French Collection Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 13 minutes ago, JohnC said: Jack is dealing with a health situation that could jeopardize his career. He is also on a franchise stuck in the muck of mediocrity. If his apparent disillusionment with his situation is a surprise to the organization then it is grossly clueless. You don't think that the organization has communicated with Jack and his reps during his injury hiatus? It's safe to assume that there has been communication while he was on the shelf. So it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone in the front office what his attitude was about the situation. I'm not going to criticize Jack for candidly answering questions at his exit interview. Would anyone take his responses seriously if he gave some disingenuous responses at the interview when anyyone who had a scintilla amount of knowledge of his situation know that it was untrue? My point is that most people involved in the hockey business both inside and outside of the organization were well aware of what's going on. I'm very confident that the organization and the people who cover the Sabres were not blindsided by any surprising revelations at his exit interview. Jack's not the bad guy here; and neither is the organization. Divorce is rarely easy for the parties involved. It's just a difficult situation that the parties have to come together in some sort of accommodation. Then boot him out of the house and find some support for the kids. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 52 minutes ago, JohnC said: Jack is dealing with a health situation that could jeopardize his career. He is also on a franchise stuck in the muck of mediocrity. If his apparent disillusionment with his situation is a surprise to the organization then it is grossly clueless. You don't think that the organization has communicated with Jack and his reps during his injury hiatus? It's safe to assume that there has been communication while he was on the shelf. So it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone in the front office what his attitude was about the situation. I'm not going to criticize Jack for candidly answering questions at his exit interview. Would anyone take his responses seriously if he gave some disingenuous responses at the interview when anyyone who had a scintilla amount of knowledge of his situation know that it was untrue? My point is that most people involved in the hockey business both inside and outside of the organization were well aware of what's going on. I'm very confident that the organization and the people who cover the Sabres were not blindsided by any surprising revelations at his exit interview. Jack's not the bad guy here; and neither is the organization. Divorce is rarely easy for the parties involved. It's just a difficult situation that the parties have to come together in some sort of accommodation. I get it. You clearly support Jack. My view is slightly different. I understand his situation, I am upset that the organization is in this situation, but I just don’t like Jack’s approach. When I heard KA’s presser after Jack’s exit interview it looked to me like KA had to do damage control to reinforce the qualifications of the team doctors, who also work for the Bills, and who Jack’s doctors also agreed with. To answer your question, yes - of course there was communication between the parties. That does not mean Jack should dump this out at the exit interview and make public a divide by calling it a “disconnect“. That to me is a form of betrayal and a passive aggressive move on his part. I don’t work like that and I don’t work well with those that do. I don’t respect the tactic and I feel that it will make the trade much harder to get to a win-win result. Why was this necessary? It was not necessary, just another example of petulant behavior from Jack. All of this could have been worked behind closed doors It did not need to be a public thing. We are looking at it with different lenses. I admit I am old school compared to many of you here. I know times have changed, players act different today, etc. I read your posts and I can tell your are smart and a polite person, I just don’t think we will agree. I see no honor in Jack’s “honesty”. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 Jack Eichel was not in the first round of the playoffs, nor was he in the second round. just saying… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 2 hours ago, Pimlach said: I get it. You clearly support Jack. My view is slightly different. I understand his situation, I am upset that the organization is in this situation, but I just don’t like Jack’s approach. When I heard KA’s presser after Jack’s exit interview it looked to me like KA had to do damage control to reinforce the qualifications of the team doctors, who also work for the Bills, and who Jack’s doctors also agreed with. To answer your question, yes - of course there was communication between the parties. That does not mean Jack should dump this out at the exit interview and make public a divide by calling it a “disconnect“. That to me is a form of betrayal and a passive aggressive move on his part. I don’t work like that and I don’t work well with those that do. I don’t respect the tactic and I feel that it will make the trade much harder to get to a win-win result. Why was this necessary? It was not necessary, just another example of petulant behavior from Jack. All of this could have been worked behind closed doors It did not need to be a public thing. We are looking at it with different lenses. I admit I am old school compared to many of you here. I know times have changed, players act different today, etc. I read your posts and I can tell your are smart and a polite person, I just don’t think we will agree. I see no honor in Jack’s “honesty”. You are off the mark. You would be surprised to learn that I am more old school than you are. There is a bigger context than Jack. I understand Jack's behavior because it is not so much related to a single issue as it relates to years of organizational ineptitude. It appears that he has reached the end of the line being marooned in a dysfunctional system. That shouldn't be surprising to anyone. The stench of this organization has contaminated Jack's attitude as it has done to others. It has staggered a lot of our good players. ROR was known as a practice warrior and maximum effort player. He desperately wanted out. Sam Reinhart is one of the most honest players in the league. He wants out. Risto basically said I don't care. Hall wanted out out. And when he got to a highly functioning team his play revived. Montour was relieved when dealt to Florida, and afterwards spoke about the confusion he left behind when he changed teams. It doesn't matter what business you are in. When you run a chaotic operation that has dismally failed in its mission you shouldn't be surprised when there is a high level of disgruntlement. That's the real issue and cause of a deterioration in attitude by some of its players. 1 hour ago, SDS said: Jack Eichel was not in the first round of the playoffs, nor was he in the second round. just saying… The roads are not always straight. Sometimes there are curves on the road. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 Jack this Jack that. Jack isn't Jack is.................I'm not a fan of the Buffalo Jacks but the Sabres. I personally just don't want to hear about Jack any more and want to move on...........just like that divorce metaphor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, JohnC said: You are off the mark. You would be surprised to learn that I am more old school than you are. There is a bigger context than Jack. I understand Jack's behavior because it is not so much related to a single issue as it relates to years of organizational ineptitude. It appears that he has reached the end of the line being marooned in a dysfunctional system. That shouldn't be surprising to anyone. The stench of this organization has contaminated Jack's attitude as it has done to others. It has staggered a lot of our good players. ROR was known as a practice warrior and maximum effort player. He desperately wanted out. Sam Reinhart is one of the most honest players in the league. He wants out. Risto basically said I don't care. Hall wanted out out. And when he got to a highly functioning team his play revived. Montour was relieved when dealt to Florida, and afterwards spoke about the confusion he left behind when he changed teams. It doesn't matter what business you are in. When you run a chaotic operation that has dismally failed in its mission you shouldn't be surprised when there is a high level of disgruntlement. That's the real issue and cause of a deterioration in attitude by some of its players. The roads are not always straight. Sometimes there are curves on the road. You have this assbackwards Terry (or are you Kim?) . These guys you list off with their broken spirits are supposed to be the leaders. the very guys who define the team attitude. They're simply the wrong guys. If we'd just named ROR captain and not worshipped Jack and Sam until they earned it (in the playoffs) this might have all gone differently............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 Just now, PerreaultForever said: You have this assbackwards Terry (or are you Kim?) . These guys you list off with their broken spirits are supposed to be the leaders. the very guys who define the team attitude. They're simply the wrong guys. If we'd just named ROR captain and not worshipped Jack and Sam until they earned it (in the playoffs) this might have all gone differently............ No you got it assbackwards. Good players have come into the system and ended up getting demoralized by its pervasive dysfunction. Ask yourself why ROR, a player you consider to lack leadership, ends up leaving and then becomes one of the leaders and prime players on a cup team? San Reinhart is known to be a good character guy and one of the most consistent players in the league. He's not known to be a problem person yet he has publicly made it clear that he wants out. The notion that if ROR was designated the captain instead of Jack the situation would have been different is simplistic and absurd. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, JohnC said: No you got it assbackwards. Good players have come into the system and ended up getting demoralized by its pervasive dysfunction. Ask yourself why ROR, a player you consider to lack leadership, ends up leaving and then becomes one of the leaders and prime players on a cup team? San Reinhart is known to be a good character guy and one of the most consistent players in the league. He's not known to be a problem person yet he has publicly made it clear that he wants out. The notion that if ROR was designated the captain instead of Jack the situation would have been different is simplistic and absurd. Nope. Disagree 100 percent. On all of it. Every single word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said: Nope. Disagree 100 percent. On all of it. Every single word. Thank you for infusing me with confidence. I now feel more confident in my position than I have ever felt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, JohnC said: You are off the mark. You would be surprised to learn that I am more old school than you are. There is a bigger context than Jack. I understand Jack's behavior because it is not so much related to a single issue as it relates to years of organizational ineptitude. It appears that he has reached the end of the line being marooned in a dysfunctional system. That shouldn't be surprising to anyone. The stench of this organization has contaminated Jack's attitude as it has done to others. It has staggered a lot of our good players. ROR was known as a practice warrior and maximum effort player. He desperately wanted out. Sam Reinhart is one of the most honest players in the league. He wants out. Risto basically said I don't care. Hall wanted out out. And when he got to a highly functioning team his play revived. Montour was relieved when dealt to Florida, and afterwards spoke about the confusion he left behind when he changed teams. It doesn't matter what business you are in. When you run a chaotic operation that has dismally failed in its mission you shouldn't be surprised when there is a high level of disgruntlement. That's the real issue and cause of a deterioration in attitude by some of its players. It appears I was off the mark if you are older than me. I think we have a common ground on the organization’s dysfunction. I can agree that the ineptness started shortly after Terry bought the team The decisions to pay big money for mediocre players, the firing of Ruff while retaining Darcy, Rolston, the decision to deliberately suffer (read tank), the hiring of Black/Sawyer/LaFontaine/Murray/Nolan …all of it predates both Sam and Jack. I know someone with ties to the team, your list of players happy to leave is far from complete. We can only hope the Pegula’s find someone to run the team and then back away. Edited June 11, 2021 by Pimlach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted June 11, 2021 Report Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Pimlach said: It appears I was off the mark if you are older than me. I think we have a common ground on the organization’s dysfunction. I can agree that the ineptness started shortly after Terry bought the team The decisions to pay big money for mediocre players, the firing of Ruff while retaining Darcy, Rolston, the decision to deliberately suffer (read tank), the hiring of Black/Sawyer/LaFontaine/Murray/Nolan …all of it predates both Sam and Jack. I know someone with ties to the team, your list of players happy to leave is far from complete. We can only hope the Pegula’s find someone to run the team and then back away. I'm not completely pessimistic about the future of this team. The trajectory of this team can still project upwards if the front office makes a number of smart decisions this offseason. Will Jack, Reinhart and Risto be on the roster next season? Probably not. Of the three Reinhart is the most likely to be moved because he has the contract leverage to force the organization to trade him. It should be noted that Reinhart gets less fan venom for his more explicit comments about being tired of his situation than Jack gets for his more oblique comments indicating he wants out. If these players are dealt then the critical issue is what is the return. Make no mistake we are not going to get equal value. But that is not to say that our roster can't be improved and reshaped with an infusion of different players to alter the mix and team dynamic. Sometimes change for the sake of change can be refreshing. My basic to do list starts with the GM hiring Granato. He excels at player development. That is an valuable attribute for a roster that will be very young. Also the GM should not get cute and overthink the draft. Draft Owen Power with the first pick. Even if he goes back to school for another year he would be an excellent selection. And maybe the biggest priority is to improve the goaltending position. If we have a good enough tandem that will keep us in most games that in itself should give this team confidence. And as previously mentioned we need to get an adequate yield on the probable trades that will happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted June 12, 2021 Report Share Posted June 12, 2021 7 hours ago, JohnC said: Thank you for infusing me with confidence. I now feel more confident in my position than I have ever felt. No need to act like a dick Terry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted June 12, 2021 Report Share Posted June 12, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, JohnC said: I'm not completely pessimistic about the future of this team. The trajectory of this team can still project upwards if the front office makes a number of smart decisions this offseason. Will Jack, Reinhart and Risto be on the roster next season? Probably not. Of the three Reinhart is the most likely to be moved because he has the contract leverage to force the organization to trade him. It should be noted that Reinhart gets less fan venom for his more explicit comments about being tired of his situation than Jack gets for his more oblique comments indicating he wants out. If these players are dealt then the critical issue is what is the return. Make no mistake we are not going to get equal value. But that is not to say that our roster can't be improved and reshaped with an infusion of different players to alter the mix and team dynamic. Sometimes change for the sake of change can be refreshing. My basic to do list starts with the GM hiring Granato. He excels at player development. That is an valuable attribute for a roster that will be very young. Also the GM should not get cute and overthink the draft. Draft Owen Power with the first pick. Even if he goes back to school for another year he would be an excellent selection. And maybe the biggest priority is to improve the goaltending position. If we have a good enough tandem that will keep us in most games that in itself should give this team confidence. And as previously mentioned we need to get an adequate yield on the probable trades that will happen. Agree. Especially on the goaltending situation. Even in our 1970 expansion, era goaltending was a priority. You can’t win consistently with mediocre goaltending. St Louis let Hutton go to free agency because he was finished. Every FO knew that but ours, and yet he is still on the roster. Edited June 12, 2021 by Pimlach 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamboni Posted June 12, 2021 Report Share Posted June 12, 2021 27 minutes ago, Pimlach said: Agree. Especially on the goaltending situation. Even in our 1970 expansion, era goaltending was a priority. You can’t win consistently with mediocre goaltending. St Louis let Hutton go to free agency because he was finished. Every FO knew that but ours, and yet he is still on the roster. He’s no longer a Sabre. Unless he signs on for more crazy train action. Sabres moving on to better things I hope… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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