Rob defends Terry

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

You are  always seeking distracting inconsequential side issues in order to avoid the ugly issue of a generation of failure. The central issue that you often refuse to face is the record. When you close your eyes you will not be able to see.

 

I'm not denying the record. I'm pointing out what people really want when they say they want Terry to speak. They want to ridicule him, not that anything is stopping them now. But they want fresh material.

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

Where do you get the notion that people want to see him get in front of the mike in order for him to publicly embarrass himself? Where do you come up with such nonsense? It's recognized that he's not much of a public speaker. So what! That's not a big deal to most people. That isn't the reason why the overwhelming majority of people have so much scathing criticism of him. As you note, people are clamoring for him to hire competent staff and then give them enough resources to adequately do their jobs. Retaining KA, after six years of abject failure, is the source of much of the criticisms directed toward this owner. The problem has nothing to do with how he speaks as it is how he acts. The record speaks for itself! 

PTR just has a habit of putting down the fan base.   Most fans lack his level of sophistication to fully comprehend these complex situations. 

[JohnC]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

I'm not denying the record. I'm pointing out what people really want when they say they want Terry to speak. They want to ridicule him, not that anything is stopping them now. But they want fresh material.

There are people who would love to see Terry P publicly embarrassed at the podium because of his unpolished speaking ability. That ridiculing group make up a small/minuscule faction of the audience who want to see him ACT more judiciously. 

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

PTR just has a habit of putting down the fan base.   Most fans lack his level of sophistication to fully comprehend these complex situations. 

I’m a proud member of the moron class. I still have the ability to recognize when someone is peeing on me and not blame the non-existent rain on a sunny day. 😇

[PromoTheRobot]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

There are people who would love to see Terry P publicly embarrassed at the podium because of his unpolished speaking ability. That ridiculing group make up a small/minuscule faction of the audience who want to see him ACT more judiciously. 

Well if and when he does make a public statement, we'll find out just how "few" of those people there are.

5 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

PTR just has a habit of putting down the fan base.   Most fans lack his level of sophistication to fully comprehend these complex situations. 

I don't put the fan base down. I just won't follow the groupthink. And that irks people. Dissent is irksome.

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Well if and when he does make a public statement, we'll find out just how "few" of those people there are.

It doesn’t matter how few or many people will be snickering in the crowd. What matters to the most of us is what the owner does to help this floundering franchise get on the right track.

Edited 18 hours ago by JohnC

[SwampD]

5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Well if and when he does make a public statement, we'll find out just how "few" of those people there are.

I don't put the fan base down. I just won't follow the groupthink. And that irks people. Dissent is irksome.

So is whistling past the graveyard.

[JohnC]

9 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Well if and when he does make a public statement, we'll find out just how "few" of those people there are.

I don't put the fan base down. I just won't follow the groupthink. And that irks people. Dissent is irksome.

What’s irksome is not the dissent as it is the perplexing reasoning. 🙃

[PromoTheRobot]

48 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What’s irksome is not the dissent as it is the perplexing reasoning. 🙃

Exactly my point. I'm not following along.

[...]

Re: Pegula and speaking in public:

"Ce qu’on conçoit bien s’énonce clairement, Et les mots pour le dire arrivent aisément."

"Style is the physiognomy of the mind… A messy style therefore reveals a messy mind."

"Quo modo scribit, sic et cogitat."

"If language is not correct, then what is said is not what is meant; if what is said is not what is meant, then what must be done remains undone."

[Flashsabre]

I listened to a Paul Hamilton interview on WGR and was shocked by the candor. He called the team a joke and said Adams needed to be fired immediately. Very refreshing to hear. Said the fans would burn the arena to the ground if they signed Adams to an extension

One thing he said that blew my mind was that the Sabres have only ever hired 2 GMs with previous NHL GM experience. Imlach was GM of the Leafs before they hired him and Bowman was GM of the expansion Blues before Buffalo hired him. 
 

What is this franchise’s issue with hiring experienced GMs?

[Doohickie]

15 hours ago, kas23 said:

Doesn’t Terry sign Rob Ray’s paycheck…?

[Doohickie]

2 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Said the fans would burn the arena to the ground if they signed Adams to an extension

Terry's thinking... "Well that's one way to get a new arena" and prepares Adams' next contract.

[Thorny]

20 hours ago, JohnC said:

You don't need Terry Pegula to have a press conference.  You need him to take meaningful actions to change the middling course of this franchise. According to Paul Hamilton on WGR, the hiring and retaining KA as the GM is and was an inexplicable mistake. 

In the first segment of this link, Paul Hamilton talks about the necessity of the owner to fire the GM, sooner rather than later. And Paul H. talks about how the Sabres are considered as a joke franchise by the rest of the league. The problem with this perplexing owner is not his not talking as it is his not acting when it is required. 

 https://www.audacy.com/podcast/the-jeremy-joe-show-9b4b9/episodes/hour-2-owen-and-paul-on-the-sabres-ot-win-and-sal-on-the-bills-heading-into-week-15-c27d4

Good post and link, cheers

When someone like Hamilton says this, who’s generally so reluctant in my recollection from taking an outright stance against something the team is doing (probably at the fear of being lumped in a “reactionary” with the fans), it generally means something 

Adams’ time as GM could finally be at an end 

the bit about not getting distracted by solitary wins over Edmonton, Vancouver is so key. If Adams isn’t getting extended, how could you possibly let him navigate the deadline, etc. They are just wasting crucial time by keeping him in the position. 

19 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

He doesn't have to sell the team, just leave management to someone skilled and get out of the way. But also spend enough money to do it right.

This 

Edited 2 hours ago by Thorny

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

I listened to a Paul Hamilton interview on WGR and was shocked by the candor. He called the team a joke and said Adams needed to be fired immediately. Very refreshing to hear. Said the fans would burn the arena to the ground if they signed Adams to an extension

One thing he said that blew my mind was that the Sabres have only ever hired 2 GMs with previous NHL GM experience. Imlach was GM of the Leafs before they hired him and Bowman was GM of the expansion Blues before Buffalo hired him. 
 

What is this franchise’s issue with hiring experienced GMs?

Actually I have to correct Paul Hamilton - Imlach is the only one and he was hired as both GM and HC.  Punch was hired by Seymour Knox.   Mr Knox also retained Fred Hunt from the AHL Bisons as the AGM.  Hunt was a long time Buffalo hockey presence - first as an AHL player, then coach, and he eventually became the Bisons GM.  As the Sabres AGM he ran the minor league club in Cincinnati and led them to a Calder Cup in just a few years.  

Bowman was hired as HC and GM, but Bowman was not the GM at Montreal.  Buffalo was his first GM gig in the NHL.  So Hammy needs to relook at this.  

Gerry Meehan was next.  He went to law school after playing and then was hired by the Sabres into their legal department, then he worked the hockey FO, then eventually be became the GM. 

John Muckler was the HC in Edmonton and came to Buffalo as GM/HC.

Darcy Regier was an AGM before the GM at Buffalo. He held the job for 16 years, through Rigas, Golisano, and the first year or two of the Pegulian Reign.  Darcy predicted the suffering in Buffalo as he walked out the door.  

After that we have had Terry Pegula running hockey operations, hiring friends, a few former Sabres, and a few Pittsburghers.   Pegula had Regier, LaFontaine/Murray, Botterill, and Adams as GM.   

[Thorny]

17 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

My continued theory has been that Pegula is a well-intentioned idiot.

He loves his teams and is a fan of said teams but as a fan he also wants to have his hands on them like any fan would.

His Sabres issue is that he trusts KA for unknown reasons and KA likely spins a grand story to protect his employment. Pegula doesn't trust the NHL's suggestions while being equally deluded into his own competence which only is reinforced by KA. 

This is also a good point.

It’s the inverse of “what could Kevyn have even done?”

KA *indeed* spins a tale to Terry and apparently has proven capable of convincing him: the issue is Adams’ main goal, while masquerading as something else, simply remains job security. As people keep saying, one of the most important duties of the GM is massaging the relationship with the owner and convincing him of the correct course of action. Adams simply has no desire to help Terry find the correct path 

Edited 2 hours ago by Thorny

[Thorny]

17 hours ago, Sidc3000 said:

I absolutely feel he doesn’t care. What has Terry done that shows he cares? A new roof and scoreboard? Hiring people on the cheap?  

Pegula doesn’t actually need to be in control, he needs to be able to *tell himself* he’s in control. This is the psyche of the rich. This is the burden of the GM 

He needs just enough for that plausible internal deniability that he’s letting anyone down 

[Thorny]

16 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I'm not denying the record. I'm pointing out what people really want when they say they want Terry to speak. They want to ridicule him, not that anything is stopping them now. But they want fresh material.

The problem is lumping everyone into “people.” Too broad a brush. There are definitely folks that want what you are detailing…it’s just not anywhere close to uniform 

Edited 2 hours ago by Thorny

[bunomatic]

20 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

He's a terrible speaker and would likely say something that would come off the wrong way, which is why some people want him to speak. So they can embarrass him further.

He doesn't have to sell the team, just leave management to someone skilled and get out of the way. But also spend enough money to do it right.

The people don’t or won’t embarrass Terry further, this is on him.

[Pimlach]

31 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This is also a good point.

It’s the inverse of “what could Kevyn have even done?”

KA *indeed* spins a tale to Terry and apparently has proven capable of convincing him: the issue is Adams’ main goal, while masquerading as something else, simply remains job security. As people keep saying, one of the most important duties of the GM is massaging the relationship with the owner and convincing him of the correct course of action. Adams simply has no desire to help Terry find the correct path 

I think Adams has the desire to fix things. 

Adams has not shown the know-how (see goaltending, roster construction, coach selection, and the inability to make big trades or sign big UFAs).   At the same time Adams has had two big factors working against him.   The first being that the Sabres perception around the league has been trashed.  The second are Terrys internal requirements including operation under EEE.  Despite what he says in defense of Terry there was an internal cap and there is still no willingness to fire people that are on contract.  

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I think Adams has the desire to fix things. 

Adams has not shown the know-how (see goaltending, roster construction, coach selection, and the inability to make big trades or sign big UFAs).   At the same time Adams has had two big factors working against him.   The first being that the Sabres perception around the league has been trashed.  The second are Terrys internal requirements including operation under EEE.  Despite what he says in defense of Terry there was an internal cap and there is still no willingness to fire people that are on contract.  

Adams’ moves haven’t been great by his larger issue is lack of action and that’s tied to his slow play approach that favours job security above all else. His inability to adjust on the fly when there finally apparently is some sort of bare minimum expectation points to his failings in the other areas. 

I have zero sympathy for the “reputation around the league” when Adams has presided over 2x the drought than any other GM, and because the real reputation hit began with his enacted “want to be here” rebuild and the torching of the Eichel asset. Adams bares plenty of original sin blame.

As for EEE, Terry and Kevyn are part and parcel. The idea as much as anything was borne out of the task Terry appointed KA to of spying on the team while Botterill was still in charge. Adams is the guy who said “I can build a team under those terms” when even Jason told them to kick rocks 

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Actually I have to correct Paul Hamilton - Imlach is the only one and he was hired as both GM and HC.  Punch was hired by Seymour Knox.   Mr Knox also retained Fred Hunt from the AHL Bisons as the AGM.  Hunt was a long time Buffalo hockey presence - first as an AHL player, then coach, and he eventually became the Bisons GM.  As the Sabres AGM he ran the minor league club in Cincinnati and led them to a Calder Cup in just a few years.  

Bowman was hired as HC and GM, but Bowman was not the GM at Montreal.  Buffalo was his first GM gig in the NHL.  So Hammy needs to relook at this.  

Gerry Meehan was next.  He went to law school after playing and then was hired by the Sabres into their legal department, then he worked the hockey FO, then eventually be became the GM. 

John Muckler was the HC in Edmonton and came to Buffalo as GM/HC.

Darcy Regier was an AGM before the GM at Buffalo. He held the job for 16 years, through Rigas, Golisano, and the first year or two of the Pegulian Reign.  Darcy predicted the suffering in Buffalo as he walked out the door.  

After that we have had Terry Pegula running hockey operations, hiring friends, a few former Sabres, and a few Pittsburghers.   Pegula had Regier, LaFontaine/Murray, Botterill, and Adams as GM.   

I saw this online but didn’t Bowman take over GM duties in st Louis? 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Actually I have to correct Paul Hamilton - Imlach is the only one and he was hired as both GM and HC.  Punch was hired by Seymour Knox.   Mr Knox also retained Fred Hunt from the AHL Bisons as the AGM.  Hunt was a long time Buffalo hockey presence - first as an AHL player, then coach, and he eventually became the Bisons GM.  As the Sabres AGM he ran the minor league club in Cincinnati and led them to a Calder Cup in just a few years.  

Bowman was hired as HC and GM, but Bowman was not the GM at Montreal.  Buffalo was his first GM gig in the NHL.  So Hammy needs to relook at this.  

Gerry Meehan was next.  He went to law school after playing and then was hired by the Sabres into their legal department, then he worked the hockey FO, then eventually be became the GM. 

John Muckler was the HC in Edmonton and came to Buffalo as GM/HC.

Darcy Regier was an AGM before the GM at Buffalo. He held the job for 16 years, through Rigas, Golisano, and the first year or two of the Pegulian Reign.  Darcy predicted the suffering in Buffalo as he walked out the door.  

After that we have had Terry Pegula running hockey operations, hiring friends, a few former Sabres, and a few Pittsburghers.   Pegula had Regier, LaFontaine/Murray, Botterill, and Adams as GM.   

Bowman was the GM in St. Louis.

And Regier didn't say there'd be suffering on his way out.  He said it as he began the tank.  BIG difference.

Edited 1 hour ago by Taro T

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Bowman was the GM in St. Louis.

And Regier didn't say there'd be suffering on his way out.  He said it as he began the tank.  BIG difference.

There’s also no way he imagined this level of it 

[Taro T]

19 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

My continued theory has been that Pegula is a well-intentioned idiot.

He loves his teams and is a fan of said teams but as a fan he also wants to have his hands on them like any fan would.

His Sabres issue is that he trusts KA for unknown reasons and KA likely spins a grand story to protect his employment. Pegula doesn't trust the NHL's suggestions while being equally deluded into his own competence which only is reinforced by KA. 

The bolded is why this kid is on the anti-Forton bandwagon.  Pegula HAS to talk to people besides just Adams and SOMEBODY is telling him, yeah, you're right, Adams is a nice guy that has a good plan that will work if given enough time.  Forton would seem to be that guy that Pegula trusts who's pumping Adams tires.