Rumor: Eichel to have surgery soon

[Thorny]

10 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I’ve perceived his lack of captaincy material from his rookie year. But I never held that against him as there are plenty of great players who aren’t captain material and vice versa.
 

My perception of him being an ungrateful prick began with his exit presser in May. And he flat out misrepresented the “disconnect” between his doctors and the team’s, so I question his character in that regard as well. He couldn’t have done a better job of sabotaging his trade prospects and he and his team saw fit to persist with that tactic all summer, at least until he saw fit to fire his agent. 
 

It doesn’t matter that they didn’t say much, it matters that what they did say was damaging to the team’s ability to maximize his trade value. And the stunt with the doctor in Colorado in response to KA’s assertion that the team was in control of the process was classless as well. 

We don't actually have any idea if Jack hurt his trade value or not, though. We have no idea what it was at before, or what it's at now, much less the reasons those things are the way they are. It's not Canon now that Jack tarnished his value because his agents put out a statement. If KA has been asking for 4 1st round pick equivalent pieces the whole time, a team may never have approached that barrier, to this point. People get that Jack is allowed to want what he wants for his own body, right? Regardless of it being contractual that the Sabres have the final say on injury treatment? He's allowed to want to procedure he wants, that's his right. I don't see how that is misrepresentation - he and the team were clearly on different wavelengths on how to treat it. 

If Jack truly wanted that procedure, even if that fact turned teams off due to worries about said procedure, it doesn't make him a prick. Why would it? Is he wrong? Maybe. But he's allowed to have a preference for his own body, he really is. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Thorny

[Buffalonill]

10 minutes ago, spndnchz said:

Ray

Oh I see .  That made me laugh now

Edited September 2, 2021 by Buffalonill

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We don't actually have any idea if Jack hurt his trade value or not, though. We have no idea what it was at before, or what it's at now, much less the reasons those things are the way they are. It's not Canon now that Jack tarnished his value because his agents put out a statement. If KA has been asking for 4 1st round pick equivalent pieces the whole time, a team may never have approached that barrier, to this point. People get that Jack is allowed to want what he wants for his own body, right? Regardless of it being contractual that the Sabres have the final say on injury treatment? He's allowed to want to procedure he wants, that's his right. I don't see how that is misrepresentation - he and the team were clearly on different wavelengths on how to treat it. 

If Jack truly wanted that procedure, even if that fact turned teams off due to worries about said procedure, it doesn't make him a prick. Why would it? Is he wrong? Maybe. But he's allowed to have a preference for his own body, he really is. 

I can’t agree that we didn’t have any idea of his trade value before all the publicity about his injury. He’s a consensus elite hockey talent after all. Ultimately, his value will be whatever anyone is willing to pay for him, but KA has a great basis for establishing his list price.
 

Yes, we all get that he wants what he wants for his body, but I also get that he doesn’t have final say as collectively agreed to between his union and the league. I also get that the team has tens of millions in sunk costs and another 50 million in future costs in an elite asset. Those who get that Eichel wants what’s best for himself must also appreciate the Sabres’ position in that regard as well. 
 

Look, I appreciate your defense of him, but imo, one side has acted professionally and another petulantly during the process. And that, more than anything has shaped my view since May. So I’ll just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I can’t agree that we didn’t have any idea of his trade value before all the publicity about his injury. He’s a consensus elite hockey talent after all. Ultimately, his value will be whatever anyone is willing to pay for him, but KA has a great basis for establishing his list price.
 

Yes, we all get that he wants what he wants for his body, but I also get that he doesn’t have final say as collectively agreed to between his union and the league. I also get that the team has tens of millions in sunk costs and another 50 million in future costs in an elite asset. Those who get that Eichel wants what’s best for himself must also appreciate the Sabres’ position in that regard as well. 
 

Look, I appreciate your defense of him, but imo, one side has acted professionally and another petulantly during the process. And that, more than anything has shaped my view since May. So I’ll just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

The point is - I shouldn't have to be defending him. I'm not trying to be some sort of staunch defender. Because if the argument is the bold above, it's completely reasonable - I can see it from both sides.

Basically, Eichel wanting the team to explore trades to a team he could have his choice of procedure doesn't make him a "prick". It's a totally understandable request. It's his body and his physical future at stake - I can understand judging Jack's pursuit in this regard being seen as misguided, incorrect, considering who has final say per the CBA. But these things....wanting the surgery for your body that *you* feel comfortable with doesn't make somebody a bad person. I truly don't understand how people get there. 

Calling Jack "ungrateful" is a sizeable tip-off for me regarding how people view athletes

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

 

I'm not much for framing Jack's time as a Sabre based on a single uttered sentence 

But I sure find it handy when I’m trying to summarize why I’m ready for him to move on.

[Thorny]

13 minutes ago, dudacek said:

But I sure find it handy when I’m trying to summarize why I’m ready for him to move on.

Maybe it's just too old hat for me. I'm a Packers fan, I've been there with Favre. It's kind of funny to compare Jack's "drama" to the player drama in literally any other sport, for the record. In any other major sport Jack's "behavior" is barely a footnote. 

The list of prominent pro athletes that undergo messy divorces from their team at the end is long. It's common. I learned a long time ago that judging the player based on that ending, feeling somehow personally slighted by what amounts to business between a player, their agents, and a professional management group, wasn't for me. Everyone hated Favre when he left GB. Whatever. I enjoyed his time in NY and then on the Vikes, I continued to root him on. He literally said he wanted to "stick it" to the Packers. In the end, they all welcomed him back with open arms. 

These things aren't personal. Jack doesn't know who any of us are. His dispute is with current management. Jack isn't a prick. Jack is a 24 year old. 

[Digger]

So do we think this is still a credible tweet or just a guy taking a guess that would seem logical for a hot topic in Eichel?  I think it's reasonable to think he may agree to some sort of extra treatment.

[LGR4GM]

3 hours ago, Hoss said:

This isn’t about me not wanting to post in here. It was about me saying this report is full of *****. Back off. 

You need to chill the ***** out. 

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Digger said:

So do we think this is still a credible tweet or just a guy taking a guess that would seem logical for a hot topic in Eichel?  I think it's reasonable to think he may agree to some sort of extra treatment.

He knew nothing, regardless of whether anything he said turns out to be true

[K-9]

47 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The point is - I shouldn't have to be defending him. I'm not trying to be some sort of staunch defender. Because if the argument is the bold above, it's completely reasonable - I can see it from both sides.

Basically, Eichel wanting the team to explore trades to a team he could have his choice of procedure doesn't make him a "prick". It's a totally understandable request. It's his body and his physical future at stake - I can understand judging Jack's pursuit in this regard being seen as misguided, incorrect, considering who has final say per the CBA. But these things....wanting the surgery for your body that *you* feel comfortable with doesn't make somebody a bad person. I truly don't understand how people get there. 

Calling Jack "ungrateful" is a sizeable tip-off for me regarding how people view athletes

Don’t presume to know how I view athletes. I’ve known and worked with many over the years, pro and amateur alike. 
 

I don’t know Eichel personally, so I can’t really say for sure how he really is, but based on what’s transpired since season’s end, my impression is that he’s been dishonest, manipulative, and unprofessional while choosing to ignore the fact that his own union is responsible for the rules limiting his ability to get what he wants when he wants it. And while I suspect his previous representation is mostly responsible, they worked for HIM and he had ultimate control. But I give him credit for firing his agent. 
 

The Sabres made him a multi-millionaire and the face of the franchise, so yeah, given my perception of his behavior recently, I see him as ungrateful. Sorry that conflicts with your take, but you’re not going to change my view with any zealous defense of his behavior. Only he can do that and if and when he does, I’ll acknowledge it. Until then, I think we are at an impasse on the matter. 

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Don’t presume to know how I view athletes. I’ve known and worked with many over the years, pro and amateur alike. 
 

I don’t know Eichel personally, so I can’t really say for sure how he really is, but based on what’s transpired since season’s end, my impression is that he’s been dishonest, manipulative, and unprofessional while choosing to ignore the fact that his own union is responsible for the rules limiting his ability to get what he wants when he wants it. And while I suspect his previous representation is mostly responsible, they worked for HIM and he had ultimate control. But I give him credit for firing his agent. 
 

The Sabres made him a multi-millionaire and the face of the franchise, so yeah, given my perception of his behavior recently, I see him as ungrateful. Sorry that conflicts with your take, but you’re not going to change my view with any zealous defense of his behavior. Only he can do that and if and when he does, I’ll acknowledge it. Until then, I think we are at an impasse on the matter. 

The bolded is where your unacknowledged bias shows. 

Impasse, indeed

Edited September 2, 2021 by Thorny

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The bolded is where your unacknowledged bias shows. 

Impasse, indeed

Informed (by Eichel and his representative’s behavior) opinion on the matter, yes; bias, no. Not by a long shot. I’ve got a list of gripes with the Sabres organization longer than my arm, so I don’t wear rose colored glasses where the organization is concerned. 

I find it hypocritical that you would cite “unacknowledged” bias in the opinions of others who put any blame on Eichel for his share of this mess while you so zealously leap to defend his actions here. I believe we are done discussing the matter.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Informed (by Eichel and his representative’s behavior) opinion on the matter, yes; bias, no. Not by a long shot. I’ve got a list of gripes with the Sabres organization longer than my arm, so I don’t wear rose colored glasses where the organization is concerned. 

I find it hypocritical that you would cite “unacknowledged” bias in the opinions of others who put any blame on Eichel for his share of this mess while you so zealously leap to defend his actions here. I believe we are done discussing the matter.

Well....no, just yours. I didn't say there was unacknowledged bias in anyone else's. 

The point of what I highlighted in the previous post was that you view the Sabres as having "made" Jack a millionaire and that he should be grateful because of it. That's so bogus. Jack made himself a millionaire. The fact you aren't even aware of the wording makes me more sure of my initial take re: your biased stance on athletes. 

I'm tired of the hypocrisy claim. It's informed by what I can only assume is a lack of reading comprehension. My posts on Jack are littered with acknowledgement of the fact he does have flaws. Up to and including using the term "flaws" 

 

[Digger]

all opinions are biased.

[JohnC]

Whatever side of the Jack issue anyone is at regarding who is at fault for how things have devolved it is apparent that a separation is in the best interest of each party. I'm not a Jack basher, far from it. I understand his frustration and exasperation at where this franchise currently is at with respect to competitiveness. And I certainly understand why he doesn't want to be part of a rebuild that is in the works. 

I disagree with those who believe that he is the one who has damaged his market value because of how he has conducted himself in this sage. The issue comes down to his health status. Until that is clarified I don't see much movement. 

The one person I will give credit to is KA. He has handled this complicated and high stakes issue like a maestro. Once Krueger was dispatched our GM has handled his responsibilities with purpose/direction and overall very smartly.  

[Sabres Fan in NS]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

You need to chill the ***** out. 

You are the one, in this case, that needs to chill.  What is with you today?

@Hoss simply pointed out that it has been some days and nothing has happened, so we should just move on, which seems to be what has happened.  The discussion in this thread has moved on.  When you came after him with nonsense he said for you to back off in a nice way.  That said, the 'back off' part is never very nice, but you came at him hard with nonsense about not having to post in here.

Anyway, he is in Monteal, or was, and seems like surgery is not likely anytime real soon.  The thread has moved on, so lets just get on with it, eh?

[Sabres Fan in NS]

+++++

Here we have yet another perfectly good thread shot to hell.

For the love of all that is Holy ... KA trade this dude ASAP.  We can't take it anymore!!

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

You are the one, in this case, that needs to chill.  What is with you today?

@Hoss simply pointed out that it has been some days and nothing has happened, so we should just move on, which seems to be what has happened.  The discussion in this thread has moved on.  When you came after him with nonsense he said for you to back off in a nice way.  That said, the 'back off' part is never very nice, but you came at him hard with nonsense about not having to post in here.

Anyway, he is in Monteal, or was, and seems like surgery is not likely anytime real soon.  The thread has moved on, so lets just get on with it, eh?

Liger and Hoss are like Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels circa 1997. As far as feuds go... classic.

[Cascade Youth]

For those of you saying Eichel hasn't actually said anything about wanting to be traded, or denigrating the Sabres' management - Jack Eichel is clearly a student of the Aaron Rodgers School of Passive Aggressive Advocacy, and he's enrolled in the "How to Say Something Loudly Without Actually Saying It" class where they teach you how to plausibly deny/blame the media if your agents' messages start to go south from a PR standpoint.

To put it more simply: come on.  Eichel has done and said plenty.

I continue to blame both camps: Adams for deciding the relationship isn't salvageable (though Adams gets major credit for not caving in and taking a crappy deal - yet), and Eichel for being a bit spineless (ironic, I know, given that he's got a spine issue).

[LGR4GM]

28 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

You are the one, in this case, that needs to chill.  What is with you today?

@Hoss simply pointed out that it has been some days and nothing has happened, so we should just move on, which seems to be what has happened.  The discussion in this thread has moved on.  When you came after him with nonsense he said for you to back off in a nice way.  That said, the 'back off' part is never very nice, but you came at him hard with nonsense about not having to post in here.

Anyway, he is in Monteal, or was, and seems like surgery is not likely anytime real soon.  The thread has moved on, so lets just get on with it, eh?

This is a straight up lie

5 hours ago, Hoss said:

Now that we’re a few days removed from this report and nobody reputable has backed it up we can agree it’s false and move on.

 

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

You realize you don't have to post in threads you don't want to correct? 

 

5 hours ago, Hoss said:

This isn’t about me not wanting to post in here. It was about me saying this report is full of *****. Back off. 

Here is the exchange. Hoss has a long history of going into threads he disagrees with and wanting to end those threads. He did it in this very thread from the start. I simply told him he doesn't ahve to post in threads he doesn't like and then he went after me. So you want to try again?

Edited September 2, 2021 by LGR4GM

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

This is a straight up lie and I am calling you a liar because of it. 

 

 

Here is the exchange. Hoss has a long history of going into threads he disagrees with and wanting to end those threads. He did it in this very thread from the start. I simply told him he doesn't ahve to post in threads he doesn't like and then he went after me. So you want to try again?

ThanHoss

[LGR4GM]

On 8/31/2021 at 8:59 AM, Hoss said:

Holy mother ***** can we use the rumor thread for rumors 

Here is my proof.

[Digger]

15 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

+++++

Here we have yet another perfectly good thread shot to hell.

For the love of all that is Holy ... KA trade this dude ASAP.  We can't take it anymore!!

Yes but the good news is if you don't like this Jack Eichel thread you can easily switch to one of the other multiple threads discussing Eichel...................................but most of those have gone off topic as well.

[Buffalonill]

22 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

You are the one, in this case, that needs to chill.  What is with you today?

@Hoss simply pointed out that it has been some days and nothing has happened, so we should just move on, which seems to be what has happened.  The discussion in this thread has moved on.  When you came after him with nonsense he said for you to back off in a nice way.  That said, the 'back off' part is never very nice, but you came at him hard with nonsense about not having to post in here.

Anyway, he is in Monteal, or was, and seems like surgery is not likely anytime real soon.  The thread has moved on, so lets just get on with it, eh?

For biosteel camp 

[LGR4GM]

The rumor is just that and the thread has run it's course. Time to lock it so Hoss can be happy and NS can stop taking his side.