Randall Flagg Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 That is 2 years away (aging Sid, Geno) from being far and away the best center group in the NHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Don’t forget Kadri and they have a good d in Reilly and Liljegren and and Sandin will be serviceable. The Atlantic now goes through TO, no doubt. Yea, Toronto doesn't have a standout like Hedman or anything, but I think their group is collectively pretty underrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 They are going to hate this move in three years...what young player are they going to have to move down the road because they can't afford everyone I'm sure there 2 Stanley cups wont be enough to offset the bemoaning of JTs contract Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Yea, Toronto doesn't have a standout like Hedman or anything, but I think their group is collectively pretty underrated.Dermott is very good as well. They're winning playoff series this year, and a cup at some point soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 They are going to hate this move in three years...what young player are they going to have to move down the road because they can't afford everyone I'm sure there 2 Stanley cups wont be enough to offset the bemoaning of JTs contract Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Isn't he from Toronto? In any case Toronto is a popular place as a hockey player I would presume. Really? They are going to hate this move in three years...what young player are they going to have to move down the road because they can't afford everyone Maybe but they love it now and I would too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 That is 2 years away (aging Sid, Geno) from being far and away the best center group in the NHL. Ehhhhh. Maybe. Guy is generally a 60-70 point player. How will he be in 2 years at 30? Just picking one team off the top of my head: Matthews isn't in McDavid's league. Not close. Tavares at 30 will still make up some ground over Draisaitl if he's entering his prime as their 2C, but I'm not sure I don't take McDavid and Draisaitl over Matthews and Tavares now, nevermind when Tavares skills are beginning to erode. Nevermind "far and away". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Ehhhhh. Maybe. Guy is generally a 60-70 point player. How will he be in 2 years at 30? Just picking one team off the top of my head: Matthews isn't in McDavid's league. Not close. Tavares at 30 will still make up some ground over Draisaitl if he's entering his prime as their 2C, but I'm not sure I don't take McDavid and Draisaitl over Matthews and Tavares now, nevermind when Tavares skills are beginning to erode. Nevermind "far and away". Eeeeehhhhh. His career average is .92 points per game, or 76 over 82. He's had some nagging injuries bring the cumulative totals down, but put him in that Toronto offense? I'd bet he's safely around 80 for the foreseeable future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Draisaitl plays wing to McD and when he's at center his scoring Rate isn't all that different from Zemgus the last I checked. Toronto's 3C scored 30 goals a season ago. Matthews, had he played a full year, would have the most goals in the NHL over the last two seasons which contain his rookie and 2nd year. That is unbelievable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 (edited) Eeeeehhhhh. His career average is .92 points per game, or 76 over 82. He's had some nagging injuries bring the cumulative totals down, but put him in that Toronto offense? I'd bet he's safely around 80 for the foreseeable future. How often do players maintain their scoring pace into their 30's? I'll bet that more than offsets the change in offensive support. Assuming roughly the same luck with injuries, we're still looking at 70 points or so. Until his skills really start to erode in the latter half of the contract. Edited July 1, 2018 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 How often do players maintain their scoring pace into their 30's? I'll bet that more than offsets the change in offensive support. Assuming roughly the same luck with injuries, we're still looking at 70 points or so. They usually don't, but the elite players also don't suffer the dropoff that the good-but-not-great do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Moore to the Bruins The Boston Bruins have signed defenceman John Moore to a five-year, $13.75 million contract. The 27-year-old scored seven goals and 11 assists during the 2017-2018 regular season, and added one helper during the postseason for the New Jersey Devils. The deal carries a $2.75 million AAV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Draisaitl plays wing to McD and when he's at center his scoring Rate isn't all that different from Zemgus the last I checked. Toronto's 3C scored 30 goals a season ago. Matthews, had he played a full year, would have the most goals in the NHL over the last two seasons which contain his rookie and 2nd year. That is unbelievable. Centers are also responsible for passing the puck. I'd argue that's their most important function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Centers are also responsible for passing the puck. I'd argue that's their most important function. Eh, when your top wingers are Marner and Nylander (better passers than goal scorers), i don't think so. What matters is the mix up front. Toronto may have an unconventional mix, but I think it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 (edited) They usually don't, but the elite players also don't suffer the dropoff that the good-but-not-great do. Right. So he's a 70 point player with numbers that will start to take a hit with age fairly soon. As good as Tavares is, his name and rep is still greater than his results. Edited July 1, 2018 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Centers are also responsible for passing the puck. I'd argue that's their most important function.Is that supposed to downplay an objectively good and amazing feat? Is there a fatal flaw in Marner and Nylander being the amazing passers from the wing? It seems to work pretty well considering an ELC offense was 3rd or something in goals for at even strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Is that supposed to downplay an objectively good and amazing feat? Is there a fatal flaw in Marner and Nylander being the amazing passers from the wing? It seems to work pretty well considering an ELC offense was 3rd or something in goals for at even strength. Goalposts. You were talking centres. Not production from the top 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 If Jack Sam ROR led our season to being identical to toronto's and some Toronto fan brought those comments here they'd be laughed and berated into oblivion is all We're trying so hard to not be miserable about today IMO Goalposts. You were talking centres. Not production from the top 6. Well sure, I still stand by the claim. I kinda lost track of what I was saying in which threads on mobile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatorman0519 Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Subtract JVR and Bozak production and there is not a big difference for Toronto. The question will be what he can do in the playoffs vs the other two. I’m not handing Toronto the cup yet. We’ll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 If Jack Sam ROR led our season to being identical to toronto's and some Toronto fan brought those comments here they'd be laughed and berated into oblivion is all We're trying so hard to not be miserable about today IMO Yup. It's soul crushing that Toronto landed Tavares; the natural reaction is to make it not as bad as it is. But sometimes Occam's Razor really does apply. Toronto just added one of the 10 best centers in the league without giving up a single thing. It sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 If Jack Sam ROR led our season to being identical to toronto's and some Toronto fan brought those comments here they'd be laughed and berated into oblivion is all We're trying so hard to not be miserable about today IMO Not at all. I'm not miserable at all and it doesn't make sense to try and infer my mindset. Tavares is really good. He's also a 70 point player who'll be in the 60s or lower half way through the deal. That's still really good. But I'm not miserable about it because it's no Crosby and Malkin in their prime, not close, and the Pens lost all the time, too. Even if they won a lot too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Subtract JVR and Bozak production and there is not a big difference for Toronto. The question will be what he can do in the playoffs vs the other two. I’m not handing Toronto the cup yet. We’ll see. Tavares' on-ice impact and influence on matchups and how everyone else slots in is not easily measured by points on paper. Look at it this way, Toronto's center spine just went from Matthews-Kadri-Bozak to Tavares-Matthews-Kadri. Their 3rd line center is a 30-goal scorer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Yup. It's soul crushing that Toronto landed Tavares; the natural reaction is to make it not as bad as it is. But sometimes Occam's Razor really does apply. Toronto just added one of the 10 best centers in the league without giving up a single thing. It sucks. It's really not. It is what it is. They'll still be beatable, it's hockey, this is fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Matthews is still pouting from a poor playoff and now they'll probably give Tavares the C. Mixed emotions for that kid, wondering if there is still room for his payday, and he will have to share the adoration of the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorner Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Is that supposed to downplay an objectively good and amazing feat? Is there a fatal flaw in Marner and Nylander being the amazing passers from the wing? It seems to work pretty well considering an ELC offense was 3rd or something in goals for at even strength. But the lack of playmaking from Matthews still factors into his value as a centre, in a vacuum. Regardless of his fit with his wings. You have to isolate the player you are attempting to rank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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