the CANES fans were.

 

I couldn't care less what is posted on a Canes message board. So crying about what is or isn't getting posted on one of your beloved Canes boards really won't generate any sympathy from me.

 

Crying about what is posted on this board isn't going to accrue any sympathy either.

 

If you do come to the game Wednesday, wear your Cane crud and cheer for "your" team. You will be drowned out by 18,000+ others that don't like your team, but that's the way it goes. No one is going to go crying "some idiot chick was at the game and she had the audacity to cheer for someone other than the Sabres". You also aren't going to be threatened unlike what I've read happened to a few Sabres fans at the game. You'll be able to tell who I am, I'll be the one wearing the red Sabres sweater.

 

If your post is indicative of the quality of your writing prowess, I am shocked that you have ever been published outside of your neighborhood newsletter. As to your final question, no, I truly doubt that you are capable of discussing things more intelligently than you have, but I definitely hope that you are not as dumb as you came across in your post.

 

Once again, your reply to this thread was truly brilliant. <_<

[CanesChic]

If this person is who I think she is, you couldn't be more off base. Then again, I've been wrong before. :rolleyes:

 

Jeez, I gave myself away already?? :D

 

You can all attribute my request to avoid stereotyping the NC hockey fans, and to do Buffalo proud in the process, by assuming that I am a transplant to NC that has adopted a redneck lifestyle. You know nothing about me, or why I back the Canes, and it doesn't even matter so I won't explain.

 

What does matter is that each one of us has probably encountered people that roll their eyes at us when we say we are from Buffalo. We have all heard the weather jokes, the painful Bills jokes, the Polish jokes, the fat jokes...and we know this person obviously has no clue about why we actually love this city. I'd think that anyone that misrepresents Sabres fans and Buffalo residents, whether from Buffalo or not, by acting like boorish drunks would be offensive for any real, true passionate fan of the Sabres.

 

This wasn't a discussion on the pricing of tickets or about being fanatical for your team. If Canes managment priced out their fans, that's management's problem and Canes fans will be heard about that in the coming months. In the meantime, it worked out for the Sabres fans who can afford it to go to the games, so why complain?

 

And as for coming to HSBC - yes, I'll be there. Yes, I'll be cheering for Canes. I'm sure some good natured, sportsmanlike taunting will go back and forth, and I'm looking forward to the experience. I've always had a great time at HSBC, and I don't expect that this will be any different.

[Knightrider]

She's right. :(

 

Alright, you guys. Stop it with the teasing. People have feelings, you know. I don't want anyone thinking I'm a jerk.

 

 

I was thinking long eared equine....

 

 

:D

[jad1]

Jeez, I gave myself away already?? :D

 

You can all attribute my request to avoid stereotyping the NC hockey fans, and to do Buffalo proud in the process, by assuming that I am a transplant to NC that has adopted a redneck lifestyle. You know nothing about me, or why I back the Canes, and it doesn't even matter so I won't explain.

 

What does matter is that each one of us has probably encountered people that roll their eyes at us when we say we are from Buffalo. We have all heard the weather jokes, the painful Bills jokes, the Polish jokes, the fat jokes...and we know this person obviously has no clue about why we actually love this city. I'd think that anyone that misrepresents Sabres fans and Buffalo residents, whether from Buffalo or not, by acting like boorish drunks would be offensive for any real, true passionate fan of the Sabres.

 

This wasn't a discussion on the pricing of tickets or about being fanatical for your team. If Canes managment priced out their fans, that's management's problem and Canes fans will be heard about that in the coming months. In the meantime, it worked out for the Sabres fans who can afford it to go to the games, so why complain?

 

And as for coming to HSBC - yes, I'll be there. Yes, I'll be cheering for Canes. I'm sure some good natured, sportsmanlike taunting will go back and forth, and I'm looking forward to the experience. I've always had a great time at HSBC, and I don't expect that this will be any different.

 

Sure we've all had the 'you're from Buffalo' experience, but we stand up for ourselves. We don't fall in with the 'anti-Buffalo' because a couple of fans got drunk during a playoff game, like you seem to be so willing to do.

 

I hate to tell you this, but if you team-swapped, you're not a real fan. Root for the Canes, you belong with them and their minor-league fans.

 

Honestly, if your looking for affordable and family-friendly entertainment, skip the NHL and go to the local dinner theatre prodcution of Cats.

 

You walked the halls of Memorial Auditorium as a child and now you're a Canes fan? Pathetic.

[inkman]

Jeez, I gave myself away already?? :D

 

 

So you are a Canes beat writer that has shacked up with a player? Just a thought... :)

 

Hey, if that is the case, at least you get to...uh...size up..the players before going out with them. :o

[CanesChic]

So you are a Canes beat writer that has shacked up with a player? Just a thought... :)

 

Hey, if that is the case, at least you get to...uh...size up..the players before going out with them. :o

 

:D Ok, we don't know each other. I actually thought you were friends with my brother and thats how you knew me. But no, I haven't shacked up with a player and am not a Canes beat writer.

 

With regards to being a Canes & Sabres fan - I think you'll find a lot of people who support two teams - one is the one they loved as a kid, and the other is the one that they love because they have a newer place of residence, follow a favorite player or see something in that team that resonates with them. Like another poster said, the Canes and Sabres playing against each other is a collision course we all saw coming - and it's either really great or really painful depending on how you look at it.

 

That being said, I'm getting back to hockey like KR suggested.

[Orange Seats]

You walked the halls of Memorial Auditorium as a child and now you're a Canes fan? Pathetic.

 

Right on.

 

 

(12:30, you can still get 8 seats lower level behiind goal.)

[Peace Frog]

 

With regards to being a Canes & Sabres fan - I think you'll find a lot of people who support two teams - one is the one they loved as a kid, and the other is the one that they love because they have a newer place of residence, follow a favorite player or see something in that team that resonates with them. Like another poster said, the Canes and Sabres playing against each other is a collision course we all saw coming - and it's either really great or really painful depending on how you look at it.

Bull Butter! I moved from Buffalo down here to Dallas back in '95 and I absolutely only root for the Sabres and the Bills. People I work with ask me all the time "Why don't you root for the Cowboys or Stars?"

 

Because I am a freaking Buffalo fan, that's why. You can take the fan out of Buffalo but you can't take Buffalo out of the fan. :angry:

[Taro T]

:D Ok, we don't know each other. I actually thought you were friends with my brother and thats how you knew me. But no, I haven't shacked up with a player and am not a Canes beat writer.

 

With regards to being a Canes & Sabres fan - I think you'll find a lot of people who support two teams - one is the one they loved as a kid, and the other is the one that they love because they have a newer place of residence, follow a favorite player or see something in that team that resonates with them. Like another poster said, the Canes and Sabres playing against each other is a collision course we all saw coming - and it's either really great or really painful depending on how you look at it.

 

That being said, I'm getting back to hockey like KR suggested.

You are pathetic.

 

Maybe when you come to the game Wednesday you can wear a Sabres sweatshirt under your Eric Cole sweater so you can take the Cole sweater off if the Canes are losing and put it back on if they are winning.

[CanesChic]

Bull Butter!

 

:D That's honestly funny. Never heard that before.

 

Because I am a freaking Buffalo fan, that's why. You can take the fan out of Buffalo but you can't take Buffalo out of the fan. :angry:

 

Okay, you don't think people can have reasons for liking/following another team? Here's an obvious example - what about Kevyn Adam's dad? I think it was the Buffalo paper that did a little feature on him. Lifelong avid Sabres fan, roots for them year in and year out. But his kid comes to play and he's rooting for the Canes. Does that make him not a Sabres fan? You don't think this series is hard on him, like he said?

 

I've lived all over the country. I still manage to get to a few Bills games every year, both in Buffalo and away. I've loved the Sabres, but this year I have my allegiances to the Canes. So what? I'm not judging the strength of your fanship, don't expect you to judge mine. Deal?

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

We could ask Jessica Alba and see what she thinks. :blush:

[wjag]

I haven't lived in WNY for 20+ years now. I chose to live in Maryland before they got the hated Ravens. I can't imagine rooting for any other teams, hell I am simply not able to. I too get asked why I don't switch allegiances and I simply say, I was born a Bills and Sabres fan. It wasn't what I chose, it was chose for me. It's a part of who I am. I simply don't have room for more than one favorite sports team to root for.

[BetweenThePipes00]

 

:D That's honestly funny. Never heard that before.

 

 

 

Okay, you don't think people can have reasons for liking/following another team? Here's an obvious example - what about Kevyn Adam's dad? I think it was the Buffalo paper that did a little feature on him. Lifelong avid Sabres fan, roots for them year in and year out. But his kid comes to play and he's rooting for the Canes. Does that make him not a Sabres fan? You don't think this series is hard on him, like he said?

 

I've lived all over the country. I still manage to get to a few Bills games every year, both in Buffalo and away. I've loved the Sabres, but this year I have my allegiances to the Canes. So what? I'm not judging the strength of your fanship, don't expect you to judge mine. Deal?

 

 

 

Unless you are the mother of someone on the Canes, don't compare yourself to Kevyn Adams' dad. Even he said it was a win-win ... it was like he couldn't bring himself to say he was rooting for his SON. You, on the other hand, essectially jumped on a bandwagon. I'm not judging, it's what you did. And it's OK. But don't call yourself a Buffalo fan. You are someone who used to live in Buffalo and still likes the Bills and Sabres sometimes. There is a difference. I have lived more than half my life outside of Buffalo and married a Pittsburgh fan. But it's all or nothing. I found no joy in the Steelers winning the Super Bowl.

 

Again, it's not WRONG, I'm not saying it is a character flaw, it's just that if you can root for another team like that, you don't have the same emotional investment the rest of us do. I realize that maybe we are the ones with the problem, but ... it is what it is.

[jad1]

I haven't lived in WNY for 20+ years now. I chose to live in Maryland before they got the hated Ravens. I can't imagine rooting for any other teams, hell I am simply not able to. I too get asked why I don't switch allegiances and I simply say, I was born a Bills and Sabres fan. It wasn't what I chose, it was chose for me. It's a part of who I am. I simply don't have room for more than one favorite sports team to root for.

 

Amen brother. The dream of all Sabres fans is to have the Cup on the steps of Buffalo City Hall, no matter where we live now.

[Taro T]

:D That's honestly funny. Never heard that before.

Okay, you don't think people can have reasons for liking/following another team? Here's an obvious example - what about Kevyn Adam's dad? I think it was the Buffalo paper that did a little feature on him. Lifelong avid Sabres fan, roots for them year in and year out. But his kid comes to play and he's rooting for the Canes. Does that make him not a Sabres fan? You don't think this series is hard on him, like he said?

 

I've lived all over the country. I still manage to get to a few Bills games every year, both in Buffalo and away. I've loved the Sabres, but this year I have my allegiances to the Canes. So what? I'm not judging the strength of your fanship, don't expect you to judge mine. Deal?

You just keep getting lamer and lamer with each passing post.

 

If you want to feel all warm and fuzzy, go back to your Canes board.

 

If you want to talk hockey, then continue on here, but stop trying to justify your decision to cheer for someone other than the Sabres. We aren't all going to get in a big circle and sing Kumbaya for you.

[CanesChic]

Unless you are the mother of someone on the Canes, don't compare yourself to Kevyn Adams' dad. Even he said it was a win-win ... it was like he couldn't bring himself to say he was rooting for his SON. You, on the other hand, essectially jumped on a bandwagon. I'm not judging, it's what you did. And it's OK. But don't call yourself a Buffalo fan. You are someone who used to live in Buffalo and still likes the Bills and Sabres sometimes. There is a difference. I have lived more than half my life outside of Buffalo and married a Pittsburgh fan. But it's all or nothing. I found no joy in the Steelers winning the Super Bowl.

 

Again, it's not WRONG, I'm not saying it is a character flaw, it's just that if you can root for another team like that, you don't have the same emotional investment the rest of us do. I realize that maybe we are the ones with the problem, but ... it is what it is.

 

 

Here is the thing - this is a message forum. I'm not judging your level of devotion, so please don't judge mine because you don't know me. You don't know what my reasons are for rooting for Carolina. I didn't "jump on a bandwagon" at all. Maybe there are emotional reasons you root for a team other than the Sabres? Maybe you admire, know, etc a player that you think deserves the Cup. Maybe your cousin plays for the team. Maybe you grew up with Kevyn - who knows..it's not for anyone to hold up a "Fandometer" and say you're in, or you're out.

 

I think this is a win-win too. I've said that all along. But it's a lose-lose too. If the Canes win, the city of Buffalo loses, and if the Canes lose - well, that's a bummer too for my own personal reasons.

 

And as for the Bills - a sometime fan? Never. I might live 3,000 miles away - but between the NFL package, my RealPlayer radio subscription, my trip to SD for the game and my trips to Buffalo for more, my sadly bittersweet Spikes jersey this year etc...no, I'm not a parttime Bills fan at all.

 

As for the kumbayah comment - you're the only one who has been antagonistic. Funny thing is, I think we actually know each other. And isn't that ironic?

[X. Benedict]

Here is the thing - this is a message forum. I'm not judging your level of devotion, so please don't judge mine because you don't know me. You don't know what my reasons are for rooting for Carolina. I didn't "jump on a bandwagon" at all. Maybe there are emotional reasons you root for a team other than the Sabres? Maybe you admire, know, etc a player that you think deserves the Cup. Maybe your cousin plays for the team. Maybe you grew up with Kevyn - who knows..it's not for anyone to hold up a "Fandometer" and say you're in, or you're out.

 

I think this is a win-win too. I've said that all along. But it's a lose-lose too. If the Canes win, the city of Buffalo loses, and if the Canes lose - well, that's a bummer too for my own personal reasons.

 

And as for the Bills - a sometime fan? Never. I might live 3,000 miles away - but between the NFL package, my RealPlayer radio subscription, my trip to SD for the game and my trips to Buffalo for more, my sadly bittersweet Spikes jersey this year etc...no, I'm not a parttime Bills fan at all.

I think you are a fascinating person.

[PASabreFan]

Hey! Woohoo! Over here! I was antagonistic! I told you to get lost! I do give you credit for sticking around this board, but I really wish you could get past your own personal little story and talk hockey. Just drop the name and get it over with. Or maybe you did. Big whoop.

 

You got off to a very rocky start on this board when you lectured us to be more intelligent and talk about hockey. I will give you the same challenge now.

[Taro T]

As for the kumbayah comment - you're the only one who has been antagonistic. Funny thing is, I think we actually know each other. And isn't that ironic?

Whatever.

 

I truly doubt that we know each other, but even if we do, that doesn't change the fact that out of your 13 posts exactly 2 have been hockey related.

 

As I have stated previously, if you want to talk hockey, fine, talk hockey.

 

If you want to keep up the coy little "I used to be a Sabres fan but now I root for the Canes because of something in my personal situation", take it back to the Canes board. Someone there may care that you are now a Canes fan, I don't think anyone here does.

[CanesChic]

Hey! Woohoo! Over here! I was antagonistic! I told you to get lost! I do give you credit for sticking around this board, but I really wish you could get past your own personal little story and talk hockey. Just drop the name and get it over with. Or maybe you did. Big whoop.

 

I was only responding to all this speculation - are you a mom, are you a journalist - who cares? I don't, and you don't so lets move on.

 

You got off to a very rocky start on this board when you lectured us to be more intelligent and talk about hockey. I will give you the same challenge now.

 

Great - because that was the reason that I ventured over here in the first place. I'm interested in knowing what the thoughts are on the Sabres fans' end about their banged up D. Personally, even though there has been all this hype about the attack offenses, which both are pretty similar, I'm focused on the fact that it's going to come down to whose D not only adjusts faster on the turnovers, but whose D has the stamina, health and speed to keep up in what looks like a 7 games series. The offenses are similar, the goaltending is similar, but it's the defense that is the differentiator here.

 

In all honesty, how confident are you in the Sabres D at this point? I'd give a healthy Sabres defense the edge over Carolina's lack of speed here any day, but I'm now of the belief that the injuries even us out. I'd love for you to weigh in, but it's OT so I'll let you decide where to do that.

[BetweenThePipes00]

 

I'm not judging your level of devotion, so please don't judge mine because you don't know me. You don't know what my reasons are for rooting for Carolina. I didn't "jump on a bandwagon" at all. Maybe there are emotional reasons you root for a team other than the Sabres? Maybe you admire, know, etc a player that you think deserves the Cup. Maybe your cousin plays for the team. Maybe you grew up with Kevyn - who knows..it's not for anyone to hold up a "Fandometer" and say you're in, or you're out.

 

I think this is a win-win too. I've said that all along. But it's a lose-lose too. If the Canes win, the city of Buffalo loses, and if the Canes lose - well, that's a bummer too for my own personal reasons.

 

 

 

 

I'm not judging ... I'm trying to explain to you that you do not have the same thing at stake here as we do ... you seem to want to keep arguing that you not only have it, but you have it on BOTH sides, and I am sying that is impossible.

 

 

 

See, if it is a win-win (or lose-lose as you said trying to straddle the fence), there is no devotion. That's what you don't seem to get. It's like saying you are still "devoted" to your spouse while cheating on them. NO, I'm not comparing the two things, just saying the nature and in fact very definition of the WORD "devotion" is that it is all or nothing. So I'm not judging the level of your devotion, just saying you have none. It's OK, you obviously have your reasons for rooting for the Canes, and they are surely good ones. But you can't possibly be living and dying with each shot like we are ... you are probably better off for it, but it's obviously just not in your personality.

[CanesChic]

Okay - so here is the thing. The more I thought about it, I'm very lucky this year. I have something to cheer for no matter the outcome of this series. Yes, my heart will break for one side as well, but the upside is my "season" doesn't end at the end of this series no matter what. (Better not "end" after Cxp games either, but Edmonton - WTF?? :-))

 

Anyway, I put myself in the shoes of - okay, if a Miami Dolphins fan said they liked both, how would I feel...and you know, I'd feel like you do. I guess because I am IN the situation its easy for me to comprehend.

 

So anyway, I'm letting this rest. It was an interesting conversation for me, and thanks for pointing out your side pretty eloquently.

[jad1]

I was only responding to all this speculation - are you a mom, are you a journalist - who cares? I don't, and you don't so lets move on.

Great - because that was the reason that I ventured over here in the first place. I'm interested in knowing what the thoughts are on the Sabres fans' end about their banged up D. Personally, even though there has been all this hype about the attack offenses, which both are pretty similar, I'm focused on the fact that it's going to come down to whose D not only adjusts faster on the turnovers, but whose D has the stamina, health and speed to keep up in what looks like a 7 games series. The offenses are similar, the goaltending is similar, but it's the defense that is the differentiator here.

 

In all honesty, how confident are you in the Sabres D at this point? I'd give a healthy Sabres defense the edge over Carolina's lack of speed here any day, but I'm now of the belief that the injuries even us out. I'd love for you to weigh in, but it's OT so I'll let you decide where to do that.

 

In playoff hockey, teams often have resorted to using 4 or 5 defensemen. It's called "shortening the bench" (some new vocabulary for you newbies). If Teppo's out, and it looks like he is, the Sabres will play Janek 7 or 8 minutes tops. Depending on the situation, they'll mix and match their D men throughout the game. Both teams are well rested right now, so fatigue is not a factor.

 

Not really all that big a deal. They put the game away against the Canes with 5 d-men in game 1.

 

And I wouldn't count on this being a 7 games series. Canes lose tonight, they'll be lucky to extend it to 5. Don't make the mistake of comparing the Sabres to the Canadiens, tonight is crucial for your new favorite team.

[inkman]

Okay - so here is the thing. The more I thought about it, I'm very lucky this year. I have something to cheer for no matter the outcome of this series. Yes, my heart will break for one side as well, but the upside is my "season" doesn't end at the end of this series no matter what. (Better not "end" after Cxp games either, but Edmonton - WTF?? :-))

 

Anyway, I put myself in the shoes of - okay, if a Miami Dolphins fan said they liked both, how would I feel...and you know, I'd feel like you do. I guess because I am IN the situation its easy for me to comprehend.

 

So anyway, I'm letting this rest. It was an interesting conversation for me, and thanks for pointing out your side pretty eloquently.

 

I think you officially are getting less respect in this forum than I do, and that is saying a lot. :huh: (although I'm starting to think it's warranted) :(