fan2456 Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Pommer had a decent year and Vanek was injured most of the season. As the sky is blue, you could see there was something wrong with Vanek. I don't think either one of them are past their prime, but I do think Miller is on the wrong side of the mountain. Vanek is always injured by the end of the year or in the playoffs. He can't keep from getting hit! Certainly, no one is afraid to hit him. Neither he or his teamates will defend him. He can't skate well enough to avoid a hit. Despite his ankle, chest and shouilder problems, he played 18 at The Country Club of Buffalo, 6 days after the season ended. The old expression, excuses are for losers comes to mind. Obviously, a wrist injury might effect a golfer more and it isn't a contact sport. But, ankle(weight shift), shoulder(swing) and sternum(turn) should keep you off the golf course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Vanek is always injured by the end of the year or in the playoffs. He can't keep from getting hit! Certainly, no one is afraid to hit him. Neither he or his teamates will defend him. He can't skate well enough to avoid a hit. Despite his ankle, chest and shouilder problems, he played 18 at The Country Club of Buffalo, 6 days after the season ended. The old expression, excuses are for losers comes to mind. Obviously, a wrist injury might effect a golfer more and it isn't a contact sport. But, ankle(weight shift), shoulder(swing) and sternum(turn) should keep you off the golf course. I have no knowledge of his golf game, but I'd imagine if he wanted to use injuries as an excuse he would have during the season or at locker cleanout. Either way, I believe his injuries are due far more to the beating he takes in front of the net than his lack of skating to avoid hits. I want the Sabres to get someone else to sit in front of the net so Vanek doesn't have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan2456 Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Okay, can he score off the rush? He scores in front of the net taking a beating. I respect him for it. But unless he is the trailer, he isn't scoring off the rush. He gets behind the d when he hangs, but than Lindy ridicules him for his defensive play.. HOW WOULD YOU SUGGEST THEY USE HIM? I'm amenable to any logical suggestions. There are a lot of comments about how we use him incorrectly. How should we use him? What can he do differently and still score? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Vanek is always injured by the end of the year or in the playoffs. Except for last year. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan2456 Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Except for last year. :doh: Okay, touche, "almost always," So how should we use him to make him more effective and not allow him to be beaten up in front of the net? What does he bring to the game to score otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Okay, can he score off the rush? Definitely not. Oh, wait, do any of these count? :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan2456 Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Definitely not. Oh, wait, do any of these count? :rolleyes: Great! With regularity? Sure they count. Give me the % of these since the rules have changed. I could find highlights to make Rob Johnson look like Payton Manning if I cared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 Okay, touche, "almost always," So how should we use him to make him more effective and nor beat up in front of the net? What does he bring to the game? Well, so far the 7th most goals of any Sabre in team history.... He was hurt at the end of this year (but still playing, and actually playing well enough to have 11 points in his last 10 games) and he was hurt in the playoffs two years ago when he took a cheap shot in the ankle. When else did he miss time? He played 16 games in the 2007 playoffs and 10 games as a rookie in the 2006 playoffs. Great!~ With regularity? Nope, definitely not. He's consistently awful and that's why he's a huge failure stuck at no.7 all-time on the list of Sabres goal scorers. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan2456 Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Yep, he's right behind all those other Stanley Cup winners, who won as a Sabre. LOL Hey Dave Andrechuck(?sp) was poor skater, but he took the beating and is at the top of the all-time leauge in goal scoring. I accept that. He had a great reach and was a powerpaly Mavin. Vanek could be this. But circumstrance allowed a second tier player to be payed at elite status. Not his fault. But if he is going to cite inuries afte the season, maybe he should wait a little while to play golf. Also, what Sabre forwards are poorer skaters than Thomas in your opinion? I'm not sure there are any. Why can't people accept the fact that it is what holds him back from elite status. He can't afford an inury which affects his skating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Yep, he's right behind all those other Stanley Cup winners, who won as a Sabre. So what is your argument now? You said Vanek is always hurt -- except that he isn't. You said Vanek can't score on the rush -- except that he does. And you said Vanek doesn't score enough -- except that he's no.7 all-time on the Sabres list of goal-scorers. And now he sucks because he, like every other player in NHL history, has never won a Cup as a Buffalo Sabre? Keep going, dude. I'm trying to figure out if you're a visitor from another dimension and talking about a completely different "Thomas Vanek." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Yep, he's right behind all those other Stanley Cup winners, who won as a Sabre. Hey Dave Andrechuck(?sp) was poor skater, but he took thebeating and is at the top of the leauge in goal scoring. I accept that. He had a great reach and was a powerpaly Mavin. Vanek could be this. But circumstrance allowed a second tier player to be payed at elite status. Not his fault. But if he is going to cite inuries afte the season, maybe he should wait a little while to play golf. Also, what Sabre forwards are poorer skaters than Thomas in your opinion? I'm not sure there are any. I definitely think you're rating Vanek's skating at worse than it is. He doesn't have that quickness, or sudden first step, that elite players have. But his overall speed is certainly fine, and I don't consider his overall skating a liability in the grand scheme--it's certainly a hell of a lot better than Andreychuk. He's also not as big as Andreychuk, which is why the injuries pile up from always being in front of the net. Vanek's best assets are his shot and vision, both of which are neutralized in front of the net. On the PP I'd much rather he be on the half wall or the point than in front, but he has to be in front because we have nobody else with decent size and good enough hands to bother putting there. Get him a big RW with some talent, keep Hodgson as his center, and I think great things will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan2456 Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 So what is your argument now? You said Vanek is always hurt -- except that he isn't. You said Vanek can't score on the rush -- except that he does. And you said Vanek doesn't score enough -- except that he's no.7 all-time on the Sabres list of goal-scorers. And now he sucks because he, like every other player in NHL history, has never won a Cup as a Buffalo Sabre? Keep going, dude. I'm trying to figure out if you're a visitor from another dimension and talking about a completely different "Thomas Vanek." Wow DUDE, I can't figure you out. I said Sabre history , not NHL history. And he does not score with regularity off the rush. You like him, I don't. Lets drop it and leave it at that.I don't want to fight about favorite players. I've been a fan of these guys since 1970, having watched the NHL for 6 years before that. That certainly makes me no better or smarter than you. But it gives me a different perspective and a much bigger burden of frustration. Let's call a truce. We all have our opinions. I'll root for Vanek if he's here next year. I definitely think you're rating Vanek's skating at worse than it is. He doesn't have that quickness, or sudden first step, that elite players have. But his overall speed is certainly fine, and I don't consider his overall skating a liability in the grand scheme--it's certainly a hell of a lot better than Andreychuk. He's also not as big as Andreychuk, which is why the injuries pile up from always being in front of the net. Vanek's best assets are his shot and vision, both of which are neutralized in front of the net. On the PP I'd much rather he be on the half wall or the point than in front, but he has to be in front because we have nobody else with decent size and good enough hands to bother putting there. Get him a big RW with some talent, keep Hodgson as his center, and I think great things will happen. I have disagree on his skating, or he has poor reaction in the d zone. He is either slow to read the play, or can't skate well enough to get to the wall or the point man in the defensive zone. Sorry, and I don't want to sound like an ass(but feel free to call me one), but I sit in the end of the ice where we play d for 2 periods and 42 home games a year. That is my observation and I trust my eyes. And yes, we need big tough wingers all over this team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 I have disagree on his skating, or he has poor reaction in the d zone. He is either slow to read the play, or can't skate well enough to get to the wall or the point man in the defensive zone. Sorry, and I don't want to sound like an ass(but feel free to call me one), but I sit in the end of the ice where we play d for 2 periods and 42 home games a year. That is my observation and I trust my eyes. Right, he doesn't have that first step explosiveness to cover a relatively short distance in a short amount of time, I'm not arguing that he does. His speed is fine though, going through the neutral zone or on a rush or breakaway...he just doesn't have that sudden jump that great skaters have, but once he's going, he's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan2456 Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Won't argue that. He's a piece that D.R. HAS TO SURROUND with the right pieces. I'd also like him more if he showed some consistent compete when it meant more than shot on goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChimp Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Vanek seriously has very, very rarely had an undisputed #1 Center or a bruising winger on his other side to open up space for him. I wonder what kind of amazing things he could have done with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Vanek seriously has very, very rarely had an undisputed #1 Center or a bruising winger on his other side to open up space for him. I wonder what kind of amazing things he could have done with them. I'll go a step further: Vanek has NEVER had an undisputed #1 center and Vanek has NEVER had a bruising winger on the line to open up space for him. This came up in another thread a couple weeks back: can anyone remember a time when Vanek wasn't the biggest guy on his line? I don't think it's ever happened. Adam was about the same size (and it actually worked well to start this season) and Stafford is almost as big as Vanek (but definitely not a power forward). He's never had a Marcus Foligno type player to open up space for him. The fact that Vanek has more Sabre goals than Rene Robert (who played with Perrault and Martin in an era with more scoring) is nothing short of astounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJBuffalo Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 I definitely think you're rating Vanek's skating at worse than it is. He doesn't have that quickness, or sudden first step, that elite players have. But his overall speed is certainly fine, and I don't consider his overall skating a liability in the grand scheme--it's certainly a hell of a lot better than Andreychuk. He's also not as big as Andreychuk, which is why the injuries pile up from always being in front of the net. Vanek's best assets are his shot and vision, both of which are neutralized in front of the net. On the PP I'd much rather he be on the half wall or the point than in front, but he has to be in front because we have nobody else with decent size and good enough hands to bother putting there. Get him a big RW with some talent, keep Hodgson as his center, and I think great things will happen. agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Great! With regularity? Sure they count. Give me the % of these since the rules have changed. I could find highlights to make Rob Johnson look like Payton Manning if I cared. Since the rules changed? Let me think on that one... Oh yeah, the answer is 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Definitely absolutely sucks we're missing the playoffs and watching these other teams. There have been some surprises already.... the cool thing about hockey - the playoffs aren't always predictable. Would have liked to see Sulzer, Foligno, and Tropp in action - those dudes seem plenty physical to me. Although, would either Erhoff or Myers have been able to play in the first, or even second round? Their loss would really hurt, as we could see in the last few games of the regular season. Also didn't help our chances that Sulzer had that personal emergency and had to depart the last game that mattered. It still SUCKS we didn't make the playoffs. I haven't even watched the game so far.... focused on Yankees baseball instead. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Some of the Sulzer lovers here should prepare themselves for disappointment. I like the guy, but as a 6/7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Some of the Sulzer lovers here should prepare themselves for disappointment. I like the guy, but as a 6/7. I agree. I am a little concerned of the Gragnani-effect: the guy comes in for a little while and looks a lot better than he is due to small sample size, yet we anoint him a member of our top-6 defensemen. And even then, we have to do something to alleviate our logjam of defensemen. Brennan can only go back to Rochester next year by clearing waivers (I believe, if I'm wrong feel free to correct ;) ), most of us would like to see McNabb get every opportunity to win a spot, and we still have Weber as a 6/7 and most want to re-sign Sulzer. Something's gotta give. I expect Sekera to be used in a trade to upgrade the roster elsewhere, but I think that still leaves us needing to offload 1 more defenseman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Give Vanek big body on the RW to open up some space for him, and I all but guarantee he'll score 40 again. I think that's a missing piece on this team more than a #1 center for him. He's shown what he can do on his own. Get someone to take the beatings for him. That said, I still think 7 mill. a year is way too much for him, but that ship has sailed. Quit using him as a target in front of the net, if he isn't beaten to injury, he's shot to injury by all the knee high shots taken by our blueliners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Vanek could be a superstar in the league if the Sabres would just allow him to be. The forwards should be built around him. He should be the team's leader in minutes and should be playing on both the #1 PK and #1 PP on a regular basis. The #1 focus should be finding a center to feed Vanek the puck and a big RW to help create space for Vanek. If Rick Nash could be had, than go get Rick Nash to play opposite of Vanek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Despite his ankle, chest and shouilder problems, he played 18 at The Country Club of Buffalo, 6 days after the season ended. But what did he score? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan2456 Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Vanek seriously has very, very rarely had an undisputed #1 Center or a bruising winger on his other side to open up space for him. I wonder what kind of amazing things he could have done with them. Right, we don't have a number one center and Foligno might be our first bruising winger with skill since the lockout. To play devils advocate, we all hate the small center named Roy. So, would he be better with skilled bruising wingers? Vanek and Stafford might fit the skill, but fail miserably in bruising. Than Gerbe shows up on his wing. 5'8 and 5'4 realy does not match up against any team in this league. So you and I actually agree in a convuluted way. We have soft skilled wings with some size, average wings with average or less size and small and/or soft centers. None of whom are number 1's. So Darcy is to blame? We need a few more Folignos. The bright side is Darcy started drafting thes guys after 11-12 years into his tenure here. Or, to feel really awful about this team, he took 11-12 years to wake up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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