What To Do With UPL?

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

What's upls GSAx from last year and this year?

What's his GSAx for his NHL career and his AHL career?  My guess is that those numbers are piss poor as well.

[Dryballs]

UPL has shown what he is. Trade him and go with Lyon/Ellis. I just don’t have any confidence that UPL can be the consistent, stable player that they have been waiting for him to become. 

[Broken Ankles]

How about combining this thread with the Owen Power thread.  Trade Power, Krebs, UPL and a protected first for Andersson, Coleman and Kadri.  Add scoring, grit and Right handed two way Defensemen while jettisoning your overpaid #3 goaltender.  Calgary doesn’t care as they are bottoming out. 

[clink]

8 hours ago, msw2112 said:

In hindsight, most here agree that the Sabres overreacted to UPL's great half-season in 2024 when they gave him the big contract and made him the unquestioned starter.  Would it also be an overreaction to dump UPL after Lyon has played well for 3 weeks?  And Ellis played well in ONE start?  UPL was bad last year, and I just had a feeling that he would not be able to step up and hold the lead in the last Toronto game.  Sadly, he proved me right.  The Toronto tying goal could have/should have been stopped and, while it's true that stopping a Hall of Fame forward on a breakaway in OT is a lot to ask, sometimes your goalie has to make a big play for the team to win the game, and UPL did not have it in him.

So what I'm saying is that I'm not super high on UPL right now, but getting rid of him at this point because Lyon has played well for 3 weeks and Ellis for 1 game would be an overreaction.  They need to roll with 3, as bad as that might be, and see how things shake out.  UPL is STILL only 25, and many goalies don't hit their prime until closer to 30 (and some after 30).

NOT if you believe in momentum (per, you're response to dumping UPL being an "overreaction") 

They're playing like a team that's finding a new, and different identity when either Lyon, or Ellis is in net. And that identity is a VERY enjoyable/likeable one, IMO 

UPL starts and you can see the warts start to come out, after he lets in his obligatory softies. It's Groundhog Day in Hell

We've seen PLENTY of what this team is like when Mega Meh is the starting goaltender, and by plenty I mean plenty ENOUGH!!! Plenty enough to know I DON'T EVER want/need to see that version of my beloved Sabres, again. It's a mission that should have been aborted last off-season IMO

Only because GM Adams is a gimp, and is generally sucky at his assignment, are we threatened with the "stylings" of mr moody blue, and his deflating/demoralizing influence. He's a total DOWNER, and it's contagious AF!!!

It's like a bad relationship that's gone on for FAAAAARRRRR too long!!! The bad FAR outweighs ANY good that may come from continuing the relationship.

IDK about any of the potential negative consequences that come with the UPL-less option. I'll take the chaos, as that is, at the very least, entertaining, and at best, it is something that we've not seen around these parts for a VERY, VERY, VERY long time! Something, that has a near ZERO percent chance of happening if Adams chooses the "safe"/"comfortable" option. He's not in any position to play it safe. He's found a spark in the two, new guys. Now is the time to hope that spark becomes a big bright burning fire!!!

Saturday made all of this, sooooo painfully obvious. The frigging UPL-led outcome was as predictable as it was aggravating. 

BOTH sides are going to be MUCH better off, when their relationship is permanently severed. NOTHING good has come from playing this bum, and I'm extremely confident in saying that ANY future involving UPL as a Sabre = NOTHING good coming!!! 

For the sake of his teammates, the tortured fans of this franchise, AND the entirety of Western NY; GET THIS SIEVE AS FAR TF AWAY FROM THIS FRANCHISE AS FAST AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE!!!! 

1 minute ago, Broken Ankles said:

How about combining this thread with the Owen Power thread.  Trade Power, Krebs, UPL and a protected first for Andersson, Coleman and Kadri.  Add scoring, grit and Right handed two way Defensemen while jettisoning your overpaid #3 goaltender.  Calgary doesn’t care as they are bottoming out. 

That was the literature version of Viagra, my dude!!! 😃

If only there was a possibility of it becoming reality!!! 

 

 

[clink]

8 hours ago, sabresouth said:

I am convinced that the team doesn't play the same in front of UPL. I think he has let them down too many times. The team is just starting to play the right way. I don't want to see them slip back into how they played last year. Which is what happens when UPL let's in a soft goal. I was surprised they even made it to OT. I really don't want UPL playing any games. Play Lyon, Ellis and Lev. It's all on ka that we are in this "hope our goalies keep us in it" crap. I am so tired of ka's too little too late mentality. 

THIS!!! 

1,000,000,000,000,000²% THIS!!!!

[clink]

14 hours ago, Mr. MVP said:

I’m sure this has been said but I don’t have the time today to read the whole thread. 
But it’s been ONE GAME for Ellis and UPL.  The likely odds are Ellis won’t keep playing as good as he did in his one game.  UPL may or may not play as bad as he did in his one game. 
 

It's what his playing does to the team that's beyond concerning 

He drags the whole effing GD operation down to his foggy/funky/downer level

He KILLS hope/momentum/progress/etc 

Have you not seen enough of this team with him in net, yet? 

There's a LOT more to lose in playing UPL than there is to win in playing UPL

Unless, he instantly becomes prime Dominic Hasek (and you know that isn't EVER happening)  

 

[sabresouth]

31 minutes ago, clink said:

NOT if you believe in momentum (per, you're response to dumping UPL being an "overreaction") 

They're playing like a team that's finding a new, and different identity when either Lyon, or Ellis is in net. And that identity is a VERY enjoyable/likeable one, IMO 

UPL starts and you can see the warts start to come out, after he lets in his obligatory softies. It's Groundhog Day in Hell

We've seen PLENTY of what this team is like when Mega Meh is the starting goaltender, and by plenty I mean plenty ENOUGH!!! Plenty enough to know I DON'T EVER want/need to see that version of my beloved Sabres, again. It's a mission that should have been aborted last off-season IMO

Only because GM Adams is a gimp, and is generally sucky at his assignment, are we threatened with the "stylings" of mr moody blue, and his deflating/demoralizing influence. He's a total DOWNER, and it's contagious AF!!!

It's like a bad relationship that's gone on for FAAAAARRRRR too long!!! The bad FAR outweighs ANY good that may come from continuing the relationship.

IDK about any of the potential negative consequences that come with the UPL-less option. I'll take the chaos, as that is, at the very least, entertaining, and at best, it is something that we've not seen around these parts for a VERY, VERY, VERY long time! Something, that has a near ZERO percent chance of happening if Adams chooses the "safe"/"comfortable" option. He's not in any position to play it safe. He's found a spark in the two, new guys. Now is the time to hope that spark becomes a big bright burning fire!!!

Saturday made all of this, sooooo painfully obvious. The frigging UPL-led outcome was as predictable as it was aggravating. 

BOTH sides are going to be MUCH better off, when their relationship is permanently severed. NOTHING good has come from playing this bum, and I'm extremely confident in saying that ANY future involving UPL as a Sabre = NOTHING good coming!!! 

For the sake of his teammates, the tortured fans of this franchise, AND the entirety of Western NY; GET THIS SIEVE AS FAR TF AWAY FROM THIS FRANCHISE AS FAST AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE!!!! 

That was the literature version of Viagra, my dude!!! 😃

If only there was a possibility of it becoming reality!!! 

 

 

An orator I am not. You said this way better than I did. This is what I was trying to say. We take a step backward when upl plays. We can't afford any regression. 

 

[Cranky old man]

UPL should not have played, especially after the auspicious debut by Ellis. What was the rush? Considering how few games the team has won in recent years, it’s just malpractice by the coaching staff. We can’t afford to piss away points. UPL showed once again, he is not trustworthy in high leverage situations. Play the best players! Ellis showed grit, he should be rewarded. Instead they play poopy diaper. Out the door with this dingus. 

Edited Tuesday at 04:18 AM by Cranky old man

[clink]

1 hour ago, sabresouth said:

An orator I am not. You said this way better than I did. This is what I was trying to say. We take a step backward when upl plays. We can't afford any regression. 

 

What's important is that WE feel it

You KNOW the players feel it 

Hopefully, mgmt can feel it too???

Toxic contracts/blind loyalty/unca Terry's pride be damned!!! The time for change is..... NOW!!!!!!!!! 

 

Even if Lyons/Ellis turn out to be made of iron sulfide, they are STILL the better option IMO, for no other reason than they aren't UPL 

[Archie Lee]

17 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What's his GSAx for his NHL career and his AHL career?  My guess is that those numbers are piss poor as well.

I acknowledge that what follows is presented “in defence of UPL”. Not as a blanket defence, though. I’ve clearly seen, as we all have, that his game has fallen apart since Dec/Jan of last season. What remains to be seen, for me anyway, is whether the game in Toronto is a new season one-off or an extension of last year. Can he get his game back?  Anyway, here goes (all GSAx stats from MoneyPuck):

- Since 20-21, the year UPL first played an NHL game, he has played in 156 games, that’s about 38% of “goalie games” by a Sabre goalie in that period (not just games started, but any appearance). UPL has played the most of any goalie. 

- In that time, Sabre goalies are -45.9 in GSAx, or they have given up 46 more goals than expected. UPL is -8.1, or 8 more goals than expected.  So, on balance he has outplayed the field.  

- For some context, in Eric Comrie’s time in Buffalo, he had an GSAx of -9.8, while in his time in Winnipeg the year before coming to Buffalo and the last two years, he is a combined +15.1

- Further context.  In Ullmark’s Sabre career (going back long before UPL debuted), he was a combined -29.1 in 117 games. Since he left Buffalo he is +73.3

None of this is a reason to play UPL now. The goalie playing the best needs to be in the net. 

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, Cranky old man said:

UPL should not have played, especially after the auspicious debut by Ellis. What was the rush? Considering how few games the team has won in recent years, it’s just malpractice by the coaching staff. We can’t afford to piss away points. UPL showed once again, he is not trustworthy in high leverage situations. Play the best players! Ellis showed grit, he should be rewarded. Instead they play poopy diaper. Out the door with this dingus. 

Ellis had a back issue

[GASabresIUFAN]

40 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I acknowledge that what follows is presented “in defence of UPL”. Not as a blanket defence, though. I’ve clearly seen, as we all have, that his game has fallen apart since Dec/Jan of last season. What remains to be seen, for me anyway, is whether the game in Toronto is a new season one-off or an extension of last year. Can he get his game back?  Anyway, here goes (all GSAx stats from MoneyPuck):

- Since 20-21, the year UPL first played an NHL game, he has played in 156 games, that’s about 38% of “goalie games” by a Sabre goalie in that period (not just games started, but any appearance). UPL has played the most of any goalie. 

- In that time, Sabre goalies are -45.9 in GSAx, or they have given up 46 more goals than expected. UPL is -8.1, or 8 more goals than expected.  So, on balance he has outplayed the field.  

- For some context, in Eric Comrie’s time in Buffalo, he had an GSAx of -9.8, while in his time in Winnipeg the year before coming to Buffalo and the last two years, he is a combined +15.1

- Further context.  In Ullmark’s Sabre career (going back long before UPL debuted), he was a combined -29.1 in 117 games. Since he left Buffalo he is +73.3

None of this is a reason to play UPL now. The goalie playing the best needs to be in the net. 

What you’re saying is UPL is the best of an all time terrible lot featuring Comrie, Anderson, Tokarski, Dell, Reimer, Subban, Hutton, Houser, Johansson, and Levi.  His xGSA is also buoyed by his one good season.  What’s his xGSA without that season.  -25, -30, worse? 

UPL is a below average goalie who needs to be moved so management can see if Ellis or Levi is the longterm answer in net.

[Archie Lee]

28 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What you’re saying is UPL is the best of an all time terrible lot featuring Comrie, Anderson, Tokarski, Dell, Reimer, Subban, Hutton, Houser, Johansson, and Levi.  His xGSA is also buoyed by his one good season.  What’s his xGSA without that season.  -25, -30, worse? 

UPL is a below average goalie who needs to be moved so management can see if Ellis or Levi is the longterm answer in net.

Context and nuance are not for everyone. Agreed though, now is not the time to worry about feelings and futures..

Edited Tuesday at 01:54 PM by Archie Lee

[LGR4GM]

Upl's GSAx last year:

-8.6

Reimer 

+8.0

[GASabresIUFAN]

11 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Upl's GSAx last year:

-8.6

Reimer 

+8.0

…. and behind the Sabres lousy defense.  That illustrates why UPL isn’t good enough.  
 

We are getting good play from Lyon.  Let him run with it if he can.  

Edited Wednesday at 01:30 AM by GASabresIUFAN

[Porous Five Hole]

14 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Behind the Sam’s lousy defense.  Why should expect him to be better.  We are getting good play from Lyons.  Let him run with it if he can.  

His name is Lyon 

[DarthEbriate]

I'd give Luukkonen a two-week conditioning assignment of 3 AHL starts to ensure he was back to health and recovered properly after each game and saw a variety of shots and net-front traffic, with...  oh.

 

 

Now that the monster exists, I guess Ruff just rides the Llyon (a Fflam never falters!) into the ground and then pick your poison on the two guys who've been sitting around barely used for weeks.

If you try to go with a 3-man rotation, even with the condensed schedule, none of them are going to get into a groove.

But what they should do: Dress 'em all! Treat them like pitchers. Lyon starts every game. Luukkonen gets the 2nd for the long change. Ellis gets all penalty shots. Luukkonen is on the bench during PP/PK where you need stickhandling/passing and then the reactions to handle shorthanded breakaways/rush chances. Switch them on the fly like a regular line change. Revolutionize the game.

Edited Tuesday at 05:53 PM by DarthEbriate

[Rip Titwide]

3 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

His name is Lyon 

Perhaps elsewhere, it should be pointed out the proper spelling of KESSEL-RING

[SwampD]

I guess they have hand the net back to UPL when he’s ready, now. I saw nothing from Lyon that showed he won the starter’s job away from him.

[msw2112]

Sadly, Lyon's performance in the Boston game last night was not a whole lot different from a typical UPL performance.  He made some saves, he let in some goals that most goalies would let in.  When push came to shove, he was not able to make the biggest saves when needed.  He was not a difference maker in the game.

I fully agree that Lyon was a difference maker in some of the early games (including games they lost where he kept them in the game when the had no business being in it).  That said, Lyon is an OK NHL goalie who had a hot run.  I don't think he can be counted on to be the full-time starter for the rest of the season.

I suppose that you could argue that what Lyon gives is equivalent to what UPL gives, at a much cheaper salary, and use that to justify trying to move on from UPL.

Ellis is interesting, because he's only played 1 NHL game.  Nobody really knows what he is or what he could become.  He has proven talent at the AHL level and played well in his one NHL start.

In the end, I think we're stuck with the 3-headed monster for a while.  And while I realize that these guys are largely hung out to dry in the 3 on 3 OTs, wouldn't it be something if a Sabres goalie, ANY Sabres goalie, made a key game-saving save in an OT period?  Somehow the opponents are able to get those saves when the Sabres get the breakaway or 3 on 1 in OT, but the Sabres are not.  Maybe the Sabres shooters are just not very good....

Edited 4 hours ago by msw2112

[Scottysabres]

I think he’d look great in a Sharks jersey, the sound of the ocean gently rolling on to the beach would go a long way in soothing his mind.

[Pimlach]

Does anyone know who the backup goalie was in the Boston game? 

I missed the very start.   I was thinking Boston would be a good game for Ellis to play.  

Is the Ellis back problem gone?  

[Jorcus]

34 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Does anyone know who the backup goalie was in the Boston game? 

I missed the very start.   I was thinking Boston would be a good game for Ellis to play.  

Is the Ellis back problem gone?  

UPL was the back up.

[Pimlach]

27 minutes ago, Jorcus said:

UPL was the back up.

So Ellis is the decoy?