SDS Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 So you wanted the brain trust which you just criticized to allow Nolan to run this team to the magical 6-10th place finish they were going to achieve instead of doing what Murray did which is think long term and sacrifice a wasted season to get one of the 2 best players to enter the draft in probably 6-8 years? You are arguing with someone who uses "Karma" as a discussion point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eman Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 LGR4GM: Edmonton wasn't such a wasteland when Gretzky and Messier were there. Stanley Cup final ratings were big time! With that young talented lineup, it could be the 80's all over again! Ask the L.A Kings how finishing 6-8th works if you have hard work, dedication and some great goaltending. (and they came out of the big bad Western Conference) Are we getting Jack Eichel? What happens if he does decide to go back to Boston College for another season (I would say it is highly unlikely but it is possible) Does he re-enter the next draft or do the Sabres hold his rights. I believe he goes back in the draft but i could be mistaken there. Now whose argument isn''t all that correct? I don't wish to argue with any of you , really. The bottom line is this: we are all Sabres fans who are desperate for winning hockey here (at least i am) I want nothiong more then for this team to hoist a Cup in my lifetime but as i hit 50 this year I question their tactics from time to time. Is that wrong of me? To expect more from a team I choose to spend my money and time on? I will gladly, (believe me gladly) accept the fact i am wrong and take all the crap thrown at me should this team turn it around and become a serious contender. Tanking is not my way of proven success. just because it worked for Pittsburgh. You need a sharp GM and a great coach and a great team of scouts to keep your organization competitive. Winning your Conference is hardly a given to a Stanley Cup. that is how I would like to see this organization formed. Hell, i really like Jack Eichel as i have said in previous posts. he looked great at the World's and i hope he plays with gusto to stick it to all who think he's the consolation prize. to me tanking is the easy way out while subjecting your fan base to a brutal product in "the hopes" of possibly getting a great player. Hey Randall Flagg: Keep telling yourself that........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 And more great "bad karma" examples. Oh and maybe trot out some more of the classic anti-tank strawmen too. c'mon... he was "the only one" who saw us not getting McDavid. A lone voice... Clearly he is on to something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I'm thinking of Pegula's comment at the LaFontaine hiring presser, something about how the Sabres don't want anyone to come into the organization and think of himself as an "emperor." See also: there's no monopoly on hockey IQ. And: flat management structure. I always saw Babcock as somewhat of a threat to the front office culture. In the end, we just don't know what Babcock wanted, but I think we'll get some clues after the presser in Toronto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 LGR4GM: Edmonton wasn't such a wasteland when Gretzky and Messier were there. Stanley Cup final ratings were big time! With that young talented lineup, it could be the 80's all over again! Ask the L.A Kings how finishing 6-8th works if you have hard work, dedication and some great goaltending. (and they came out of the big bad Western Conference) Are we getting Jack Eichel? What happens if he does decide to go back to Boston College for another season (I would say it is highly unlikely but it is possible) Does he re-enter the next draft or do the Sabres hold his rights. I believe he goes back in the draft but i could be mistaken there. Now whose argument isn''t all that correct? I don't wish to argue with any of you , really. The bottom line is this: we are all Sabres fans who are desperate for winning hockey here (at least i am) I want nothiong more then for this team to hoist a Cup in my lifetime but as i hit 50 this year I question their tactics from time to time. Is that wrong of me? To expect more from a team I choose to spend my money and time on? I will gladly, (believe me gladly) accept the fact i am wrong and take all the crap thrown at me should this team turn it around and become a serious contender. Tanking is not my way of proven success. just because it worked for Pittsburgh. You need a sharp GM and a great coach and a great team of scouts to keep your organization competitive. Winning your Conference is hardly a given to a Stanley Cup. that is how I would like to see this organization formed. Hell, i really like Jack Eichel as i have said in previous posts. he looked great at the World's and i hope he plays with gusto to stick it to all who think he's the consolation prize. to me tanking is the easy way out while subjecting your fan base to a brutal product in "the hopes" of possibly getting a great player. Hey Randall Flagg: Keep telling yourself that........ Enter key :wallbash: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eman Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 just saying: we have "won" nothing yet: Not the draft lottery, not the best available coach. By the end of November, we'll have a better idea of what we truly have (developmentally speaking- they may not be winning but we'll see what type of hockey we are playing) i wouldn't be so quick to dump on the Leafs (and God knows I hate them) I believe Mike will make a big difference there. that club can score (which it did under Carlyle) their D just needs tio improve. Het SDS, give me some credit; I did say Babcock wasn't coming either! I really did (and took the subsequent heat for it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I'm thinking of Pegula's comment at the LaFontaine hiring presser, something about how the Sabres don't want anyone to come into the organization and think of himself as an "emperor." See also: there's no monopoly on hockey IQ. And: flat management structure. I always saw Babcock as somewhat of a threat to the front office culture. In the end, we just don't know what Babcock wanted, but I think we'll get some clues after the presser in Toronto. solid stuff - you're on a roll, sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Godspeed, eman. There is this, though, When they start picking on your carriage returns, and the snark replies pick up, you might just have them on the run. Be prepared to be called a troll, or to be told you have a narrative, any moment now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Wasn't Karma a club in NYC. Upper West side? Or maybe it was a Canadian Ballet dancer? I'm old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFanInRochester Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) the proof will be in the pudding come October. Yes, I am angry at the direction this organization took. All of you who think the Cup is coming in 4-5 seasons are the same group who felt we were getting both McDavid and Babcock. didn't happen. Feel absolutely free to call me out when it does. As those who called me out when I stated we wouldn't be guaranteed McDavid and Babcock was never going to come here. If you have been a Sabres fan for several decades I cannot believe I was the only one to see that coming. I thought we were getting Jack Eichel. We are getting Jack Eichel. If you seriously think the league conspired to put Connor McDavid in the wasteland of Edmonton you don't understand the business of the NHL. If you think that was karma you don't know the odds or are choosing to ignore them. Eichel was 80% if we finished last. We had to finish last because we had to at least get Jack. Jack who might even be the better overall player. Sorry but you just aren't right with a huge portion of what you are posting in here. LGR is right. I never claimed we were getting McDavid, and I cannot speak for everyone, but those behind the tank realized that last place meant at the very least -- Jack Eichel. McDavid would have been icing on the cake. But with the odds, Eichel was the reality. Maybe an optimist would have said we finished last and so we will get McDavid. There is some realism to an optimist. 80/20 odds are hard to overcome. Regarding next season, you are not a savant when the team is not playing .500 hockey in October/November. I too think you are missing the notion that fans see us in a rebuild. The rebuild was to secure key pieces but it will take time. I am not claiming that we are leading the division two months in. There is no doubt -- optimist or realist here -- that next year will entail more offensive firepower and thus make for more exciting hockey. As it is right now, goaltending is unknown so I cannot say we will be winning more than we lose. But damn, will it be great to watch our top line for a change. And, because in the past, our top line was a 2nd or 3rd line cast of characters asked to play the top line, they were stifled by opposing teams. Now, I think you could make a case for depth at each position which is a HUGE step in the right direction. Why would you be upset with the organization for building this? If you are unhappy with the past 8 years, you should be excited about the direction. There is no more of the fringe playoff team meddling. It is clear as day... we are going to rebuild. How much more transparent do you want the team to be? You cannot be upset that Nolan was never given a fair shake. The team was/is in a rebuild. His duty is done. It's time to move on. Edited May 21, 2015 by SabresFanInRochester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 solid stuff - you're on a roll, sir. It's a cinnamon roll. I'm trying to warm it up. Do not judge me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eman Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 bottom line is this: I will be happy as a clam to be completely wrong about all of it. If Tim Murray becomes a God here I will surely bow to him. If the Sabres win a Cup i will get the logo, Cup and date tattooed on my skin (my daughter will attest to this) (and i am not a tattoo guy) I was so excited when T-Pegs bought this club as i thought: we now have an owner who has deep pockets and is a Sabres fan. i bought into the whole "Hockey heaven" talk. But as of this writing, that is all it has been, talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Godspeed, eman. There is this, though, When they start picking on your carriage returns, and the snark replies pick up, you might just have them on the run. Be prepared to be called a troll, or to be told you have a narrative, any moment now. Look, PA, if saying you seem to have a narrative offended you, please accept my apology. But are you going to deny you have a propensity to look for and find villains in Sabreland? And why does there always have to be a bad guy, anyway? GO SABRES!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eman Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 My whole deal with Nolan: He should have been given the opportunity to finish his contract with a good solid young lineup as I believe he coaches youth well. that is all: Give the man a fair shake then release him if the results are not what you expected. Is that so wrong??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Godspeed, eman. There is this, though, When they start picking on your carriage returns, and the snark replies pick up, you might just have them on the run. Be prepared to be called a troll, or to be told you have a narrative, any moment now. what - no forecast that the existing body here will push him out of here like a splinter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFanInRochester Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Godspeed, eman. There is this, though, When they start picking on your carriage returns, and the snark replies pick up, you might just have them on the run. Be prepared to be called a troll, or to be told you have a narrative, any moment now. There are no personal attacks, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I cannot believe that people are upset with the direction of the team, and point to the firing of Nolan and inability of acquiring Babcock as Karma, or poor management. Only one team can win the Cup. That doesn't make the other 29 teams horrible. Only one team was going to get Babcock. God, I wanted that to be Buffalo, and seeing the way it went down, I am more than pleased with the effort that Buffalo brass went through to attempt to bring Babcock here. They are not incompetent because Babcock didn't sign here, and they are certainly not damned because the league is in on it, or "hockey gods" are upset with past dealings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 LGR4GM: Edmonton wasn't such a wasteland when Gretzky and Messier were there. Stanley Cup final ratings were big time! With that young talented lineup, it could be the 80's all over again! Ask the L.A Kings how finishing 6-8th works if you have hard work, dedication and some great goaltending. (and they came out of the big bad Western Conference) Are we getting Jack Eichel? What happens if he does decide to go back to Boston College for another season (I would say it is highly unlikely but it is possible) Does he re-enter the next draft or do the Sabres hold his rights. I believe he goes back in the draft but i could be mistaken there. Now whose argument isn''t all that correct? I don't wish to argue with any of you , really. The bottom line is this: we are all Sabres fans who are desperate for winning hockey here (at least i am) I want nothiong more then for this team to hoist a Cup in my lifetime but as i hit 50 this year I question their tactics from time to time. Is that wrong of me? To expect more from a team I choose to spend my money and time on? I will gladly, (believe me gladly) accept the fact i am wrong and take all the crap thrown at me should this team turn it around and become a serious contender. Tanking is not my way of proven success. just because it worked for Pittsburgh. You need a sharp GM and a great coach and a great team of scouts to keep your organization competitive. Winning your Conference is hardly a given to a Stanley Cup. that is how I would like to see this organization formed. Hell, i really like Jack Eichel as i have said in previous posts. he looked great at the World's and i hope he plays with gusto to stick it to all who think he's the consolation prize. to me tanking is the easy way out while subjecting your fan base to a brutal product in "the hopes" of possibly getting a great player. Hey Randall Flagg: Keep telling yourself that........ This isn't the 1980's. The growth of the NFL and NBA in America mean that it is very hard for Hockey to compete and when your new league superstar is on a Canadian team in a non eastern time zone, you can bet your life the NHL hates it. The NHL hated that lottery results and several NHL gm's were less than thrilled that the Edmonton Oilers get to draft 1st overall for the 4th time in 6 years. The LA Kings made major trades at the deadline the year they won the cup coming from 8th place. They were playing well above their 8th place position and Quick's GT was otherworldly. You hold them up as an example. You know how many 8th place teams have won the cup? 1. So while you claim to want the best for the Sabres you are using the exception to the rule to justify an 8th place finish which in all but 1 instance since 2005 has resulted in absolutely nothing. So let's do the math, 2 8th place teams per year for a decade. 1 out of 20 chance. That's crappy. My favorite part of your filled diatribe is this line. "What happens if he does decide to go back to Boston College for another season (I would say it is highly unlikely but it is possible) Does he re-enter the next draft or do the Sabres hold his rights. I believe he goes back in the draft but i could be mistaken there. Now whose argument isn''t all that correct?" Your argument isn't correct actually. But thanks for acting like you know what is actually happening. Jack Eichel would have to stay all the way through his senior year to become a college UFA. That would be 3 more years of not getting paid anything. Plus 3 more years of an entry level deal. Plus 3 more years of career ending injury risk. The rest of your post doesn't make sense. It indicates that you felt the Sabres could have been a playoff team this year or something. That argument isn't correct. It also indicates you like Eichel but don't think he will be a great player? Idk at that point your post is confusing. The Tank happened and we will be better off next year because of it. Murray didn't trade any player who had a future on the Sabres. He traded UFA's who were going to walk in July to ensure in June we got the best player possible and could actually be a contending team. I'll judge Murray after I see more from him but thus far he seems like a big picture type of guy and I like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 what - no forecast that the existing body here will push him out of here like a splinter? I considered that. I almost went with "the nail that sticks up get pounded down." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Godspeed, eman. There is this, though, When they start picking on your carriage returns, and the snark replies pick up, you might just have them on the run. Be prepared to be called a troll, or to be told you have a narrative, any moment now. Can't handle being called out PA? Oh wait, don't answer that. I already know the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFanInRochester Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) bottom line is this: I will be happy as a clam to be completely wrong about all of it. If Tim Murray becomes a God here I will surely bow to him. If the Sabres win a Cup i will get the logo, Cup and date tattooed on my skin (my daughter will attest to this) (and i am not a tattoo guy) I was so excited when T-Pegs bought this club as i thought: we now have an owner who has deep pockets and is a Sabres fan. i bought into the whole "Hockey heaven" talk. But as of this writing, that is all it has been, talk. Do you think the construction of the HarborCenter is all talk? Maybe that doesn't win a championship, but the guy is dedicated to improving things to make a "Hockey Heaven" culture. He just threw a $50M offer to Mike Babcock and lost out to Toronto. That's not just talk. To his fault, he has probably been too carefree with his spending to try to do things quicker -- a la Leino. Edited May 21, 2015 by SabresFanInRochester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biodork Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Love this. To SDS's point, the rub here is what he said to the Sabres. Here's a possibility: What if he and his agent were sufficiently vague and wiggly, but the Sabres naively acted as though "we got this." To Eleven's point, it may not have been unlawful or otherwise actionable to walk from a handshake deal, but it still may be bad business form, yeah? Right. I'm not willing to go around talking about Babcock's integrity when it's at least 50/50 whether he behaved in a bad sense or the Sabres themselves were arrogant or read the tea leaves wrong. I agree in principle, but it's not like it was just the Sabres FO were arrogant and assumed they had it wrapped up; TO was already interviewing the next guy in line for them, so clearly they had no idea they were still in the running! Pitting two suitors against one another is one thing, but TO wasn't courting Babcock; it was the other way around. He was just smart enough to make it seem like he didn't want to be there to extract as much coin as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eman Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I don't find any with opposing opinions as attacks. i enjoy conversing with everyone on here to get varying opinions. We are all Sabres fans concerned with the product on the ice and we all inevitably want success for this team. I learn things on here and some of the best laughs I have had have come from being a part of The Aud Club. I do look forward to the upcoming season as I always do. Yes I am more optimistic about this year then in the past but it is with guarded optimism now. I wish all of you well and keep up the great dialogue. Again, come the end of November the picture will be clearer. I am expecting improvement though. I am sure the rest of you do as well and that is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) My whole deal with Nolan: He should have been given the opportunity to finish his contract with a good solid young lineup as I believe he coaches youth well. that is all: Give the man a fair shake then release him if the results are not what you expected. Is that so wrong???It's wrong if, even with a poor group of players, he convinced you he isn't a good coach at the NHL level. I submit he did just that in the eyes of Murray and others. Throw in their inability to communicate well with each other, makes a ton of sense for Murray to have fired him. GO SABRES!!! Edited May 21, 2015 by K-9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgang Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Karma is so subjective. Toronto was literally interviewing Boucher and that abruptly kicked his @$$ out the door to nab Babs and cleaned house top to bottom (I do not know if there were golden parachutes there either like TN got). So they are now more deserving of Babs with "good Karma?" Toronto also stopped playing after Jan to get in on the McDavid sweeps. Eye of the beholder. As for Edmonton, show me how Edmonton and its years of ineptitude and pushing to the bottom to nab more and more first rounders is deserving of good Karma. I'm just as jaded as the next guy, but let's keep it real, here please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFanInRochester Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 It's wrong if, even with a poor group of players, he convinced you he isn't a good coach at the NHL level. I submit he did just that in the eyes of Murray and others. Throw in their inability to communicate well with each other, makes a ton is sense for Murray to have fired him. GO SABRES!!! Look at all the coaching vacancies. Why isn't Nolan's name being tossed around for NHL gigs? Yet, people want him to play out his contract out of respect for a business deal. It was the same respect for a business deal that just allowed Babcock to play Buffalo and win a huge contract in Toronto, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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