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Sabres looking into team getting vaccinated


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22 minutes ago, Der Jaeger said:

 

I work at the national level for the DOD, in recruiting and training new Soldiers, and we track this stuff closely.  NYS isn't the ideal spot you think it is.  NYS has the second worst mortality rate among US States, only trailing New Jersey, and closely followed by Massachusetts.  We ask the kids that come in where they are from, and NYS has been one of the hot spots for a while.

The reason that I cite SC is because the state has basically been open since the summer, and rates about the middle of mortality rates for the states (slightly higher due to an early outbreak).  The SC governor never put the restrictions in place that NYS did, and got a better outcome.

Vaccination distribution here is on the same pace as NYS, with similar rates.

NYS can cite the outbreak in NYC at the beginning as well, leading to a higher mortality rate.  But I know the people who set up and ran the Javits Center.  That was a self-inflicted situation.

 

Yes...the mortality rate is high in NYS due to circumstance.  It was the first place to get a major outbreak in the US thanks to the wrong people flying into their airports and not LA or Chicago or Atlanta. NOT through any real fault of their own.  In fact, a large part of the reason other places have lower mortality is due to the work done in NYS hospitals with no information on what to do, no set procedures or protocols, no drugs to treat it, no real understanding of what it actually was and a lack of ventilators. All of that stuff had to be learned on the fly, taught to all the hospitals and staff and then implemented as part of updated protocols and procedures...all while in the midst of unprecedented numbers of patients flooding in and staff dealing with exhaustion. 

So to be quite honest, the statistics you bandy about are meaningless to use in the way you are trying to use them because they lack any context. This is a perfect scenario for showing how you can show anything you want with statistics when you have no understanding or context of the situation. Of course those other places will have lower mortality rates...they got to use all of the knowledge NYS created from nothing that they had no ability to use for much of it.  

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Just now, LGR4GM said:

279 compared to 179

That's not great considering NY got hit first and harder than anywhere else while also compounding things with their dumb nursing home plan. I wouldn't be throwing out 19th highest mortality rate per capita is some giant triumph. 

True about SC. 

 

But NYS didn't have the second highest mortality rate due to the nursing home issue, solely.  The handling of the NYC outbreak early on was partially preventable.  NYC officials lack of proper use of the Javits Center was entirely their decision, not a Department of Defense issue. 

NY didn't get hit first.  Washington state got hit first.

 

My point: NYS has had some of the strictest lockdown rules in the US, and is really no better for it.

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2 minutes ago, Der Jaeger said:

True about SC. 

 

But NYS didn't have the second highest mortality rate due to the nursing home issue, solely.  The handling of the NYC outbreak early on was partially preventable.  NYC officials lack of proper use of the Javits Center was entirely their decision, not a Department of Defense issue. 

NY didn't get hit first.  Washington state got hit first.

 

My point: NYS has had some of the strictest lockdown rules in the US, and is really no better for it.

NYC specifically had the first mass outbreak. It burned through NYC last March and April. Why probably has a lot to do with indoor living in close quarters while not understanding prevention methods yet. I agree that the NYC handling was bad and we could have prevented a lot, I reject the idea the lockdown was not a good step in that direction while knowledge gaps were closed. 

The bold we won't know for years. The entire problem is that you are comparing NY to other states at different time periods with different measures (Florida death counts are highly suspect) and dismissing all other variables except lockdown v not lockdown. 

Further you are saying the lockdown did nothing... if that were true why did NY's death rate basically flatline starting in May? You are right it might not be the lockdown but we don't know. What about mask use? Again you are taking one variable and extending that to a population and that doesn't jive with the data. Further lockdowns might have looked different in different states, not all lockdowns were created equal. NY btw hit about 24k covid deaths by May and wouldn't hit 30k deaths until January. 

There's major flaws with what you are arguing and saying "no better for it" is highly subjective and also does not match epidemiological models generated in April of last year. SC wasn't even peaking when NY was and would not for another 3 months or late july. By Late July the therapeutics and knowledge gained from NYC was exceedingly higher. Covid testing was far more advanced and accessible and there is lots of evidence early detection lowers the death outcome. 

Sure NY should probably start opening everything up (they are) as long as ppl distance and mask up but the lockdown in April of last year was correct, it probably saved thousands of lives. Should it have been reduced sooner? Maybe, I think that is a good argument but SC is not some bastion of freedom but instead they are fortunate their climate and culture allows for more outdoor activities and they were hit by Covid 4 months after NYC. I lived in Georgia for years and there were basically 3 months that bars didn't have their garage doors open and we weren't doing stuff outside. 

Now please let me go back to being annoyed at NYS government. Defending them in anyway makes me gag. 

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All I am saying is that I don't think we know what the lockdown v no lockdown impact was. That's it and I think we should wait until touting one way over another until we do know. A lockdown for NY might have made more sense than a lockdown for SC for various reasons. 

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3 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Yes...the mortality rate is high in NYS due to circumstance.  It was the first place to get a major outbreak in the US thanks to the wrong people flying into their airports and not LA or Chicago or Atlanta. NOT through any real fault of their own.  In fact, a large part of the reason other places have lower mortality is due to the work done in NYS hospitals with no information on what to do, no set procedures or protocols, no drugs to treat it, no real understanding of what it actually was and a lack of ventilators. All of that stuff had to be learned on the fly, taught to all the hospitals and staff and then implemented as part of updated protocols and procedures...all while in the midst of unprecedented numbers of patients flooding in and staff dealing with exhaustion. 

So to be quite honest, the statistics you bandy about are meaningless to use in the way you are trying to use them because they lack any context. This is a perfect scenario for showing how you can show anything you want with statistics when you have no understanding or context of the situation. Of course those other places will have lower mortality rates...they got to use all of the knowledge NYS created from nothing that they had no ability to use for much of it.  

So, interesting but a very NYS centric point of view.  The first lessons from COVID-19 prevention and treatment were coming from South Korea.  The Department of Defense has a large presence there, and when COVID-19 hit, the prevention lessons and treatments came from them first, not NYC or NYS hospitals.  The DOD was working with their epidemic system weeks before the virus hit the US hard.  The RoK had over 4K cases before the US hit 1K confirmed cases.

Many of these lessons where passed through the DoD system.  We were briefed on treatment and prevention in last February.  Far before the US had reacted at all.

Javits Center is another story.  I've read most of the reports online, and they are all to one degree or another inaccurate.  I can't get into the actual details, but the hospital workers in NYC, who are truly heroes, were done no favors by the NYC leaders.

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11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

All I am saying is that I don't think we know what the lockdown v no lockdown impact was. That's it and I think we should wait until touting one way over another until we do know. A lockdown for NY might have made more sense than a lockdown for SC for various reasons. 

Replying to this and the above:

All true.  Everywhere locked down.  SC did from March to July.  I remember driving to work on the interstate, usually packed, with nearly no one on the highway.  And I agree, the lockdown saved lives.

Two points of contention:

- NYS is too NYS centric.  Read my other note, above.  Were lessons extracted from NYC to the rest of the country?  Sure.  But, the number 1 source of treatment and prevention data came from South Korea.  They are the among the world's leaders in disease control.  Treatments were being shared at the US DOD level in February, since US military doctors are intertwined with the RoK system.  The bell curve associated with the build up and regression of COVID-19 is named after a US military disease control doctor, who was the top doctor for the US in the RoK.

- NYS could've let up back in the fall.  DoD has mass data from movements and transitions, to include letting initial entry training Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, Airmen, leave basic training and go home for the holidays for two weeks.  We had a minor uptick in positive COVID cases, which was gone in two weeks.

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6 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

In other words, let the player schedule their appointments like everyone else? Is there precedent for taking vaccines into specific workplaces other than health care facilities? Would we have a problem with all Taco Bell employees getting jabbed at work?

Considering Their Primary Place of Employment is being used as a Vaccination Site by Erie County I would say those Vaccines are already in the building.

And if Taco Bell wants to vaccinate their employees while at work absolutely, anything to increase the number of people who are getting vaccinated. 

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7 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

In other words, let the player schedule their appointments like everyone else? Is there precedent for taking vaccines into specific workplaces other than health care facilities? Would we have a problem with all Taco Bell employees getting jabbed at work?

To the bolded, absolutely.  A lot of companies arrange to have flu vaccines given at their workplaces for employees and their families.

Provided they aren't getting jabbed while making somebody's chalupa, what's the issue with a restaurant worker receiving a vaccination shot at a convenient location?  Isn't that going to increase the likelihood of the worker getting vaccinated which is a good thing?

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57 minutes ago, Taro T said:

To the bolded, absolutely.  A lot of companies arrange to have flu vaccines given at their workplaces for employees and their families.

Provided they aren't getting jabbed while making somebody's chalupa, what's the issue with a restaurant worker receiving a vaccination shot at a convenient location?  Isn't that going to increase the likelihood of the worker getting vaccinated which is a good thing?

I get my flu shot At work every year. I plan on getting my bi-annual Covid booster the same way.

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7 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Considering Their Primary Place of Employment is being used as a Vaccination Site by Erie County I would say those Vaccines are already in the building.

And if Taco Bell wants to vaccinate their employees while at work absolutely, anything to increase the number of people who are getting vaccinated. 

Is NYS offering vaccines to Taco Bell?

Is there a reason the players can't be responsible citizens and go get vaccinated on their own?

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2 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Is NYS offering vaccines to Taco Bell?

Is there a reason the players can't be responsible citizens and go get vaccinated on their own?

Front-facing interactibles are ahead on the depths chart here. Regardless of age. 

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13 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Is NYS offering vaccines to Taco Bell?

Is there a reason the players can't be responsible citizens and go get vaccinated on their own?

You already know the answer to Your First Question.


No reason, but there are advantages to playing professional hockey, that the organizations do as much as possible to assist their players. 
 

They do give them Flu Vaccines every October as well. 

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