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NHL Draft Moving Up to June 5&6th?

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In a fair market, Cirelli gets more than pick 7.

In a market where Tampa has to trade him and not take contract back, pick 7 might be the best offer they get. But you can be sure there are other bidders. Montreal has cap space and pick 8, for example. What will they add and can Buffalo beat it.

Pretty sure they will figure out a plan that doesn’t involve trading him. We’ve certainly seen that movie before.

Edited by dudacek
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3 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

if they are that strapped to have to give him up, you don't need to trade away the 7th overall. Its an overpayment. 

2021 lottery protected pick, no problem

i understand, he's a very good hockey player.   Think you can do the trade and not give away the pick.

Anthony Cirelli is essentially a 22 year old Ryan O’Reilly.  He is worth a 7th OA pick (and more) by any objective evaluation.

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1 hour ago, Curt said:

Anthony Cirelli is essentially a 22 year old Ryan O’Reilly.  He is worth a 7th OA pick (and more) by any objective evaluation.

Not for people who dream about the 0.01% chance that the seventh pick materializes into a ready-to-play Mario Lemieux.

For those people:  Do you play the state/provincial lotteries?  Yeah, it could happen to you.  But it likely won't.

Edited by Eleven

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7 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

why would you not want the pick lottery protected? its a gross over-payment if it is not protected

I can not imagine trading a 7th overall pick in a draft that is compared favorably to the 2015 draft in terms of talent.  

Anthony Cerelli? He's a 40 point player on an extremely talented club.   not to say I wouldnt mind getting him but the 7th overall? no way

 

You missed my point, I wasn't saying that's definitely what it would cost, I meant that, if there had been a hypothetical swap on the table for our 1st this year, if we were unable to move that pick this year for Cirelli due to the timing of the draft, the cost of pushing it back a full year could potentially include loss of lottery protection. 

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I would trade 7th overall and a prospect not named Cozens for Cirelli at any point in the next month. 

How about 7th overall and Asplund. 

Edited by LGR4GM
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On 5/5/2020 at 6:25 PM, Weave said:

I don't think Crusader is in the this to watch a winning team.  I think he's in it to watch a winning draft.

yes, cause trading all those draft picks in the Tim Murray years worked out sooo well.  

Remind me, what place did they come in with ROR on the team and Kane (up till the trade deadline)?

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On 5/5/2020 at 9:39 PM, Eleven said:

Not for people who dream about the 0.01% chance that the seventh pick materializes into a ready-to-play Mario Lemieux.

For those people:  Do you play the state/provincial lotteries?  Yeah, it could happen to you.  But it likely won't.

now you are comparing Cerelli to Mario Lemieux? I get it, he's a very good player but I'm not giving up the 7th in this years draft.  Maybe in some draft years  I would but not in this one.

Not sure why the argument is going on and on and on.....if the draft happens in June, there will be no trades for players who are on rosters.

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On 5/6/2020 at 9:01 AM, LGR4GM said:

I would trade 7th overall and a prospect not named Cozens for Cirelli at any point in the next month. 

How about 7th overall and Asplund. 

dear god, now you are adding to the trade? madness!

 

he ranks 128th in NHL scoring in PPG, he plays on one of the best teams in the league. His main linemates are Alex Kilhorn and Steven Stamkos.  he wins 47% of his face-offs (hardly ROR)

You know who he ranks behind in scoring Points per game? Dylan Strome, why not go after him and save the 7th overall pick?

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On 5/5/2020 at 9:39 PM, Eleven said:

Not for people who dream about the 0.01% chance that the seventh pick materializes into a ready-to-play Mario Lemieux.

For those people:  Do you play the state/provincial lotteries?  Yeah, it could happen to you.  But it likely won't.

why does the 7th pick next year have to be NHL ready?  are the Sabres going to win the cup next year? would they even be a contender with Cerelli as the #2 Center? 

This is the 2015 draft in terms of quality in the top 8 to 10 picks.

Rantanen was the 10th pick that year, Timo Meier was 9th pick in 2015. If you look at the top 10, the only forward who would not rank ahead of Cerelli in a redraft is Pavel Zacha.

AGAIN, im not saying dont try to acquire him, just don't give up THIS years draft pick. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

why does the 7th pick next year have to be NHL ready?  are the Sabres going to win the cup next year? would they even be a contender with Cerelli as the #2 Center? 

This is the 2015 draft in terms of quality in the top 8 to 10 picks.

Rantanen was the 10th pick that year, Timo Meier was 9th pick in 2015. If you look at the top 10, the only forward who would not rank ahead of Cerelli in a redraft is Pavel Zacha.

AGAIN, im not saying dont try to acquire him, just don't give up THIS years draft pick. 

 

I think last year was. This year is not 2015 IMO. This year has some depth in the top 5 but I would grade it a step below 2015/2019 in terms of players. 

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2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think last year was. This year is not 2015 IMO. This year has some depth in the top 5 but I would grade it a step below 2015/2019 in terms of players. 

here is an impossible question to answer for you.  

In 3 years what would you prefer -   Holtz, Perfetti or Rossi vs Cerelli?  im not sold that Cerelli has offensive ability to drive a line that would put up 50 points with the Sabres.  He wont be playing with Stamkos and Kilhorn here.

On 5/5/2020 at 7:56 PM, dudacek said:

In a fair market, Cirelli gets more than pick 7.

In a market where Tampa has to trade him and not take contract back, pick 7 might be the best offer they get. But you can be sure there are other bidders. Montreal has cap space and pick 8, for example. What will they add and can Buffalo beat it.

Pretty sure they will figure out a plan that doesn’t involve trading him. We’ve certainly seen that movie before.

would you trade the 7th overall for Dylan Strome? 

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1 minute ago, Crusader1969 said:

here is an impossible question to answer for you. 

In 3 years what would you prefer -   Holtz, Perfetti or Rossi vs Cerelli?  im not sold that Cerelli has offensive ability to drive a line that would put up 50 points with the Sabres.  He wont be playing with Stamkos and Kilhorn here.

would you trade the 7th overall for Dylan Strome? 

Won't speak for Liger, but would rather have Cirelli then, if that means having him in October (or whenever next season begins).  Cozens or Mittelstadt will be the 2C 3 years from now or we're really in trouble; but this team goes to the playoffs next year with Cirelli on the roster (especially if goaltending is solidified).

And Cirelli would have either Olofsson or Skinner as 1 wing & either Johansson or Kahun on the other. How does that line get less than 50 points?

 

And, that would be a no on 7OA for Strome.  He should come cheaper than that.

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17 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

here is an impossible question to answer for you.  

In 3 years what would you prefer -   Holtz, Perfetti or Rossi vs Cerelli?  im not sold that Cerelli has offensive ability to drive a line that would put up 50 points with the Sabres.  He wont be playing with Stamkos and Kilhorn here.

would you trade the 7th overall for Dylan Strome? 

Does he play with Stamkos now? He played 241 minutes with Stamkos and 666 without Stamkos at 5v5. 

He would be playing with either Reinhart or Skinner so yes, I see no reason a player on pace for 50points this year wouldn't do it. Cirelli was on pace for 54 points this year if there were 82 games. 

I prefer Cirelli to Perfetti, Holtz, and Rossi because I don't have to wait 3 years. The Sabres ***** up. They should have done what I said in 2015 because the 3 years of suck would be over. Instead we ***** up more. 

Edited by LGR4GM

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20 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Won't speak for Liger, but would rather have Cirelli then, if that means having him in October (or whenever next season begins).  Cozens or Mittelstadt will be the 2C 3 years from now or we're really in trouble; but this team goes to the playoffs next year with Cirelli on the roster (especially if goaltending is solidified).

And Cirelli would have either Olofsson or Skinner as 1 wing & either Johansson or Kahun on the other. How does that line get less than 50 points?

 

And, that would be a no on 7OA for Strome.  He should come cheaper than that.

strome put up more PPG than Cerilli.  If strome is cheaper, wouldn't he be the better targer for the Sabres to going after? You'd have Strome and Perfetti. 

Hopefully people will remember that I desperately want the Sabres to fill their 2C and goaldtending Tandem before the start of next season. Just think it can be done without sacrificing the 2020 1st rounder.  

Edited by Crusader1969

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6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Does he play with Stamkos now?

He would be playing with either Reinhart or Skinner so yes, I see no reason a player on pace for 50points this year wouldn't do it. 

I prefer Cirelli to Perfetti, Holtz, and Rossi because I don't have to wait 3 years. The Sabres ***** up. They should have done what I said in 2015 because the 3 years of suck would be over. Instead we ***** up more. 

of course for next year we all prefer Cerelli to those three players. BUT its not totally about next year. its about the next 10 

yes, he played with Stamkos a lot.   36% of his offensive zone faceoffs he played with Stamkos (21% overall)  2nd highest percentage behind Cirelli playing with Killhron. Dont forget   Stamkos was hurt for awhile, so this number would be higher if he wasn't.     

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Strome barely did it. He also played with a certain goal scoring forward named Debrincat did he not?

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1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Strome barely did it. He also played with a certain goal scoring forward named Debrincat did he not?

That is correct. Had a lot of time with Kane as well.    

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Just now, Crusader1969 said:

of course for next year we all prefer Cerelli to those three players. BUT its not totally about next year. its about the next 10 

yes, he played with Stamkos a lot.   36% of his offensive zone faceoffs he played with Stamkos (21% overall)  2nd highest percentage behind Cirelli playing with Killhron. Dont forget   Stamkos was hurt for awhile, so this number would be higher if he wasn't.     

But the number is not higher. You can't just say it would be higher if X didn't happen. Cirelli (you could at least spell his name correct) played 26.5% of his 5v5 time with Stamkos. Also why wouldn't you put Stamkos out their for Ozone faceoffs? Also in what world is 36% a lot? That is 1/3. And again you failed to address the fact he would play with most likely Skinner. You act like he will come here and have to do it all on his own. 

I would trade 7th overall for Cirelli tomorrow because at the end of the day, Jack's window is about another 5-7 years and I don't want to shorten that to 3 years because I have to get this pick 100% correct. 

Don't you dare lecture me about it being about the next 10 years. I wanted long term planning in 2013 when they won a bunch of useless games and missed out on Mackinnon. Trade 7th for Cirelli because no matter who you get they are 2 years away from the NHL. 3 years away from being useful in the NHL and 4 years away from being truly impactful in the NHL. 

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Rossi could be better than Cirelli

Perfetti could be better than Cirelli

Raymond could be better than Cirelli

or they could all turn into Strome, a guy who is in his draft year +5 before being useful. Or they could be Nylander, and never be useful. 

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In my opinion Cirelli has a high floor at very least. If he can be a quicker ROR- lite than anything beyond that is gravy. At minimum he gives us a legitimate 2C the next couple years and an elite 3C for the rest.

I like him for three reasons, he’s fast, defensively minded, and has a mean streak. He’s not a power forward but isn’t scared to get in people’s faces. The guy fought Orpik as  a rookie or 2nd year player; so he is no wilting flower as they say.

 

Strome may have higher PPG but he doesn’t bring anything new to the table. He’s a lesser Sam Reinhart that plays center. He’s not particularly fast or strong, not a defensive train wreck but not a PK lynchpin. He’s at best an above average player if but with perfect linemates. Truly his only NHL success has been with Debrincat and/or Kane. One was his juniors teammate and the other is a future HOFer. Kane could make me, who can’t skate, a point producer.  

 

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37 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

strome put up more PPG than Cerilli. If strome is cheaper, wouldn't he be the better targer for the Sabres to going after? You'd have Strome and Perfetti.

Hopefully people will remember that I desperately want the Sabres to fill their 2C and goaldtending Tandem before the start of next season. Just think it can be done without sacrificing the 2020 1st rounder.  

He wouldn't necessarily be a better target.  Cirelli has shown a usefulness in his own end that Strome hasn't exhibited.  If Cozens pans out as expected, ideally he's the 2C 3 years out and then you're filling in Larsson's role (as the 3rd best & checking/ 2 way center) with this upcoming season's 2C.  Strome likely doesn't work in that role, but Cirelli should excel in it.  Pencil in Asplund as the 4th C and that's a great C spine with guys playing the wing like Mittelstadt (or Cozens, whichever isn't the 2C) and Kahun that can fill in at C to cover an inevitable injury there.  Perhaps even Johansson is still in the picture then.  

What Perfetti will be in 3 years is still up in the air.  We know what Cirelli & Strome are.  And all things considered Cirelli is better & enough so that he's worth the extra cost.  (Kind of the way O'Reilly was worth what it took to get him.)

Get a 2C and a better (& really it only needs to be marginally better) goaltending situation & these guys could make some hay.

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56 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

But the number is not higher. You can't just say it would be higher if X didn't happen. Cirelli (you could at least spell his name correct) played 26.5% of his 5v5 time with Stamkos. Also why wouldn't you put Stamkos out their for Ozone faceoffs? Also in what world is 36% a lot? That is 1/3. And again you failed to address the fact he would play with most likely Skinner. You act like he will come here and have to do it all on his own. 

I would trade 7th overall for Cirelli tomorrow because at the end of the day, Jack's window is about another 5-7 years and I don't want to shorten that to 3 years because I have to get this pick 100% correct. 

Don't you dare lecture me about it being about the next 10 years. I wanted long term planning in 2013 when they won a bunch of useless games and missed out on Mackinnon. Trade 7th for Cirelli because no matter who you get they are 2 years away from the NHL. 3 years away from being useful in the NHL and 4 years away from being truly impactful in the NHL. 

I don't think it was a lecture, just a point. 

We are also debating a mute point..if the  draft is in June, they can't trade the pick.

Maybe a new thread to what it would take to get Cerelli before the next season starts.   I'll go on record that they should trade their 2021 1st rounder (top 10 protected) plus a prospect.

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2 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

why does the 7th pick next year have to be NHL ready?  are the Sabres going to win the cup next year? would they even be a contender with Cerelli as the #2 Center? 

So sick of waiting for the future that never arrives...

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2 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

here is an impossible question to answer for you.  

In 3 years what would you prefer -   Holtz, Perfetti or Rossi vs Cerelli?  im not sold that Cerelli has offensive ability to drive a line that would put up 50 points with the Sabres.  He wont be playing with Stamkos and Kilhorn here.

would you trade the 7th overall for Dylan Strome? 

Hell no.

Cirelli is to Strome what Ryan O’Reilly is to Cody Hodgson.

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If you move to 3, I'd keep the pick and see if Byfield slides. If you stay at 7, get cirelli. 

Edited by LGR4GM
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