Evander Kane : Two crime reports filed in nightclub incident

[...]

WildCard, on 08 Jul 2016 - 1:16 PM, said:

Not for a minimal price though. Might as well hold onto him for the expansion draft if the price is lousy

 

...and manage Kane's behavior as best as possible until that point. So, time passes and Kane is "quiet" enough that his trade value raises high enough, or he becomes an expansion sacrifice for the team.  In either scenario he benefits the team.

[akm]

Funny how people say Kane has played his last game for the Sabres, should be fired, etc. for getting into an altercation at a bar and faces no criminal charges, but mums the word about O'Reilly who drank himself retarded, hopped behind the wheel and rammed a Tim Hortons before fleeing the scene.

 

It is fair to ask the question of whether race is a factor, in my opinion.

[K-9]

Funny how people say Kane has played his last game for the Sabres, should be fired, etc. for getting into an altercation at a bar and faces no criminal charges, but mums the word about O'Reilly who drank himself retarded, hopped behind the wheel and rammed a Tim Hortons before fleeing the scene.

 

It is fair to ask the question of whether race is a factor, in my opinion.

False equivalency, imo. It's the differences in their respective scrapes with the law. There is just something fundamentally different about a one time DUI that caused property damage a year ago vs. physically abusing people, including women at a bar and another incident that triggered an investigation into possible physical/sexual abuse of a woman within months of each other. 

 

Both are certainly bad optics for the organization, but one is suggestive of a pattern of behavior. Race wouldn't have anything to do with it either, if O'Reilly's and Kane's roles in their respective incidents were reversed. O'Reilly would be viewed far more negatively than Kane if that were the case. 

[akm]

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I can easily make a case that running your vehicle into something while drunk as a skunk is a bigger lapse in judgement with far more serious potential consequences than some pushing and shoving in a bar at 3am, but we'll probably have to agree to disagree.

 

It seems like there is the inclination for people to look at Kane's situation as a pattern of moral scumbaggery making him a bad dude, while O'Reilly was just a good person that had a one-time lapse of judgement that just caused a tiny bit of property damage, no harm no foul.

 

And, that may 100% be true.  Or, it may indicate some kind of bias.  Certainly worth asking yourself the question, though - at least I'll ask it of myself.

[nfreeman]

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I can easily make a case that running your vehicle into something while drunk as a skunk is a bigger lapse in judgement with far more serious potential consequences than some pushing and shoving in a bar at 3am, but we'll probably have to agree to disagree.

 

It seems like there is the inclination for people to look at Kane's situation as a pattern of moral scumbaggery making him a bad dude, while O'Reilly was just a good person that had a one-time lapse of judgement that just caused a tiny bit of property damage, no harm no foul.

 

And, that may 100% be true.  Or, it may indicate some kind of bias.  Certainly worth asking yourself the question, though - at least I'll ask it of myself.

 

I think this is fair to an extent, but the comparison is pretty distorted due to lack of information about the Kane incidents.  We know more or less exactly what happened in the ROR incident.  As you said, it could've been terrible, but it ended up being harmless.

 

OTOH, we have no idea what really happened in either Kane incident, but what we did hear -- with zero verification -- was that both incidents involved alleged physical attacks on women.  Those are sensational allegations that tend to stick in the reader's mind, regardless of whether the accused is subsequently exonerated.  (And this is a good argument for either publicizing the name of the accuser along with the accused, or for publicizing neither.)

[beerme1]

Funny how people say Kane has played his last game for the Sabres, should be fired, etc. for getting into an altercation at a bar and faces no criminal charges, but mums the word about O'Reilly who drank himself retarded, hopped behind the wheel and rammed a Tim Hortons before fleeing the scene.

 

It is fair to ask the question of whether race is a factor, in my opinion.

 

I don't think is fair since you are in fact saying this is a race issue.

 

First there is one person I believe saying he's played his last game. O'Reilly has a lengthy thread somewhere on here discussing his legal sin. His record was clean before and since then and he's been a model citizen.

You certainly can't say that about Kane. A bloodied girl, and then relatively soon afterwards on a night when the hockey world descended on us and then he has more violence based women claims come out and whatever is going to come from this, he has been given two lesser charges because the woman who could claim the felony isn't coming forward and then you have the resulting thread based on the immediate situation at hand.

 

I don't think it is the least bit fair to claim this as a race issue. In fact I guarantee you that Kane has been made to feel at home here regardless the color of his skin possibly more than anywhere in his life.

 

 

I think this is fair to an extent, but the comparison is pretty distorted due to lack of information about the Kane incidents.  We know more or less exactly what happened in the ROR incident.  As you said, it could've been terrible, but it ended up being harmless.

 

 

As stated above I don't that the comments are fair and soon enough, O'Reilly will be paying for his sin.

[Thorny]

I am pretty sure Kaner doesn't drink alcohol...maybe he should start?

Does anyone think he starts the season in a Sabres' uni? Thorny?

Huckleberry, why do you think Murray won't trade him?

 

Not sure what Duff's wings are but rarely eat chicken and I don't see Laine going anywhere for the next decade or so. I am pretty sure the Nucks would take a chance on him...the Jets, not so much.

He probably starts the season as a Sabre because they aren't going to be able to trade him for anything. Just the way it is. Not getting into the whether he should or shouldn't be starting the season here.

 

Rest assured that if he doesn't, we have had enough reminding of your bet that he won't be finishing his contract here, it won't fail to be acknowledged. Maybe then we can finally move on.

[...]

akm, on 08 Jul 2016 - 2:03 PM, said:

Funny how people say Kane has played his last game for the Sabres, should be fired, etc. for getting into an altercation at a bar and faces no criminal charges, but mums the word about O'Reilly who drank himself retarded, hopped behind the wheel and rammed a Tim Hortons before fleeing the scene.

 

It is fair to ask the question of whether race is a factor, in my opinion.

 

What have we heard about ROR antics since?  Were we treated to ROR antics prior to his DWI incident?

 

I think ROR released a video on how to train and on leadership prior to this.

 

What did we know about Kane prior to this?  Do we need to recount the antics? 

 

A repeat "offensive person" is a repeat "offensive person" regardless of skin color.

 

And, frankly, screw your attempt at injecting white-guilt into this conversation.  This board is far better than that.

[akm]

Kane has no criminal record.  O'Reilly likely soon will.  These are facts.

 

No assault or battery charges have been filed against Kane.  I repeat, he has never been charged with a crime, let alone convicted of one.

 

If the police didn't see fit to charge Kane with a crime, then why should we?  Clearly, if he was punching out women on the regular there would have been a criminal charge filed.

 

I'm not injecting anything in this conversation, I'm merely making observations as to how two players are perceived.

 

I'm honestly not sure why O'Reilly gets a pass and Kane gets a fail.  Could race be an issue?  Perhaps.  Could on-ice production be an issue? Perhaps.  Could O'Reilly be a great guy who made a terrible mistake, but Kane is a garbage person who does garbage things? Perhaps.

[K-9]

Kane has no criminal record.  O'Reilly likely soon will.  These are facts.

 

No assault or battery charges have been filed against Kane.  I repeat, he has never been charged with a crime, let alone convicted of one.

 

If the police didn't see fit to charge Kane with a crime, then why should we?  Clearly, if he was punching out women on the regular there would have been a criminal charge filed.

 

I'm not injecting anything in this conversation, I'm merely making observations as to how two players are perceived.

 

I'm honestly not sure why O'Reilly gets a pass and Kane gets a fail.  Could race be an issue?  Perhaps.  Could on-ice production be an issue? Perhaps.  Could O'Reilly be a great guy who made a terrible mistake, but Kane is a garbage person who does garbage things? Perhaps.

Vogl's recent article citing police sources is pretty damning. I fully understand Cambria's response as that is what he is retained to do. But it is a very bad optic, regardless. 

 

http://sabres.buffalonews.com/2016/07/07/evander-kane-will-face-non-criminal-charges-for-buffalo-bar-incidents/

 

Everyone I know has been willing to believe the best about Kane and we were all relieved to hear the police investigation into the December incident didn't go anywhere. But the bar scene has changed that for a lot of people, me included. Getting physical with women at a bar is egregious behavior and lends validity to the December incident as well. 

 

I don't think Kane is long for this team, regardless of the disposition of any forthcoming police charges, as these incidents are indicative of a pattern of behavior and I can't see the organization continuing to risk the brand in the hopes that Kane will somehow grow up in time. This transcends the simple equation of needing to get value for him in a trade, etc. It even transcends what he brings to the team on the ice, which is nothing short of a talented player that gives 100% and is a pain to play against.  It's just not a simple case of the organization, including teammates, accepting his aloofness off the ice because of his commitment to them on it. An outright buyout is not out of the question here. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if this thing continues to heat up. 

[...]

akm, on 08 Jul 2016 - 4:05 PM, said:

Kane has no criminal record.  O'Reilly likely soon will.  These are facts.

 

No assault or battery charges have been filed against Kane.  I repeat, he has never been charged with a crime, let alone convicted of one.

 

If the police didn't see fit to charge Kane with a crime, then why should we?  Clearly, if he was punching out women on the regular there would have been a criminal charge filed.

 

I'm not injecting anything in this conversation, I'm merely making observations as to how two players are perceived.

 

I'm honestly not sure why O'Reilly gets a pass and Kane gets a fail.  Could race be an issue?  Perhaps.  Could on-ice production be an issue? Perhaps.  Could O'Reilly be a great guy who made a terrible mistake, but Kane is a garbage person who does garbage things? Perhaps.

 

Kane's reputation preceded him, and prior to this he was already the subject of an investigation.  ROR's reputation preceded him, too, for what that's worth. You're talking apples and oranges.  Kane was and is a reformation project marked by multiple publickly known incidents.  ROR had one public incident...period.

 

We're all allowed to err.  ROR erred once.  Kane seems to routinely err.  That's the difference. 

[LGR4GM]

"Lends validity to the December incident", the one where the lady herself told police it was all consensual. Dear god what the ppl? He did something in June and deserves that to go to court but trying to paint this December event as in the same vain without proof is just pathetic.

 

I can't handle this thread. No one's seen anything but guy is guilty already. He very well might be. If so buh bye but I'll let this play out first. Liger out.

[beerme1]

I'm not injecting anything in this conversation, I'm merely making observations as to how two players are perceived.

 

I'm honestly not sure why O'Reilly gets a pass and Kane gets a fail.  Could race be an issue?  Perhaps.  Could on-ice production be an issue? Perhaps.  Could O'Reilly be a great guy who made a terrible mistake, but Kane is a garbage person who does garbage things? Perhaps.

 

So what are you asking then?

 

 

"Lends validity to the December incident", the one where the lady herself told police it was all consensual. Dear god what the ###### ppl? He did something in June and deserves that to go to court but trying to paint this December event as in the same vain without proof is just pathetic.

 

I can't handle this thread. No one's seen anything but guy is guilty already. He very well might be. If so buh bye but I'll let this play out first. Liger out.

 

I had to step out of the December incident thread because the allegations and reaction was over the top both ways. My two bits is that a girl left the scene bleeding. No charges and consensual something. Okay but a girl left the scene bleeding and that is followed up with the June incident where the woman who could pursue a felony evidently isn't going to so they get him on two violations. Pattern is established and Kim Pegula is doing a lot against domestic violence in the NFL. You know, Kim Pegula. May have some swag here at the end of the day.

 

And, frankly, screw your attempt at injecting white-guilt into this conversation.  This board is far better than that.

 

Agreed given the context of the questions followed up by back pedaling followed by more of the original context. Wrong path he's going down on this one.

[akm]

Questioning why people are quicker to run a black guy who made a lapse in judgement out of town than a white guy who made a worse one is some indication of white guilt? Who says I'm even white? Bizarre.

[K-9]

Questioning why people are quicker to run a black guy who made a lapse in judgement out of town than a white guy who made a worse one is some indication of white guilt? Who says I'm even white? Bizarre.

Again, you insist on making it about a black guy when it isn't. It's about the level of egregiousness involved. As I said, if O'Reilly was the one suspected of physically abusing women, we'd "run" him just as readily. 

 

There are certainly times when race plays a role in an issue. This simply isn't one of those times. 

[LTS]

Here's how I look at it.

 

Right now Kane has made a habit of portraying the playboy lifestyle.  His photos with money, his speedometer pictures, etc.  O'Reilly doesn't have that.

 

O'Reilly's "mistake" was serious and thankfully no one was hurt. I think the biggest difference for me is how each of those two has reacted to events in their lives.

 

Kane continues to stay in the playboy lifestyle and through that seems content to keep putting himself into the conversation about "bad choices"..  O'Reilly appears to be a bit more careful.  

[nfreeman]

Questioning why people are quicker to run a black guy who made a lapse in judgement out of town than a white guy who made a worse one is some indication of white guilt? Who says I'm even white? Bizarre.

 

I think this assumption is where your argument falls apart.  Until we have more facts we just don't know which was worse -- and most here feel that if Kane did indeed do what he's accused of doing, then what he did was worse. 

[GoPre]

I think this assumption is where your argument falls apart.  Until we have more facts we just don't know which was worse -- and most here feel that if Kane did indeed do what he's accused of doing, then what he did was worse. 

 

Not taking sides in this debate, but gotta say what if it wasn't a Tim Horton's O'Reilly hit when under the influence? What if it was another car and someone was seriously hurt or killed? Just something to consider when comparing the two.  

[Eleven]

Not taking sides in this debate, but gotta say what if it wasn't a Tim Horton's O'Reilly hit when under the influence? What if it was another car and someone was seriously hurt or killed? Just something to consider when comparing the two.  

 

And what if it wasn't a woman that Kane allegedly had a tight grip on, but a pool cue?

[nfreeman]

Not taking sides in this debate, but gotta say what if it wasn't a Tim Horton's O'Reilly hit when under the influence? What if it was another car and someone was seriously hurt or killed? Just something to consider when comparing the two.  

 

This is fair, and I think was similar to akm's point.  DWI is a serious matter.  But Kane was accused of choking a woman and trying to force her into his car (with the implication that he presumably was going to do something else once he got her into the car).  That's a pretty awful scenario. 

 

(NB as I've posted previously I am pretty skeptical about the truth of the accusations, but again we don't have any facts.)

[K-9]

"Lends validity to the December incident", the one where the lady herself told police it was all consensual. Dear god what the ###### ppl? He did something in June and deserves that to go to court but trying to paint this December event as in the same vain without proof is just pathetic.

 

I can't handle this thread. No one's seen anything but guy is guilty already. He very well might be. If so buh bye but I'll let this play out first. Liger out.

Yes, lends validity to the December event in that it's more difficult to give him the benefit of the doubt about whether he is capable of exhibiting aggressive physical behavior towards women. We were all happy to give him that benefit of the doubt at the time.  And not for nothing but the lady didn't say it was consensual, she said she couldn't remember the events. 

 

Nobody is saying he's guilty from what I can tell. But the police report is damning no matter how you slice it and non-criminal charges doesn't lesson the inappropriateness of his actions. 

[LGR4GM]

Yes, lends validity to the December event in that it's more difficult to give him the benefit of the doubt about whether he is capable of exhibiting aggressive physical behavior towards women. We were all happy to give him that benefit of the doubt at the time. And not for nothing but the lady didn't say it was consensual, she said she couldn't remember the events.

 

Nobody is saying he's guilty from what I can tell. But the police report is damning no matter how you slice it and non-criminal charges doesn't lesson the inappropriateness of his actions.

The whole incident is troublesome if true. If he did what the police reports allege that's serious. Unfortunately I don't have enough facts to comfortably judge this yet. A lot of rumors and I'm willing to wait and see before condemning him.

[K-9]

The whole incident is troublesome if true. If he did what the police reports allege that's serious. Unfortunately I don't have enough facts to comfortably judge this yet. A lot of rumors and I'm willing to wait and see before condemning him.

Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. 

 

But the organization may not have the same patience, I'm afraid. 

[GoPre]

Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. 

 

But the organization may not have the same patience, I'm afraid. 

 

Different professions, organizations, etc.... have different standards. Many people, depending on their profession, would've been terminated by now. 

[qwksndmonster]

Blech.

 

I don't trust Kane as a human being anymore.  He's a good player, but I'm really not sure if I still want him on the team.

 

Even if this incident goes the way of the last one (radio silence for 2 months and then it's quietly said to have been nothing), I can't trust that Kane didn't do anything.  Our justice system has failed too many women in the past.