Game Discussion Thread Buffalo at Philadelphia 7pm EST MSG, GR

[JohnRobertEichel]

Me too.  He doesn't have speed and he doesn't have size.  Bad combination having to rely on brains and (open for debate) hands.  But, they can't let him walk for nothing this summer.  Better make a move soon.

 

He's an RFA, so he's not going to walk away without compensation.

 

I strongly suggest we not give up on Reinhart. He's playing poorly and has regressed from the previous two years. But so has this entire team to varying degrees. He's only 22 years old and can't really maximize his potential on this current team because there are not enough good wingers on the roster for which Reinhart can center a line.

 

He may not be particularly fast or big for NHL standards, but I also wouldn't characterize him as slow or small either.

[PASabreFan]

Reinhart skates like he's at the end of his career. Gionta would be a better option at this point.

Balance problems too? He stumbles and twists and goes to the ice a lot.

[woods-racer]

Balance problems too? He stumbles and twists and goes to the ice a lot.

 

He could have something going on, it is quite noticeable from previous years. Before Cody Hodgson I would think he's just slacking, now one has to wonder if it's more than *lack of compete*.

[darksabre]

He could have something going on, it is quite noticeable from previous years. Before Cody Hodgson I would think he's just slacking, now one has to wonder if it's more than *lack of compete*.

I think he's just not that strong. He plays an incredibly weak game for someone who is 6'-1". 

[North Buffalo]

I think he's just not that strong. He plays an incredibly weak game for someone who is 6'-1".

 

I saw him make a few good hits last night, but then on the next shift he oleys a guy or doesnt finish his check. Dude needs some nasty, again gotta piss him off somehow so he plays with some consistent fire all game.

[woods-racer]

I think he's just not that strong. He plays an incredibly weak game for someone who is 6'-1". 

 

He was always solid in front of the net. Now it's a game or two here and there you seem him on the edge of the crease. I swear that is where 90% of his goals came from and he's not there to score them this year. Hard for me to believe the coaches aren't wanting him in  front of the net.

[PASabreFan]

Think about environmental factors when evaluating Sam, Jack, Diane, whoever. Plop them down in Pittsburgh or Columbus or Las Vegas and see what we have. (No duh, PA.) Which is why I will never be mad at GMTM for trying to speed dial the rebuild in early 2015. Having Risto, Sam and Jack and other kids on a good team was the right idea. The whole thing is toxic now and these kids are suffering, perhaps irreparably.

[bcsaberks]

First period wasn't bad, but after the 2nd philly goal in the second they locked it down.  Sabres had a few close calls later on that could easily have gone including Scandella point blank, but puck luck was not with the Sabres and Philly played solid lock down D.  2nd Philly goal had EROD and Sam not covering the open guy... How do you brain fart like that, lift the guys stick at least... hit him... something... Sam too often doesn't finish his checks.  It is not a game of Shinny... Sam needs to learn to play nasty... way too affable.

Biron & Duff blamed Kane for 2nd goal, said Erod and Sam were on way out of zone anticipating Kane clearing it.  They couldn't recover quick enough to get back and pick-up shooter.  I haven't seen a good replay.  Not to stick up for Reinhart, he has been very disappointing.  Remember when the debate was "Which Sam?"  The other one the same, struggling.  Looking at that draft, Syracuse's Alex Tuch is showing well.   

[Eleven]

He was always solid in front of the net. Now it's a game or two here and there you seem him on the edge of the crease. I swear that is where 90% of his goals came from and he's not there to score them this year. Hard for me to believe the coaches aren't wanting him in  front of the net.

 

I don't see too many Sabres parked in front of the net at all this year.  Might be a Phil thing.

 

That said, I agree w/ posts above that Reinhart needs some nasty.  Maybe they should take away his action figures or something to make him mad.

[North Buffalo]

Biron & Duff blamed Kane for 2nd goal, said Erod and Sam were on way out of zone anticipating Kane clearing it.  They couldn't recover quick enough to get back and pick-up shooter.  I haven't seen a good replay.  Not to stick up for Reinhart, he has been very disappointing.  Remember when the debate was "Which Sam?"  The other one the same, struggling.  Looking at that draft, Syracuse's Alex Tuch is showing well.

 

Saw the play and replay, yes Kane should have cleared but it was a good keep in. Both Erod and especially Sam were both there but stopped skating and didnt pick up the open guy. Sam went the wrong way to where other guy who was covered by D and Erod coasted may have been outta gas. Sam needed to make that play... effort issue imo.

[darksabre]

I don't see too many Sabres parked in front of the net at all this year.  Might be a Phil thing.

 

That said, I agree w/ posts above that Reinhart needs some nasty.  Maybe they should take away his action figures or something to make him mad.

I know this is tongue-in-cheek, but I've posited before that I think Reinhart is the real problem if you want to look for the ring leader of the core who is a bad influence on someone like Eichel. I think Sam is sneaky lazy. 

[Cityo'Rasmii]

I don't see too many Sabres parked in front of the net at all this year.  Might be a Phil thing.

 

That said, I agree w/ posts above that Reinhart needs some nasty.  Maybe they should take away his action figures or something to make him mad.

lose the tandem bike while at it

 

and watch some vintage Andreychuk films

Edited December 15, 2017 by Falkenate

[jsb]

Saw the play and replay, yes Kane should have cleared but it was a good keep in. Both Erod and especially Sam were both there but stopped skating and didnt pick up the open guy. Sam went the wrong way to where other guy who was covered by D and Erod coasted may have been outta gas. Sam needed to make that play... effort issue imo.

That was my take on the play, Kane didn't clear the zone and then after a long shift it appeared (I'd rather take the high road) Sam and ERod were out of gas and couldn't get back. If we score 3-4-5 goals and win the game, I don't think the play is noticeable, but when you score 1 and it's the winning goal and your team is playing like doodoo most of the year, it becomes a highlight play that everyone remembers. 

I also remember the member formerly known as Thorny blamed Bogosian on the play. I agree with him most of the time but in this instance I don't have a clue what he was looking at because Bogo had his man covered IMO

 

As for Reinhart, I'm beginning to think he doesn't work in the offseason on his game enough. I don't see improvements in his game from year to year. 

Having said that his line of Kane and ERod did have the most dangerous chances although he's not leading the charge. I also think it's noteworthy that ERod is the C on that line and Sam is his winger instead of the other way around. I think that says alot about what the organization thinks of him at the Center position.

Edited December 15, 2017 by JSBeersson

[North Buffalo]

I know this is tongue-in-cheek, but I've posited before that I think Reinhart is the real problem if you want to look for the ring leader of the core who is a bad influence on someone like Eichel. I think Sam is sneaky lazy.

 

Kinda like the quiet kid who starts all the trouble but it takes a while for the teacher to figure out who is really pulling the strings or instigating the bad behavior.

[darksabre]

Kinda like the quiet kid who starts all the trouble but it takes a while for the teacher to figure out who is really pulling the strings or instigating the bad behavior.

Right. And I'm not going to say that he's like...actively malicious. I just think he's probably not an overwhelmingly positive influence either. I doubt he's putting in the extra work at the gym or on the ice.  I doubt he's religiously studying game tape. Things like that. And since he and Eichel are buds...

[Gramps]

lose the tandem bike while at it

 

and watch some vintage Andreychuk films

 

Won't help him - Andreychuk was 6'4" and strong as a bull. 

[Cityo'Rasmii]

then he should ride pine

[pi2000]

Right. And I'm not going to say that he's like...actively malicious. I just think he's probably not an overwhelmingly positive influence either. I doubt he's putting in the extra work at the gym or on the ice.  I doubt he's religiously studying game tape. Things like that. And since he and Eichel are buds...

 

If he was a little bit stronger maybe he scores on that giveway by Elliott and puts them up 2-0, and it's a completely different game at that point.  It's those little things this team hasn't figured out how to do yet.   They can't bear down and win a battle to score a timely goal.   Compete level isn't where it needs to be.    I blame Housley, and it's not a system issue, it's a motivation issue, he was a soft player and he's a soft coach.     They're at the bottom of the league and I can't remember him benching anybody in any game even for a single period.    What kind of message does that send?

[darksabre]

If he was a little bit stronger maybe he scores on that giveway by Elliott and puts them up 2-0, and it's a completely different game at that point.  It's those little things this team hasn't figured out how to do yet.   They can't bear down and win a battle to score a timely goal.   Compete level isn't where it needs to be.    I blame Housley, and it's not a system issue, it's a motivation issue, he was a soft player and he's a soft coach.     They're at the bottom of the league and I can't remember him benching anybody in any game even for a single period.    What kind of message does that send?

I don't blame Housley. I think he needed to settle in first and get to know the team, the players. Develop a rapport. He's a first-time head coach after all and this problem wasn't going to fix itself overnight. These guys were like this before he ever got here.

 

I think guys like O'Reilly and Okposo benefit more from playing than not playing, so benching them really doesn't get you anywhere. 

 

Girgensons was the latest benching victim and rightly so. We know he can play better and he responded last night. Housley will bench people when it's appropriate. 

Sam's had his line/ ice time demotions but I don't think it matters much. I think he's behind physically and that isn't something you can really do anything about until the off-season. It's distinctly possible that he really is doing his best, but that his best isn't enough, because he isn't prepared to offer more. 

 

I like the things that have been done so far by Housley (and Botterill) to get individual players to respond. I think they're both getting comfortable now and feel like they can start taking some action. 

 

[pi2000]

I don't blame Housley. I think he needed to settle in first and get to know the team, the players. Develop a rapport. He's a first-time head coach after all and this problem wasn't going to fix itself overnight. These guys were like this before he ever got here.

 

I think guys like O'Reilly and Okposo benefit more from playing than not playing, so benching them really doesn't get you anywhere. 

 

Girgensons was the latest benching victim and rightly so. We know he can play better and he responded last night. Housley will bench people when it's appropriate. 

Sam's had his line/ ice time demotions but I don't think it matters much. I think he's behind physically and that isn't something you can really do anything about until the off-season. It's distinctly possible that he really is doing his best, but that his best isn't enough, because he isn't prepared to offer more. 

 

I like the things that have been done so far by Housley (and Botterill) to get individual players to respond. I think they're both getting comfortable now and feel like they can start taking some action. 

 

 

I think Housley is a fine coach.. for a veteran team that's already learned how to work hard every shift.    He's not the right fit for this group at this time... they're still figuring how to bring a consistent effort shift by shift.. .and that requires a disciplinarian, not a tactician.    I just don't think he's demanding enough and it shows on the ice.   

 

Bylsma was a better disciplinarian than Housley, he was more demanding and they had better results (with a worse roster).    Sure, young players may not have liked that style, but it's what's best for their development.... now they've taken a step back in the wrong direction, lazy play, developing bad habits, it's a mess... and that falls on the head coach.  

[darksabre]

I think Housley is a fine coach.. for a veteran team that's already learned how to work hard every shift.    He's not the right fit for this group at this time... they're still figuring how to bring a consistent effort shift by shift.. .and that requires a disciplinarian, not a tactician.    I just don't think he's demanding enough and it shows on the ice.   

 

Bylsma was a better disciplinarian than Housley, he was more demanding and they had better results (with a worse roster).    Sure, young players may not have liked that style, but it's what's best for their development.... now they've taken a step back in the wrong direction, lazy play, developing bad habits, it's a mess... and that falls on the head coach.  

I don't agree with this at all. Bylsma was fired precisely because he didn't do the things with the players that he needed to. And GMTM was fired because he was paying zero attention to it. 

 

I think you'll find Housley perfectly capable of discipline. But you have to be patient and let him develop a working relationship with the players first. You can't just walk in like John Wayne to your first head coaching job and start throwing haymakers before you even know who to target. 

[North Buffalo]

I think Housley is a fine coach.. for a veteran team that's already learned how to work hard every shift.    He's not the right fit for this group at this time... they're still figuring how to bring a consistent effort shift by shift.. .and that requires a disciplinarian, not a tactician.    I just don't think he's demanding enough and it shows on the ice.   

 

Bylsma was a better disciplinarian than Housley, he was more demanding and they had better results (with a worse roster).    Sure, young players may not have liked that style, but it's what's best for their development.... now they've taken a step back in the wrong direction, lazy play, developing bad habits, it's a mess... and that falls on the head coach.

 

So you are saying a Torts protege.

[pi2000]

I don't agree with this at all. Bylsma was fired precisely because he didn't do the things with the players that he needed to. And GMTM was fired because he was paying zero attention to it. 

 

I think you'll find Housley perfectly capable of discipline. But you have to be patient and let him develop a working relationship with the players first. You can't just walk in like John Wayne to your first head coaching job and start throwing haymakers before you even know who to target. 

 

So basically throw away an entire season just to get to know everybody better?   I disagree strongly with this.    Look what Gallant has done in Vegas.   He's hard on the guys, expects a lot and they play like their hair's on fire because of his leadership.    Housley wouldn't have that team anywhere near a playoff spot, but hey... he'd be "getting to know everybody really well"... right?

 

So you are saying a Torts protege.

 

Not necessarily Torts, but somebody who isn't there to just to make friends.

[North Buffalo]

Again probably back to the Chris Taylor discussion, but I get the sense Housley’s patience is wearing thin... He was an arrogant sob as a player but loves to coach up self motivated talent. Itll work once Sabres accumulate enough talent. I still think Id like to see that team better than a Torts team so Im willing to to be patient. Besides I dont want to see Sam cry..

[darksabre]

So basically throw away an entire season just to get to know everybody better?   I disagree strongly with this.    Look what Gallant has done in Vegas.   He's hard on the guys, expects a lot and they play like their hair's on fire because of his leadership.    Housley wouldn't have that team anywhere near a playoff spot, but hey... he'd be "getting to know everybody really well"... right?

 

 

Not necessarily Torts, but somebody who isn't there to just to make friends.

For one thing, this season was never going to be anything other than evaluation and development. That much is obvious now. And I think the results so far are indicative that this process is working. We're 30 games in and players are being shopped, guys are getting benched. Trades are getting made. Given how little real, actual progress Bylsma made in two years, we should probably be realistic about this team being where it is. I don't think things could progress any quicker given the sorry state of the team as a whole. 

 

Gallant in Vegas is a completely different situation. They're an upstart team of guys who needed to come in and get things going real fast. No history to worry about. No team cultures to break.  No systems to unlearn. No "stars" beyond a couple of aging vets. Every guy there is competing for a job because only a few of them have contracts beyond next season. 

 

Botterill has said that he wants to get some competition going on this team. Too many guys with nice contracts, too many guys not feeling the heat from players in the minors. He's starting to follow through on it now because clearly it is a major problem. This team has had a miserable few years, including the tanks. There are a lot of problems to be solved that a team like Vegas simply doesn't have to deal with. 

Edited December 15, 2017 by mörksabre