jad1 Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Maybe, just maybe, PLF is allowing himself to fall on the sword BECAUSE of the Battista's and Sawyer's and whoever else comprises the "Inner Circle" - maybe PLF is trying to get these guys to embarrass Pegula so Pegula (finally) re-evaluates these people who whisper in his ear. Maybe. Or not. If this fall-out was caused by the trade, the people whispering in Pegula's ear were Murray and Patrick. Do you think those guys have to be re-evaluated due to the trade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Soooooo we still have no real straight talk about why this happened? I think this looks worse for Pegula than it does for Pat. If he's returning to the league office then it must have been in the works, so why wasn't the org prepared to make a statement? Frightening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 We traded PLF to the NHL in exchange for more favorable future rulings from Shanahan and the Department of Player Safety. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two or less Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Who are these "Pegula people" that Hamilton refers to in the interview, whom nobody crosses and survives? Ted Black, Cliff Benson, Ken Sawyer and Joe Battista. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Looks to me like there's too many "leaders" in the organization. I wonder how this will work out now that Murray has to deal with them on a regular basis, rather than having them 'filtered' by PLF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 You know the pieces we've seen just don't add up to a Murray/Nolan/Lafontaine feud. To me it has to be between Lafontaine and something at the Sawyer/Battista level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) If this fall-out was caused by the trade, the people whispering in Pegula's ear were Murray and Patrick. Do you think those guys have to be re-evaluated due to the trade? That's an interesting question, because I wouldn't consider Murray and Patrick part of a group referred to as "the inner circle", I would consider those two "staff", "executives", "employees". The "inner circle" guys are the ones who advise Pegula beyond whatever duties they may have in the organization (unless, of course, the position is that of "advisor", generally). But, that raises the question of whether the "inner circle" is indeed referring to folks like Black, Murray and Patrick. If that's true, PLF must feel betrayed, especially by the latter two, which could explain why the situation was described as "ugly" I think more than once. Edited March 2, 2014 by sizzlemeister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro60 Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 I am not into the conspiracy theories thrown about. A wait and see approach is logical. Let all parties have their say in the media. I saw pat as a bridge between the firing of Reigier and hiring of a new GM. The possibilities of what when wrong are countless and sorry to see Pat go but life goes no. HOPE Pegula has his staff and organization all on the same page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Not for nothing but someone couldn't figure out a better result than this? How ###### dumb are they? This isn't rocket science. These are professionals working in a landscape they have worked in for decades. This seems like a good resolution? That's difficult to believe when Patty claimed that Pegula offered him the GM position, but he turned it down because he felt he didn't have enough experience. The reports sure made it sound like PLF was given free reign to build the front office structure, but it seems that he didn't understand his own role in that organization. I'm sure there could have been a better resolution. If I were given that position and given the impression that I had free reign, I would have questioned Pegula as to whether or not I was actually a figurehead or not. Regardless of the stuation, PLF could have waited until after the deadline, just for PR's sake. If this does go as deep as disagreements with Pegula's henchmen, I question said group. There shouldn't be a mob mentality when it comes to the front office execs. Either way, if this doesn't affect Nolan and his future with the team, this shouldn't be that much of a big deal. It could be as simple as PLF thinking he was in way over his head. Who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) Oh boy! Still a ton of guests reading through these pages. I hope we're entertaining. Give us a shout out if you use some of what you read here on air! :flirt: Edited March 2, 2014 by sizzlemeister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 You know the pieces we've seen just don't add up to a Murray/Nolan/Lafontaine feud. To me it has to be between Lafontaine and something at the Sawyer/Battista level. Meh. I don't know what pieces we're missing. It sounds like it's clear to me that Pat was told one thing when he was hired, but another thing happened. It seems pretty clean cut to me at this point: he was told that he'd get final say on any hockey decisions but Murray made a trade without his consent. Now he whines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 It could be as simple as PLF thinking he was in way over his head. Who knows. We will get the cleanest of brush-offs from both sides because they're still working in the same league and have to play nice with each other, or suffer the wrath of Bettman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 That's an interesting question, because I wouldn't consider Murray and Patrick part of a group referred to as "the inner circle", I would consider those two "staff", "executives", "employees". The "inner circle" guys are the ones who advise Pegula beyond whatever duties they may have in the organization (unless, of course, the position is that of "advisor", generally). But, that raises the question of whether the "inner circle" is indeed referring to folks like Black, Murray and Patrick. If that's true, PLF must feel betrayed, especially by the latter two, which could explain why the situation was described as "ugly" I think more than once. This is how I'm seeing the situation as well. Pat expected to be fully in charge of hockey operations excluding the stuff that falls under the role of GM of course. But Terry already had guys for that work. So Pat, rather than being President, is actually a Co-President. Not quite the same ring to it eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Lafontaine stepping down because he wanted more say in player personnel is like a WalMart greeter getting up set because they won't let him stock the shelves. Lafontaine was brought in for a specific reason and given a title he was woefully unqualified for. At the end of the day, as they say, this will all be much to do about nothing. I am frankly more interested in hearing that Ehrhoff was asked to submit 8 teams for his NTC list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) We will get the cleanest of brush-offs from both sides because they're still working in the same league and have to play nice with each other, or suffer the wrath of Bettman. So was Patty in NY, or called to NY? We assume this is all internal, but ..............dun, dun, dun............why did McKenzie hear about it first? You don't think guys at FNC are texting McKenzie, do you? I'm betting this all leaked out of league not out of Buffalo. New job with the league is his old job?.......I'm betting that was a compromise among certain powers. You don't just get your old job back the same moment you resign do you? Edited March 2, 2014 by X. Benedict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 That's an interesting question, because I wouldn't consider Murray and Patrick part of a group referred to as "the inner circle", I would consider those two "staff", "executives", "employees". The "inner circle" guys are the ones who advise Pegula beyond whatever duties they may have in the organization (unless, of course, the position is that of "advisor", generally). But, that raises the question of whether the "inner circle" is indeed referring to folks like Black, Murray and Patrick. If that's true, PLF must feel betrayed, especially by the latter two, which could explain why the situation was described as "ugly" I think more than once. That implies that PLF is leaving because of conflicts in non-hockey decisions. Which is interesting, because I doubt that he's that concerned about the direction the Sabres are heading in the areas of pricing, marketing, or public relations to the extent that he would quit the organization the weekend before the trade deadline. More likely, he believed that Miller or Ott shouldn't have been traded, or that he could have negotiated a better deal than Murray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Well, I think it's pretty clear Terry Pegula is horrible at chess. A truly intelligent leader sets up his ranks so that none of this happens: he realizes he needs to ignore his ego to achieve success (and survival). If he knew his people, and himself, he'd have seen this outcome coming before it happened. If he knew that at some point the vague description of duties would eventually need to be clarified, and that clarification would be an insult to a soldier, then he either chooses to take that path (knowing the outcome), or revise his strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 That implies that PLF is leaving because of conflicts in non-hockey decisions. Which is interesting, because I doubt that he's that concerned about the direction the Sabres are heading in the areas of pricing, marketing, or public relations to the extent that he would quit the organization the weekend before the trade deadline. More likely, he believed that Miller or Ott shouldn't have been traded, or that he could have negotiated a better deal than Murray. Unless you're the owner of the team, you can't hire a GM and say he has power and then not let him make his first deal by over-ruling him. He said himself that he cannot evaluate prospects. I doubt he has scouted Stewart all that closely rather than Carrier. And doesn't know what will happen with Halak and Stewart now. That can't be it, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Well, I think it's pretty clear Terry Pegula is horrible at chess. A truly intelligent leader sets up his ranks so that none of this happens: he realizes he needs to ignore his ego to achieve success (and survival). If he knew his people, and himself, he'd have seen this outcome coming before it happened. If he knew that at some point the vague description of duties would eventually need to be clarified, and that clarification would be an insult to a soldier, then he either chooses to take that path (knowing the outcome), or revise his strategy. PLF did quit his previous executive role with the Islanders after a short period of time; perhaps Pegula should have seen that as a red-flag. On the other hand, PLF has brought in some strong talent to run the organization in Murray, Patrick and Nolan. He built a good group, maybe he just couldn't manage them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) 5 questions 1. Was PLF called to NY, and if so, why? 2. Were there complaints from other owners? 3. Were there professional boundaries breached? 4. What was the best thing before there was sliced bread? 5. How does PLF have a job the moment he resigns from his current one? Did Bettman make that call? Why was this arranged? Who hired PLF today? 6. Did this all leak out of league? These are the questions I want to know. Well....5 real questions. Edited March 2, 2014 by X. Benedict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 That implies that PLF is leaving because of conflicts in non-hockey decisions. Which is interesting, because I doubt that he's that concerned about the direction the Sabres are heading in the areas of pricing, marketing, or public relations to the extent that he would quit the organization the weekend before the trade deadline. More likely, he believed that Miller or Ott shouldn't have been traded, or that he could have negotiated a better deal than Murray. It doesn't matter what the hockey-related issue was. What matters is the structure of command within the upper ranks of the organization; PLF thought his role was one thing, Pegula, ostensibly, thought PLF's role was something else. The manner at which this was revealed was in such a way as to have clearly insulted PLF. Who let this happen? Who were the players? Did Murray appeal directly to Pegula? Who, exactly was above PLF in the hierarchy? Did Patrick and Murray sit across from PLF in a boardroom, Pegula flanked by Benson and Sawyer, Black is digging through the bar refrigerator looking for oj or something, and disagree with PLF, leaving Pegula to make a decision right there, like a king in his court, but first consulting his advisors on each side, and the fool at the refrigerator? "We must tank, my lord..." "Yes, I agree, the tanketh must floweth..." "Only a FOOL would not stock OJ, my lord, and not tank, too.." "Patty, Patty, I love you, you know that...but you hired these guys to make hockey decisions, and you're not agreeing already? Patty, we have to get this show on the road..." "Terry, my lord, you gave me the keys to the army! You said I can do whatever it takes to win you victories and bring home glories! You must, sir, MUST trust my judgment." "Patty...Patty reach over there and grab me an OJ, would you? Thanks, yeah. Patty, it's not that I don't trust your judgment, but my advisors tell me Murray and Patrick's plan is the way to go. You know? What's wrong with, you know, trusting our judgment here? We're pretty smart guys, I think." "But, but, my lord, that is not what we talked about upon your ship, that wonderful day many months ago. You were to allow me to execute my vision..." "Yeah, I know, but, Patty, aren't these guys your vision? Right? I mean, right?" If Patrick is staying, I assume he's okay with whatever happened, and is, perhaps involved in opposition to PLF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Dance Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 I honestly don't care about who's right, who's wrong, etc., etc. All I see is a hockey "organization" that can't seem to find its a$$ with both hands. This situation is going to make the Sabres (and by extension, Buffalo) look even worse in the eyes of national media than they already do. There has been more melodrama surrounding this team in the three years since Pegula arrived than in the previous 41. (and that's saying a lot when one of the previous owners went to prison) How the hell are they going to convince any decent free agent to sign here when they can't even retain front office personnel? Oh, I forgot...they're going to build the team entirely with top draft choices. Until then, the on-ice product (and the fans) are going to suffer for at least another 5 - 7 seasons. At that point, the Sabres will be fortunate to have any fan base left. Who knows what the next drama will be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Just another day in the place they call Hockey Heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Late to the party, here are my observations/reactions: 1. Sabres actually seemed to be moving out of LFT status LFT? Liver Function Test? Louisiana Federation of Teachers? Help me out here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) My two cents: Murray can now do whatever he wants in the hockey department without having to go back PLF, no offense but murray was brought in to run things, PLF could give advice but the final call should always be the gm's. But we shouldn't be to hars on all of them, maybe some conflicts showed up lately, but doubt there was any malice or ill wil from any side. PLF still seems like a great guy and a true sabres fan, lets not forget that. That being said, its weird he got his old job with the NHL back so quickly though. Edited March 2, 2014 by Heimdall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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