GDT: Kraken @ Sabres - Tues. 7 pm ET, Jan 9, 2024 MSG-B, ROOT-NW, ESPN+, Sportsnet+ 📺 WGR 📻

[Doohickie]

9 hours ago, pastajoe said:

They should try Tage or Casey with Quinn and Peterka. Cozens isn’t doing anything to help them.

Well we know that Casey works with Tuch and Skinner, so maybe Tage between JJP and Quinn, which would help cover for Tage's defensive gaffs.

[sabrefanday1]

5 hours ago, SabreFinn said:

I finally got to see someone get really pissed off! Yes!! Dahlin broke his stick in anger efter Krakens fifth goal! There is still hope!

Yeah that was how Jack started and soon he wanted out...the endless cycle of losing obviously gets to a player and he loses his sense of why they even play the sport. Clearly losing is not fun and wears on a guys mind to the point where they just need OUT. Dahlin will no doubt be next... rinse and repeat over and over again

Edited January 10 by sabrefanday1

[sabresouth]

11 minutes ago, sabrefanday1 said:

Yeah that was how Jack started and soon he wanted out...the endless cycle of losing obviously gets to a player and he loses his sense of why they even play the sport. Clearly losing is not fun and wears on a guys mind to the point where they just need OUT. Dahlin will no doubt be next... rinse and repeat over and over again

This is sad, but it is coming unless major changes are made for next season with goaltending and grit with skill. 

I did not like the Thompson line. We basically had Greenway as a third liner with arguably our best forward. Makes no sense.

[SabresVet]

1 hour ago, Believer said:

Granato needs to be replaced now… Let an experienced NHL winning head coach bring in his own staff… and use the remainder of this season to evaluate players and install a new system… Pegula needs to ante up…

If Adams won’t replace Granato, Pegula should replace Adams as well…

For all those who will bemoan another rebuild, we have most of the pieces to dominate the Division for years… The Sabres just need new team leadership with a winning pedigree…

And a committed owner.

Mid-season is a good time to make some hard conclusions:

Adams isn't going to fire Granato with 2 years left on his deal after this season because it'd signal the rebuild is failing.  That is, unless there's a catastrophic streak of bad like Krueger had and Terry allows it.  

And Pegula isn't going to fire Adams primarily because the owner doesn't know anyone and even if he did, they wouldn't work here under the limitations imposed by the owner and his meddling.    

Ironically, hiring Kevyn Adams was/is not all that different than Ralph Wilson's final few GM hires for the Bills.  All clearly out of their depth and expertise and all failed miserably as most rational people expected.  They were hired not for the acumen as sports executives, but because the owner was comfortable with them. 

A shake-up is needed now.  But it ain't coming.    

[apuszczalowski]

2 hours ago, Believer said:

A few weeks ago when there was still hope the Sabres could make the playoffs (there isn’t, so let’s stop kidding ourselves), I posted I would stop commenting on every mistake during a game and every miserable defeat after a game like last night…

I failed to live up to my word, much like Adams and Granato.

Granato needs to be replaced now… Let an experienced NHL winning head coach bring in his own staff… and use the remainder of this season to evaluate players and install a new system… Pegula needs to ante up…

If Adams won’t replace Granato, Pegula should replace Adams as well…

For all those who will bemoan another rebuild, we have most of the pieces to dominate the Division for years… The Sabres just need new team leadership with a winning pedigree…

And a committed owner.

It doesn't have to be a 'Rebuild', they already have alot of pieces and alot of young talent and picks, its time to start using them to obtain players who will help know and not hoarding them because they 'need to look at the future'. They need a coaching staff and GM that can take whats here and turn them around with a few moves and better leadership

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, Believer said:

A few weeks ago when there was still hope the Sabres could make the playoffs (there isn’t, so let’s stop kidding ourselves), I posted I would stop commenting on every mistake during a game and every miserable defeat after a game like last night…

I failed to live up to my word, much like Adams and Granato.

Granato needs to be replaced now… Let an experienced NHL winning head coach bring in his own staff… and use the remainder of this season to evaluate players and install a new system… Pegula needs to ante up…

If Adams won’t replace Granato, Pegula should replace Adams as well…

For all those who will bemoan another rebuild, we have most of the pieces to dominate the Division for years… The Sabres just need new team leadership with a winning pedigree…

And a committed owner.

While this is all true who is going to work for Adams, or Terry for that matter?  
 

Look up the group of guys Vegas and Seattle teams hired to run their hockey operations and coach their teams.  Now look at the Sabres.  It starts there.  
 

Edited January 10 by Pimlach

[MISabresFan]

13 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

While this is all true who is going to work for Adams, or Terry for that matter?  
 

Look up the group of guys Vegas and Seattle teams and see who they hired to run their hockey operations and coach their teams.  Now look at the Sabres.  It starts there.  
 

In a way, it's like watching those cooking, best chef reality shows.  One I watched all had the same ingredients but different people designing and cooking the food.  the results varied from good to bad.

 

[SabreFinn]

2 hours ago, sabrefanday1 said:

Yeah that was how Jack started and soon he wanted out...the endless cycle of losing obviously gets to a player and he loses his sense of why they even play the sport. Clearly losing is not fun and wears on a guys mind to the point where they just need OUT. Dahlin will no doubt be next... rinse and repeat over and over again

To react like Jack is one way to react. My hope is that Dahlins reaction is he start pushing himself and his teammates a bit more, they get a bit more angry on the ice, a little bit more aggressive. But it is a very small step between that and getting frustrated. Just like between being aggressive in the right way and the wrong way

[#freejame]

1 minute ago, SabreFinn said:

To react like Jack is one way to react. My hope is that Dahlins reaction is he start pushing himself and his teammates a bit more, they get a bit more angry on the ice, a little bit more aggressive. But it is a very small step between that and getting frustrated. Just like between being aggressive in the right way and the wrong way

Something I’ve been thinking about is when would Dahlin have ever been a leader? He was consistently the youngest player on all of his teams growing up. Was immediately in the NHL as the youngest player. Even now he’s still incredibly young. None of those scream leadership opportunities. It would not/does not surprise me if that’s not a role he’s accustom to playing. 

[PASabreFan]

Dahlin's been muttering of late as well 

We know the signs.

Crazy eyes in three two...

[SabreFinn]

33 minutes ago, #freejame said:

Something I’ve been thinking about is when would Dahlin have ever been a leader? He was consistently the youngest player on all of his teams growing up. Was immediately in the NHL as the youngest player. Even now he’s still incredibly young. None of those scream leadership opportunities. It would not/does not surprise me if that’s not a role he’s accustom to playing. 

I guess we are hoping for him to be the leader. Or someone else. Someone from the big group of young players. If no one does that in this situation we are in big trouble. If the young guns start to raise their voices, there might come something really good out of this bad season.

[rickshaw]

5 hours ago, Night Train said:

I read this morning the Sabres would have to go something like 28-10-3 the remainder of the year to sniff the playoffs.

Looks like another indifferent non-playoff year for the organization. Don't change anything. Just buy tickets. 

The nhl and their stupid sometimes 2 pt sometimes 3 pt games will keep the illusion that the Sabres can make the dance but we won’t get close. My guess is we get 80 pts.

another year of waiting. On the upside, no stress.

[SabresVet]

2 hours ago, SabreFinn said:

To react like Jack is one way to react. My hope is that Dahlins reaction is he start pushing himself and his teammates a bit more, they get a bit more angry on the ice, a little bit more aggressive. But it is a very small step between that and getting frustrated. Just like between being aggressive in the right way and the wrong way

Dahlin does not need, nor should be expected to do anything more than play hard as an example to other players.  And even then with the lack of effort around him, I wouldn't be surprised if he asks what the heck it's all for.  In any workplace for that matter, if it takes fellow employees to motivate underachieving ones, that's a problem with management, not those other employees.    

Don Granato and his minor league assistants have the responsibility to motivate whether players are on league minimum or long-term guaranteed contracts. 

Bigger issue is, why is Adams evaluating players positively who then turn around and display less than expected effort?  Is that an individual player issue, the coach(es), the GM's bad evals or a combination? 

Edited January 10 by SabresVet

[Mango]

5 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Well we know that Casey works with Tuch and Skinner, so maybe Tage between JJP and Quinn, which would help cover for Tage's defensive gaffs.

I feel like JJP and Mitts were on a line for a bit this season with either the Benson or Greenway injuries and it went well. 

Moral of the story is that Mitts is probably our best player right now. 

[SabreFinn]

32 minutes ago, SabresVet said:

Dahlin does not need, nor should be expected to do anything more than play hard as an example to other players.  And even then with the lack of effort around him, I wouldn't be surprised if he asks what the heck it's all for.  In any workplace for that matter, if it takes fellow employees to motivate underachieving ones, that's a problem with management, not those other employees.    

Don Granato and his minor league assistants have the responsibility to motivate whether players are on league minimum or long-term guaranteed contracts. 

Bigger issue is, why is Adams evaluating players positively who then turn around and display less than expected effort?  Is that an individual player issue, the coach(es), the GM's bad evals or a combination? 

When going through Stanley cup winners I do not find any team without a strong leadership within the group. And players with a strong desire for winning. But ofcourse they have good coaching also.

And if a player not is motivated to play in the best hockey league in the world,  then they should be traded no matter how talented the player is and how much salary they get!

[mjd1001]

Ok I rewatched the highlights from the game last night and looked at the goals allowed:

1st goal allowed: TERRIBLE.  A couple awful plays by Greenway here to start, but a lot of sloppy play in the defensive zone. Greenway with the puck behind the net, does he not see the opposing player or just doesn't care? Anyway, he almost has the puck taken away from him and at the last minute just tries to shovel it forward to Power on the boards. Power can't control it so tries to chip it to Johnson (what are they BOTH doing in the exact same spot?) But its ok, it goes to the center of the ice, right on Krebs stick, but he loses it to...no one? But that is OK, it goes right onto Bensons stick with no one around him and he loses it to...no one? (By the way, Greenway is already out of the zone closing in on center ice waiting for the breakaway pass?)  Puck goes right to the defender (who has ZERO problem controlling it on his stick unlike the Sabres clowns who look like they are using sticks curved the wrong way)  Shot is taken, Tolvanen and Gourde are both uncovered (neither D-man picks up the guy in front of the net who is just standing there right in front of the goalie, and then Tolvanen comes in uncovered down the near side....Greenway's side of the ice but he is gliding back into the zone)   Power has to make a tough choice...cover Tolvanen or Gourde....he does NEITHER, instead standing there looking at the shooter the same way 2 other Sabres are doing the same.  Greenway makes the first mistake and doesn't stay in the zone to cover his side. Power makes a bad play on the boards and then covers NO-one on his side of the ice. Both Benson and Krebs can't control a simple loose puck.  If ANY of those things change, the goal doesn't get scored.

2nd goal allowed:  I want my goalie to make that save, but they are a LITTLE un-discipline on the PK (not awful, but not good)  The one good thing about having Tage out there is he doesn't move much (thats a good thing) as he lets his reach and size cover the ice. Without moving much, everyone can hold their position.  Here, Cozens starts by going down low a LITTLE too much to chase a puck he had no chance of getting to...which allows the puck to go back to the point where the guy there has PLENTY of time to get the puck, control it, and see the entire ice because Cozens is now 20+ feet from him. After a little puck movement, Cozens collapses too far down low when 2 sabres D-men were already there, allowing the guy in his zone to have plenty of time to make the pass that led to the goal.  I want my goalie to make the save there, but this Sabes team does a LOT better on PK when they make no moves toward the puck at all, just hold their position and let the other team pass it around the perimeter. Cozens wasn't as bad as he usually is, but again, his inability to control himself from chasing pucks he wont get too leaves open spots in the ice for the other team to take advantage of.

3rd goal allowed: Dahlin takes a chance on stealing the pass at center ice and misses.  Power over-commits to the far side of the ice and can't get back to properly defend the 2-on-1. Goal.  75% on Dahlin, 25% on Power in my view for being so far out of position. This one is on the D, not the forwards.

4th goal allowed:  Tip in which is tough...but the tip comes from the center of the Ice. Mitts is playing center, he turns when he gets back down deep, but shows ZERO effort to go back to the center of the ice where it is WIDE OPEN.  Not sure if he would have gotten there to prevent the goal, but he did a 'Cozens' here and got out of position and left the center of the ice (the prime scoring zone) wide open with no one there to defend. 

5th goal allowed:  I want that save made, but Krebs does the stick wave on his guy when entering the zone, Greenway and Krebs just gliding back into the zone.  Benson is approaching the OPPOSING blue line when the puck is clearly going back into the D-zone.  I might have liked Dahlin to go more aggressively toward the goal scorer, but another good example of how the D is hung out to dry by the forwards.  It is basically a 3-on-2 against the Sabres because although Krebs and Greenway ARE in the defensive zone..they are both gliding/coasting, making ZERO effort to take one of the Seattle forwards.  Eberle cuts right to the front of the net just a stride or two ahead of Krebs, but Krebs makes ZERO effort to tie him up. The Sabres D has this done to them all the time by their own forwards....they can't aggressively take the wingers into the boards because they cannot rely on the Sabres forward to cover....in this case look at the replay and you can see exactly that with Krebs.

Krebs, Greenway, Benson, and Power had AWFUL games, or at least were awful on the goals allowed.  Cozens get off the PK, the PK box collapses almost every time here is out there and that leads to goals against also.  Mitts with a gaffe (leaving center of the ice open on a goal) too.

 

Edited January 11 by mjd1001

[SabresVet]

2 hours ago, SabreFinn said:

When going through Stanley cup winners I do not find any team without a strong leadership within the group. And players with a strong desire for winning. But ofcourse they have good coaching also.

And if a player not is motivated to play in the best hockey league in the world,  then they should be traded no matter how talented the player is and how much salary they get!

Leadership and self-motivation are two entirely different things.  A guy with the "C" or "A" can play hard every night, get after guys who aren't, and take tough questions for why they lost after the game without other players buying in.  It's up to management to remove or temporarily sit those who don't play hard.  

It's why Adams' insistence that he wanted players who wanted to be here seems absurd now.  The guys he locked up want to be here...but some aren't getting it done.  Players typically want to be here when the team is winning...and this one isn't.       

There are guys who just drift around who are still on the ice and no one in management seems to care.  Nor is trading them a realistic solution because many of them are signed long-term with high cap figures.  And mid-season, deals are harder to make with more teams up against the cap.  It becomes a buyers market and the seller's pay a steep premium.  

Other people have asked an important question as this season devolves: maybe they didn't need to lock up some guys until they'd done a little more in their careers to justify big money.  But that can happen when a GM is focused on culture and no one holds players accountable.  

[Wyldnwoody44]

Full on mutiny in 3..2...1

Edited January 11 by Wyldnwoody44

[SabreFinn]

14 hours ago, SabresVet said:

Leadership and self-motivation are two entirely different things.  A guy with the "C" or "A" can play hard every night, get after guys who aren't, and take tough questions for why they lost after the game without other players buying in.  It's up to management to remove or temporarily sit those who don't play hard.  

It's why Adams' insistence that he wanted players who wanted to be here seems absurd now.  The guys he locked up want to be here...but some aren't getting it done.  Players typically want to be here when the team is winning...and this one isn't.       

There are guys who just drift around who are still on the ice and no one in management seems to care.  Nor is trading them a realistic solution because many of them are signed long-term with high cap figures.  And mid-season, deals are harder to make with more teams up against the cap.  It becomes a buyers market and the seller's pay a steep premium.  

Other people have asked an important question as this season devolves: maybe they didn't need to lock up some guys until they'd done a little more in their careers to justify big money.  But that can happen when a GM is focused on culture and no one holds players accountable.  

I totally agree that it might have been stupid to sign players on long term contracts for big money. I do not like that at all. You should be hundred percent syre before you do that, it might spoil many years if it goes wrong.

[sabrefanday1]

I don't know about thsi motivation thing being on the coach...I am no big Leaf fan but clearly their big guns are motivated as they just score like every game. Their coach is awful and not any better then Meatballs, yet he seems to get them to play motivated and want to win. Mind you, as I said, he is not a great coiach and the Leafs defense is probably worse then ours overall. I think "motivation" is on the players as much if not more then the coach...

[Spoonman]

On 1/9/2024 at 9:11 AM, PASabreFan said:

Mr. Gorbachev tear down this thread title.

Hey there @PASabreFan

I am not sure if you saw it, admins took it down when I checked last night.

I was having fun back with your tear down post with a fake GDT with a "totalitarian state" theme..... 

Love your humor! 

Go Blades!

p.s. tried to message you, but you don't have permissions set to receive....

Edited January 11 by Spoonman