Time for Leadership Change - Trade KO and Give Dahlin the C

[Quint]

Sometimes a C ruins a player. Too much responsibility. Some players would rather just play and not have that additional weight on their shoulders. The Sabres have had  a poor track record in the Pegula era and any captain would take on all that losing and to turn it around would be a monumental task. I don't think Dahlin is that guy. I think he'd rather just play. Perreault was the same way. The last good Sabres captains I remember were Peca and Drury. But the team already had something going. But that's the type of player I'd look for ... clutch, durable, functional and with leadership. Tuch IMO might be that guy but he gets hurt too much. 

I'm firmly in the camp of baffled with this team. Captain of a sinking ship...tough decision.. btw I don't think KO would be wanted by any other team in a trade.

[PASabreFan]

I see nothing about Dahlin that screams C.

[Thorny]

8 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

I see nothing about Dahlin that screams C.

The fact he’s being paid more than anyone else, far and away? One would think that necessarily means they consider him our most important player, internally. Can’t see why on earth you’d give 11 million dollars to a guy if you DIDN’T think he was that, and could wear the C. It’s merely a ceremonial designation, after all. If we can’t strap the C to him after already strapping the franchise to him, what are we even doing here? Bigger problems type stuff.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Thorny

[Marvin]

Just musing: it occurs to me with not having good enough veterans for the youngsters to overcome is that the room lacks mid-range veterans to reinforce what the leaders are saying, particularly now among the forwards.  A few more accomplished, sage voices in the room would help when adversity hits.

[In The Buff]

On 12/15/2023 at 9:30 AM, klos1963 said:

He was a free agent, we didn't trade for him.

acquired him, sorry. I'd like to respond to some other part of your reply, but the main part was missing 😛

Edited December 18, 2023 by In The Buff

[klos1963]

18 hours ago, In The Buff said:

acquired him, sorry. I'd like to respond to some other part of your reply, but the main part was missing 😛

That's all I had, I was going to ask what part of the trade didn't you like, but that wouldn't have been nice. 

[Pimlach]

On 12/17/2023 at 5:10 PM, Thorny said:

The fact he’s being paid more than anyone else, far and away? One would think that necessarily means they consider him our most important player, internally. Can’t see why on earth you’d give 11 million dollars to a guy if you DIDN’T think he was that, and could wear the C. It’s merely a ceremonial designation, after all. If we can’t strap the C to him after already strapping the franchise to him, what are we even doing here? Bigger problems type stuff.

Agree but let’s add that he has taken a beating to get to this point and he came out stronger.  He stood on his own and he pushed back and has earned respect in the league.   There was no help for him either.   Not like the GM getting Horton to teach Schoeny.  

Dahlin is a Norris Level player, a premiere talent, and he is still just getting started.  His contract tracks with his play and his worth.  

Edited December 19, 2023 by Pimlach

[PASabreFan]

On 12/17/2023 at 6:10 PM, Thorny said:

The fact he’s being paid more than anyone else, far and away? One would think that necessarily means they consider him our most important player, internally. Can’t see why on earth you’d give 11 million dollars to a guy if you DIDN’T think he was that, and could wear the C. It’s merely a ceremonial designation, after all. If we can’t strap the C to him after already strapping the franchise to him, what are we even doing here? Bigger problems type stuff.

I don't think it's merely ceremonial. Captains deal with officials, are the bridge between the players and coaches, are the face of the franchise in good times and bad, deal with the media and more.

13 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Agree but let’s add that he has taken a beating to get to this point and he came out stronger.  He stood on his own and he pushed back and has earned respect in the league.   There was no help for him either.   Not like the GM getting Horton to teach Schoeny.  

Dahlin is a Norris Level player, a premiere talent, and he is still just getting started.  His contract tracks with his play and his worth.  

Does team success play into this at all or will it always be a matter of, They didn't put enough around him?

[Pimlach]

15 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

 

Does team success play into this at all or will it always be a matter of, They didn't put enough around him?

If team success played into it all then we would not have had a Captain since Drury/Briere we allowed to leave.  Almost half of the NHL would not have Captains either.  

As for Dahlin, why are you being negative?  Or, why are you asking questions you already know the answer too? 

Do you think they put enough around him so far?  Do you think the Sabres have supported the young players that they developed?   

If you cannot see that he is the best choice then make another recommendation rather than asking cryptic questions.  

[PASabreFan]

12 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

If team success played into it all then we would not have had a Captain since Drury/Briere we allowed to leave.  Almost half of the NHL would not have Captains either.  

As for Dahlin, why are you being negative?  Or, why are you asking questions you already know the answer too? 

Do you think they put enough around him so far?  Do you think the Sabres have supported the young players that they developed?   

If you cannot see that he is the best choice then make another recommendation rather than asking cryptic questions.  

Poor writing on my part. I had moved on from Dahlin as captain to Dahlin's worth. Does Dahlin's worth involve team success?

[Pimlach]

3 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Poor writing on my part. I had moved on from Dahlin as captain to Dahlin's worth. Does Dahlin's worth involve team success?

It depends.  Does McDavid's worth involve team success?  Is McDavid better than Eichel?   Look who has a Cup.  

Dahlin alone is not going to get you there.   My gold standard defenseman is still Bobby Orr.  He had a lot of help.  So did Robinson, Potvin, Coffey, Lidstrom, etc.

Dahlin would be a key piece of the puzzle, but he alone won't give you team success.  

[nfreeman]

On 12/17/2023 at 6:10 PM, Thorny said:

The fact he’s being paid more than anyone else, far and away? One would think that necessarily means they consider him our most important player, internally. Can’t see why on earth you’d give 11 million dollars to a guy if you DIDN’T think he was that, and could wear the C. It’s merely a ceremonial designation, after all. If we can’t strap the C to him after already strapping the franchise to him, what are we even doing here? Bigger problems type stuff.

 

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

I don't think it's merely ceremonial. Captains deal with officials, are the bridge between the players and coaches, are the face of the franchise in good times and bad, deal with the media and more.

Does team success play into this at all or will it always be a matter of, They didn't put enough around him?

I don't think it's merely ceremonial either.  Beyond the factors PA cited, I think it matters to the players in that they take their cues first and foremost from the captain.

I also think, without doing a minute of homework, that on most teams the captain isn't the best player.

[Doohickie]

most important player =/= captain.

I don't get captain vibes from Dahlin.  I don't think he wants it, I don't think the team would respond well to it. I think he sets a good example to follow but I feel that somehow making him captain would ruin that.

I will also acknowledge that the vibes I'm talking about may simply be cultural differences.  Cozens or Tuch act like captains to me, but maybe Dahlin would be better.  I think part of being a captain is being a motivator and I think Tuch and Cozens exude that more than Dahlin.  Overt motivation might be different from motivation by example and maybe a more understated style from Dahlin might still be effective.

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, Doohickie said:

most important player =/= captain.

I don't get captain vibes from Dahlin.  I don't think he wants it, I don't think the team would respond well to it. I think he sets a good example to follow but I feel that somehow making him captain would ruin that.

I will also acknowledge that the vibes I'm talking about may simply be cultural differences.  Cozens or Tuch act like captains to me, but maybe Dahlin would be better.  I think part of being a captain is being a motivator and I think Tuch and Cozens exude that more than Dahlin.  Overt motivation might be different from motivation by example and maybe a more understated style from Dahlin might still be effective.

Cozens cares enough to someday be a Captain.  But he is not ready and he does not yet act like one. 

Proof is losing his cool and picking a fight with a heavyweight (Hathaway), then slamming things on his way to the locker room for repairs.   That is caring, but still acting like a young player and not doing anything that was actually effective, the game was over. 

Next he went a rant after another loss, saying not enough "F" in their game.    Two games later the team was playing the same way.   The folks on TNT actually laughed at that comment (although they agreed with it). 

Cozens has potential to be a good Captain.  Consistent play, caring, holding others accountable, and setting an example by his own ACTIONS - that is what it takes.  He is not there yet, but he might be someday.  

 

[Peter]

On 12/14/2023 at 10:42 AM, GASabresIUFAN said:

There have been 4 players all season who have played with effort every night.  Their names are Dahlin, Mittelstadt, Benson and Peterka.  Injuries have slowed a few key guys (TNT, Cozens and Tuch), but their efforts have been lacking many nights when they are in the lineup.   Outside Dahlin, the other D have been consistently inconsistent.

It's time to make a change in the leadership.  Time to trade KO and let him hook up with a team heading to the playoffs.  It's also now time to make this Dahlin's team.  He is the team's best player, most consistent contributor, and toughest competitor.  

 

You are questioning the effort of someone who had a life threatening (or at least quality of life threatening) injury while playing for our team and is universally respected by his teammates?!?

 

Hmmm. 

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Peter