Around the NHL 2023-24 Season

[French Collection]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

It was a few years ago, but someone put out an article that in the games the missed (small-ish sample size of coure), Draisaitl's production dropped only a little bit without McDavid, while McDavid has a slightly larger percentage of production drop without Draisaitl.  This of course was in the years a little while ago when McDavid missed more games, but I think the Sample size was close to 50 games.

Basically, he was a point per game player still in games where McDavid didn't play.  A drop-off, but not a huge one.

 

I guess there are similarities with Crosby and Malkin. Malkin has won scoring titles and an MVP but Crosby always gets the press. Crosby is the better player imo but Malkin could have been the big man on campus elsewhere.

[Brawndo]

 

[Thorny]

5 hours ago, John Tucker said:

All I remember is that Bennett couldn't do a single pullup at the combine!  I think that helped sway everyone in Reinhart's direction

Ya I think Bennett had a shoulder injury which resulted in that 

4 hours ago, French Collection said:

I guess there are similarities with Crosby and Malkin. Malkin has won scoring titles and an MVP but Crosby always gets the press. Crosby is the better player imo but Malkin could have been the big man on campus elsewhere.

Crosby’s dominant 2-way game sets him apart 

[French Collection]

1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

 

So, after he gets help, is he worth taking a shot at for grit, leadership and a winning pedigree?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

7 minutes ago, French Collection said:

So, after he gets help, is he worth taking a shot at for grit, leadership and a winning pedigree?

Depends on how long he needs to be in whatever treatment he requires.

Also, he is a dirty player, so no thanks.

I wish him all the best in his recovery and treatment, but it may be time for him to retire as part of that treatment.  He is 35 years old, or will be soon.

[Thorny]

10 minutes ago, French Collection said:

So, after he gets help, is he worth taking a shot at for grit, leadership and a winning pedigree?

We won’t add anyone until the deadline at earliest 

[dudacek]

20 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We won’t add anyone until the deadline at earliest 

Not sure why you seem so strong on this being a particular Adams trait.

First of all, it is a general NHL trait that very little player movement occurs league-wide between the start of the season and approaching the trade deadline – largely because of the salary cap and the fact teams are so tight against it.

Secondly Adams added Tyson Jost (as well as Greenway and Stillman at the deadline) last year and Christian Wolanin, Alex Tuch and Peyton Krebs the year before. His previous season was COVID hell. And he apparently wanted to add Patrick Kane this season.

To me, his track record looks pretty typical for NHL GMs in terms of his approach to in-season moves. This is hardly Botterill and the CHL.

Edited November 30, 2023 by dudacek

[Thorny]

41 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Not sure why you seem so strong on this being a particular Adams trait.

First of all, it is a general NHL trait that very little player movement occurs league-wide between the start of the season and approaching the trade deadline – largely because of the salary cap and the fact teams are so tight against it.

Secondly Adams added Tyson Jost (as well as Greenway and Stillman at the deadline) last year and Christian Wolanin, Alex Tuch and Peyton Krebs the year before. His previous season was COVID hell. And he apparently wanted to add Patrick Kane this season.

To me, his track record looks pretty typical for NHL GMs in terms of his approach to in-season moves. This is hardly Botterill and the CHL.

- - - 

On 11/29/2023 at 2:06 PM, Thorny said:

Ya Greenway to me was a deadline deal 

Edit: yes, it was on deadline day like I mentioned 

 

22 hours ago, Thorny said:

It’s not semantics, because in my original post I made a caveat for trade deadline and you still issued the greenway correction 

The correction doesn’t apply because I already thought of him and had him under the deadline designation 

already mentioned I forgot about Jost 

 

On 11/28/2023 at 7:27 PM, Thorny said:

Ya, Jost was a waiver claim. So I was wrong about him.

But I still maintain we won’t see a trade in season before the deadline. Likely ever. You have to think, there’s few trades league wide in general during that time. Not until deadline usually. You DO see some moves and you CAN make them but their rarity illustrates even the more neutral GMs (patient vs aggressive wise) aren’t generally making trades during the time period. And I think it’s fair to say our GM leans a little bit away from neutral on that scale 

because it’s what I think will happen? 

Your “first of all” paragraph there in bold is already something I got to first, which I suppose helps answer your question as it’s informing my stance. I bolded it above.

As for your next point, I addressed that as well (italicized in your post and two times in mine above). I already included a caveat for deadline deals. Again, informing my stance

Do I think we will see a trade before the deadline because of the anomaly of the Jack Eichel situation? No

There’s Jost. Yes I already backed down from that, I could see an equally trivial waiver wire add 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Thorny

[dudacek]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

- - - 

 

 

because it’s what I think will happen? 

Your “first of all” paragraph there in bold is already something I got to first, which I suppose helps answer your question as it’s informing my stance. I bolded it above. But thanks for the refresher 

As for your next point, I addressed that as well (italicized in your post and two times in mine above). I already included a caveat for deadline deals. Again, informing my stance

Do I think we will see a trade before the deadline because of the anomaly of the Jack Eichel situation? No

There’s Jost. Yes I already backed down from that, I could see an equally trivial waiver wire add 

 

 

The point of interest to me is whether or not you think Adams has a default position of reluctance when it comes to making in-season moves that is significantly different than that of his peers.

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

The point of interest to me is whether or not you think Adams has a default position of reluctance when it comes to making in-season moves that is significantly different than that of his peers.

Urgh I tried to edit the “thanks for reminder” bit out, it was dickish. Too quick 

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

The point of interest to me is whether or not you think Adams has a default position of reluctance when it comes to making in-season moves that is significantly different than that of his peers.

I mean, ya? Do you think it’s fair to classify him as more conservative relative to average in making trades, just in general? My sense is yes. I see no reason why that wouldn’t also apply to in season 

[Thorny]

I don’t know if there’s a quick way to check but yes my sense is he’s more conservative than average. We made few moves this past offseason. I know movement isn’t crazy in the league in general but I think re: actual trades we’d be below average 

[Thorny]

We haven’t acquired a player via trade since greenway 

6 trades for nhl players since KA started his rebuild (post Stall / Hall). 2 were in dealing away Eichel and Ristolainen. Which I think can be fairly classified as special circumstance deals. The dumping of the old core. Not likely to be replicated in volume. 

We traded Lazar for Bjork, we traded…nothing (future consid.)? lol for Will Butcher, and then Stillman and Greenway. Only Stillman and Greenway have been traded for since dealing Eichel. 

I don’t know for certain without looking up all the teams but my sense is we’d be on the low end 

could be wrong. just don’t think so 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Thorny

[Brawndo]

 

[Thorny]

Dreger just said on TSN that Buffalo is open for business to add a forward right now but are ok with being patient about it 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Thorny

[Crusader1969]

12 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Dreger just said on TSN that Buffalo is open for business to add a forward right now but are ok with being patient about it 

Stop being so patient!  Let's Go!! 

[Taro T]

26 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Dreger just said on TSN that Buffalo is open for business to add a forward right now but are ok with being patient about it 

Did he also get the scoop that water above 32 F is still wet?

Edited November 30, 2023 by Taro T

[Flashsabre]

I’m surprised at how little Zadorov got in return. I was expecting a first or decent prospect.

[Flashsabre]

31 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Dreger just said on TSN that Buffalo is open for business to add a forward right now but are ok with being patient about it 

Once again Dreger with the in depth scoops: “a forward”

Some context would be nice: top 6 scoring winger, bottom 6 defensive forward with grit, bottom 6 defensive centre with faceoff ability.

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

I’m surprised at how little Zadorov got in return. I was expecting a first or decent prospect.

Really?

[Thorny]

Just now, Flashsabre said:

Once again Dreger with the in depth scoops: “a forward”

Some context would be nice: top 6 scoring winger, bottom 6 defensive forward with grit, bottom 6 defensive centre with faceoff ability.

I’ll rewind and look but I don’t think he was more specific 

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Once again Dreger with the in depth scoops: “a forward”

Some context would be nice: top 6 scoring winger, bottom 6 defensive forward with grit, bottom 6 defensive centre with faceoff ability.

Just cites injury returns as reasons why it’s “not an intense” search.

Just says Forward, ya 

[Flashsabre]

10 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Really?

Yeah his size/physical package is still coveted by teams looking for “Playoff Warrior” types.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Urgh I tried to edit the “thanks for reminder” bit out, it was dickish. Too quick 

I mean, ya? Do you think it’s fair to classify him as more conservative relative to average in making trades, just in general? My sense is yes. I see no reason why that wouldn’t also apply to in season 

 

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

I don’t know if there’s a quick way to check but yes my sense is he’s more conservative than average. We made few moves this past offseason. I know movement isn’t crazy in the league in general but I think re: actual trades we’d be below average 

 

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

We haven’t acquired a player via trade since greenway 

6 trades for nhl players since KA started his rebuild (post Stall / Hall). 2 were in dealing away Eichel and Ristolainen. Which I think can be fairly classified as special circumstance deals. The dumping of the old core. Not likely to be replicated in volume. 

We traded Lazar for Bjork, we traded…nothing (future consid.)? lol for Will Butcher, and then Stillman and Greenway. Only Stillman and Greenway have been traded for since dealing Eichel. 

I don’t know for certain without looking up all the teams but my sense is we’d be on the low end 

could be wrong. just don’t think so 

I think you kinda answered me without directly responding to my question: you think Adams is generally conservative when it comes to trades and that fuels your belief he won’t make a significant move prior to the deadline.

Which overlaps, but isn’t at all the same as Adams is generally against making in-season moves.

I think that over the past year, Adams tendency has been targetting low-cost complementary pieces to fill the pieces around the blinding light of his home-grown core: Jost, Greenway, Stillman, Johnson, Clifton…and Kane (his big name aside) would have fit. The fact he missed out on Kane tells me he certainly would still add a winger if he can get one at a Greenway-level price.

But I doubt the overall pattern will change until his core proves lacking.

And I suspect 20 games of .500 hockey is far from the proof he’s going to need.

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by dudacek

[Thorny]

47 minutes ago, dudacek said:

 

 

I think you kinda answered me without directly responding to my question: you think Adams is generally conservative when it comes to trades and that fuels your belief he won’t make a significant move prior to the deadline.

Which overlaps, but isn’t at all the same as Adams is generally against making in-season moves.

I think that over the past year, Adams tendency has been targetting low-cost complementary pieces to fill the pieces around the blinding light of his home-grown core: Jost, Greenway, Stillman, Johnson, Clifton…and Kane (his big name aside) would have fit. The fact he missed out on Kane tells me he certainly would still add a winger if he can get one at a Greenway-level price.

But I doubt the overall pattern will change until his core proves lacking.

And I suspect 20 games of .500 hockey is far from the proof he’s going to need.

 

Don’t know what you mean by “directly respond to your question”. I said “yes.”

GMs are already reluctant to make in-season moves, and I’d imagine, given that KA is in my estimation more reluctant to make trades just in general, I’d guess he’d be more reluctant than average in season, and the average in season is already pretty low 

i don’t think there’s a GREATER contrast relative to other GMs in season, than other times, but there’s still a contrast and a contrast from an already low amount allows me to say I don’t think we’ll ever see one in season again. Of course I was also exaggerating, but yes it will be a very low amount in my estimation if at all. He’s very deliberate. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Thorny

[Buffalonill]

14 hours ago, Thorny said:

Dreger just said on TSN that Buffalo is open for business to add a forward right now but are ok with being patient about it