Sabres' value and revenue

[Pimlach]

On 10/2/2025 at 2:57 PM, shrader said:

What’s the timeline on all of this? Given the 14 year drought, I’d at least question whether or not it hurt the product on the ice. You can’t break something that’s already broken. 

The topic was Sabres total payroll and I mentioned that they gutted the entire organization since Covid and the departure of Botts, and upon the arrival of Adams.  True enough, the entire 14 years of Pegula hockey has been a shambles.   

Adams traded Reinhart and Eichel, lost Montour, Ullmark and McCabe - all of that hurt the product on the ice.   Paying Muel, Cozens, and Power and consistently icing very young teams far under the cap - that hurt.  Peterka wanting out is another sign of problems.  If this year is another bust then there will be more "Peterka's" wanting out.  

 

Edited 2 hours ago by Pimlach

[RangerDave]

Just as "expenses" are probably more than just player and employee salaries and benefits (advertising, travel, taxes, rent, etc.), I assume "revenue" is more than just ticket sales and TV broadcasting revenue.  Things like merchandising, sponsorships, food sales, etc.  It woul dbe really interesting to see all of the expenses and all of the revenues.

[ska-T Palmtown]

lol - it is like you folks have never heard of Google. Forbes does all this work for you. This is from 2022-23, but feast thine eyes:

Red circle, operating income - 2024 was $13M, 2023 was $25M, and 2022 was $22M

The fine print in the first part implies that the $13M is after payroll, taxes, and arena expenses. It also notes, that is NOT inclusive of the Kraken fee ... which was $1B/30 so ... $30M per team.

The Sabres have not lost money since Covid. Pleez Stahp!!!!

[mjd1001]

There are some people as they get older, they sense their mortality and get desperate to leave a mark that they can be remembered by. They try to do big things. If they own a sports team, they'll throw everything at it to try to get that championship. 

Then there are others who as they get older do almost the opposite. They get cheaper, more frugal, they look at their bank account or their net worth every single day and don't want to take chances with their wealth. 

I've always gotten the sense that Terry Pegula is more of the second as he gets older and not even close to the first.

He has the money, so how do you explain when he bought the team... No expense will be spared... Money is not an issue... Going to the relative penny pinching of the past 5 years? 

If he truly believed now what he said when he bought the team, even during covid, there would not have been any gutting of the hockey department or layoffs like they went through, and even if that did happen, things would have certainly been fixed immediately when the league came back.

Edited 3 hours ago by mjd1001

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

lol - it is like you folks have never heard of Google. Forbes does all this work for you. This is from 2022-23, but feast thine eyes:

Red circle, operating income - 2024 was $13M, 2023 was $25M, and 2022 was $22M

The fine print in the first part implies that the $13M is after payroll, taxes, and arena expenses. It also notes, that is NOT inclusive of the Kraken fee ... which was $1B/30 so ... $30M per team.

The Sabres have not lost money since Covid. Pleez Stahp!!!!

On top of that, Terry spent about 200 million to buy the team. It's worth 1 billion more now. Terry would have to be losing 75 million a year or so to actually have a bad investment. And that's every year. 

[Pimlach]

9 hours ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

lol - it is like you folks have never heard of Google. Forbes does all this work for you. This is from 2022-23, but feast thine eyes:

Red circle, operating income - 2024 was $13M, 2023 was $25M, and 2022 was $22M

The fine print in the first part implies that the $13M is after payroll, taxes, and arena expenses. It also notes, that is NOT inclusive of the Kraken fee ... which was $1B/30 so ... $30M per team.

The Sabres have not lost money since Covid. Pleez Stahp!!!!

Having a good finance guy on the staff is a nice.  

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

There are some people as they get older, they sense their mortality and get desperate to leave a mark that they can be remembered by. They try to do big things. If they own a sports team, they'll throw everything at it to try to get that championship. 

Then there are others who as they get older do almost the opposite. They get cheaper, more frugal, they look at their bank account or their net worth every single day and don't want to take chances with their wealth. 

I've always gotten the sense that Terry Pegula is more of the second as he gets older and not even close to the first.

He has the money, so how do you explain when he bought the team... No expense will be spared... Money is not an issue... Going to the relative penny pinching of the past 5 years? 

If he truly believed now what he said when he bought the team, even during covid, there would not have been any gutting of the hockey department or layoffs like they went through, and even if that did happen, things would have certainly been fixed immediately when the league came back.

But yet he is the opposite with the Bills.  His problems with the Sabres stem from these things:  

1.   He thinks he knows the game

2.  He gets infatuated with people he knows and likes

3.  He does not fit into or trust the NHL establishment and feels they led him astray. 
 

Just curious, are you retired yet?  

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

There are some people as they get older, they sense their mortality and get desperate to leave a mark that they can be remembered by. They try to do big things. If they own a sports team, they'll throw everything at it to try to get that championship. 

Then there are others who as they get older do almost the opposite. They get cheaper, more frugal, they look at their bank account or their net worth every single day and don't want to take chances with their wealth. 

I've always gotten the sense that Terry Pegula is more of the second as he gets older and not even close to the first.

He has the money, so how do you explain when he bought the team... No expense will be spared... Money is not an issue... Going to the relative penny pinching of the past 5 years? 

If he truly believed now what he said when he bought the team, even during covid, there would not have been any gutting of the hockey department or layoffs like they went through, and even if that did happen, things would have certainly been fixed immediately when the league came back.

Sometimes explanations are simpler than one might expect. The problem isn't so much about the amount of money he spent as it is in the decisions being made. The owner came in gangbusters thinking that throwing money around would give his team instant credibility. What he learned is spending money foolishly, no matter what the amount is, is simply wasting money. The owner has made a number of bad decisions, especially in staffing. And to compound the problem, this self-made billionaire is a stubborn man who was inclined to double down rather than alter course. The reality is that this franchise is structured the way he wanted it and is staffed the way he wanted it. Ineptitude is ineptitude. He has sabotaged himself. Has he learned from his mistakes? Maybe so. I'm not really sure because this fellow with the off big boat doesn't talk much.  

[mjd1001]

50 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

But yet he is the opposite with the Bills.  His problems with the Sabres stem from these things:  

1.   He thinks he knows the game

2.  He gets infatuated with people he knows and likes

3.  He does not fit into or trust the NHL establishment and feels they led him astray. 
 

Just curious, are you retired yet?  

No, not retired.

[dudacek]

If you zoom way out to look at his record overall in sports, Pegula isn’t cheap, he just over-reacted to COVID and draws lines over arbitrary things.

I also think his reputation for interference  is over-wrought. It’s more about capriciousness again, combined with hiring poor managers, who have also been unskilled at managing their boss.

In 14 years he’s yet to fire someone for failing to ice a good team, despite never icing a good team.

His biggest flaw is he’s never been about winning.