RazielSabre Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Drury was certainly a vocal leader. He was a very commanding presence in the locker room. There are plenty of accounts that indicate it anyway. Drury was a natural leader though. I don't know if we have one (Regehr excluded as I don't know much about his hockey personality.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielSabre Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 I don't see McCormick as an enforcer. I see him as a physical grinder who will drop the gloves when necessary, but I don't see him in the heavyweight goon category. I think of him as player comparable to Adam Mair. I forget where but there was talk a while back about how, in Ruff's system, players are coached not to go for the hit unless necessary because it takes them out of the play and encourages them to run around looking for the hit rather than playing the system. That what use does he serve? Gausted does that better, as does Kaleta. We need someone intimidating in that role IMHO. As for the second point I see the logic in the system but don't see why it stops players from hitting, they just need to use their brain. I also don't see that as our main problem. I also don't think Gerbe as captain would change that, getting back to subject. I don't see McCormick as an enforcer. I see him as a physical grinder who will drop the gloves when necessary, but I don't see him in the heavyweight goon category. I think of him as player comparable to Adam Mair. I forget where but there was talk a while back about how, in Ruff's system, players are coached not to go for the hit unless necessary because it takes them out of the play and encourages them to run around looking for the hit rather than playing the system. That what use does he serve? Gausted does that better, as does Kaleta. We need someone intimidating in that role IMHO. As for the second point I see the logic in the system but don't see why it stops players from hitting, they just need to use their brain. I also don't see that as our main problem. I also don't think Gerbe as captain would change that, getting back to subject ;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 You've mentioned Carcillo twice (at least I think it was you the 1st time). Carcillo is not an enforcer. He's not even that big, about NHL average height and weight. The only people he strikes fear into are smaller timid players. He's an agitator with a screw loose. And not getting much playing time anymore. Well he's getting no playing time right now since defensemen skating back for a routine icing touch up now fear him. I'd also say that eyes everywhere fear him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 I forget where but there was talk a while back about how, in Ruff's system, players are coached not to go for the hit unless necessary because it takes them out of the play and encourages them to run around looking for the hit rather than playing the system. who was doing the talking? in any event, with or without attributed sources, this is clearly and maddeningly the case. and it's why i feel more and more and more that lindy and his system need to move on. young master kassian played like a crazed assassin in juniors; to wit: he gave inkie wet dreams and made candy-###### like me fear that he'd put a black eye on the organization when he came aboard. now? he looks like he's vying for a lady bynge trophy. something is rotten in the state of sabres university, and methinks it traces back to the headmaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 he gave inkie wet dreams and made candy-###### like me fear that he'd put a black eye on the organization when he came aboard. now? he looks like he's vying for a lady bynge trophy. something is rotten in the state of sabres university, and methinks it traces back to the headmaster. You don't think the two suspensions and his offseason arrest had no impact whatsoever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 You don't think the two suspensions and his offseason arrest had no impact whatsoever? fair deuce. still ... the softness of his game lends credence to those who have said that lindy's system has a way of suppressing/removing those highly-individualized aspects of a player's game (whether those aspects be tied to things like heavy hitting, play-making creativity, dangling). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 fair deuce. still ... the softness of his game lends credence to those who have said that lindy's system has a way of suppressing/removing those highly-individualized aspects of a player's game (whether those aspects be tied to things like heavy hitting, play-making creativity, dangling). Watch him with the puck along the boards and tell me he's soft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Watch him with the puck along the boards and tell me he's soft. dammit all, stop making reasoned points. i just adjusted my tinfoil hat so that it fits correctly. softness wasn't the right word. i'm talking about the dearth of hits, absence of aggression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 dammit all, stop making reasoned points. i just adjusted my tinfoil hat so that it fits correctly. softness wasn't the right word. i'm talking about the dearth of hits, absence of aggression. In Lindy's defense, Kassian isn't a freight train in Rochester either. I would say he plays the same style game down here that he does in the NHL. He's a setup guy with amazing vision and hockey sense. I think that he has had to remove hitting from his game so that his team can win. He's not another Paul Gaustad where if he stops hitting he becomes one dimensional. I'm fine with how he's playing right now. Digging for the puck along the boards, winning battles, and making nice passes is much more important to me than big hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 In Lindy's defense, Kassian isn't a freight train in Rochester either. hence my reference above to sabres university. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightrider Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Fantastic Thread! If you need a letter on your jersey in order to be a leader, maybe you're not much of a leader after all. And while we're in this "he works hard" mode, why don't we pin a letter on Matt Ellis' chest while we're at it? These captain discussions are always the same and they're always so short sighted. You can't judge a guy's leadership capabilities simply by his play on the ice. You don't see who is saying what or doing what back in the locker room or during practice. You can catch a glimpse of something like that on the bench though. Who is the one doing the talking and who is the one doing the listening? To me, it seems like Gerbe is listening more often. What this team is severely lacking right now is a younger version of a Mike Grier type. You would never not see him explaining things to anyone who would listen on the bench. Unfortunately his body wasn't able to keep up with the high standard of his character. Man he works hard, but I hate seeing him on the ice. I don't feel that way about Gerbe. Not sure it's a ringing endorsement of Gerbe, although he has heart, as it's more of an indictment of a lack of character on the team. What a bunch of gutless wonders when they let 5'5 Nathan exact the punishment for Gomez' run on Miller...and that's just one incident that scratches the surface. Alot of these guys are either flat out mercenaries or just going through the motions. Be willing to bet a number of these guys would rather play for the fans of Berlin than Buffalo. Bingo. He hasn't really gotten a shot at a top 6 spot as of yet (although I'm hoping we're seeing a change with that) so I'd say one step at a time. Like most others have said, he's still rather young and needs to build up some NHL experience. That said, I think he's got what it takes, albeit from the miniscule samplings of on-ice time we get to see of him. Anybody know him personally that could comment on his off ice demeanor? Without that, I'd venture to guess we don't REALLY know if he's Captain material, IMHO. I don't think he is necessarily a top 6 guy... However, he does well as a third liner. 1) Ruff was known as a hard nosed player 2) This is the same coach who put Peters, Kaleta and i think Gausted out against Ottawa's top line when they hit Drury all those years ago 3) This league has shown that it clamps down on any kind of revenge or dodgy hit with severe penalties. 4) Kassian has been asked to play harder, thats why he was benched In short, I'm not so sure Ruffs to blame for this one. We can suspect his responsible for a lot, but the lack of physicality I'm not pinning on him. I'd rather have seen Stafford sat than Kassian. I suppose they can't if they are trying to shop him. Watch him with the puck along the boards and tell me he's soft. Yup. While I would not be shocked if Pominville were traded, I just don't see Gerbe as captain material. Other than Vanek, who seems to get down on himself far too often, I don't see anyone from the "core" stepping into that role. As for the rest of the team, maybe Regehr... From what I've seen in McNabb, I can see him a the future captain. He does have a little Tebow/Flutie Magic in him, though, doesn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 While I would not be shocked if Pominville were traded, I just don't see Gerbe as captain material. Other than Vanek, who seems to get down on himself far too often, I don't see anyone from the "core" stepping into that role. As for the rest of the team, maybe Regehr... From what I've seen in McNabb, I can see him a the future captain. I can never understand why people make these kind of statements 30 seconds into a guy's career. I'm not trying to take a shot at you, I'd just love to know what it is you are seeing (and what other see when they say similar things about other rookies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 I can never understand why people make these kind of statements 30 seconds into a guy's career. I'm not trying to take a shot at you, I'd just love to know what it is you are seeing (and what other see when they say similar things about other rookies). It's the Kaleta effect again. We see someone who does something we like on the ice, and it's such a shock to us that we're willing to give them the key to the city just to not suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 That what use does he serve? Gausted does that better, as does Kaleta. We need someone intimidating in that role IMHO. As for the second point I see the logic in the system but don't see why it stops players from hitting, they just need to use their brain. I also don't see that as our main problem. I also don't think Gerbe as captain would change that, getting back to subject. That what use does he serve? Gausted does that better, as does Kaleta. We need someone intimidating in that role IMHO. As for the second point I see the logic in the system but don't see why it stops players from hitting, they just need to use their brain. I also don't see that as our main problem. I also don't think Gerbe as captain would change that, getting back to subject ;). Is there an echo in here? I don't want to have to answer twice. The short answer - I don't think anyone truly thinks of McCormick as an enforcer. He's a 4th-line grinder who hits and plays physical. Every team has them, every team needs them. Besides, what are we talking about here? Are we really nitpicking an energy, 4th line guy here when "The Core" stinks to holy hell? who was doing the talking? in any event, with or without attributed sources, this is clearly and maddeningly the case. and it's why i feel more and more and more that lindy and his system need to move on. young master kassian played like a crazed assassin in juniors; to wit: I don't recall the sources. I just recall the discussion on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightrider Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 I can never understand why people make these kind of statements 30 seconds into a guy's career. I'm not trying to take a shot at you, I'd just love to know what it is you are seeing (and what other see when they say similar things about other rookies). Well, what I have seen is a guy who seems sound defensively, doesn't get rattled (at least that I have seen), hits hard, and has offensive upside. He is just a lot better that I would have expected at this stage of his career. The fact that I am thinking like that says a lot more about the lack of leadership among the vets than it does about him, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielSabre Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 It's funny how fans will believe what they want despite being told by the players otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 I'm glad you said that knightrider. That lack of leadership is exactly what came to mind immediately as you said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 I'm glad you said that knightrider. That lack of leadership is exactly what came to mind immediately as you said that. Gerbe, Weber, and it looks like McNabb seem the best candidates long term for a letter. I don't mind Pominville or Vanek having an A, and Regehr should be the defacto C right now....but there is hope. Gerbe just gets picked on too much to be taken seriously as the captain ON the ice. We don't need him having too big a chip on his shoulder. An A in a year or two is very doable though. He is one of the only guys willing to take shots from anywhere...and they go in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChimp Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Gerbe is a little man with no fear, on a team full of bigger men who play scared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Gerbe, Weber, and it looks like McNabb seem the best candidates long term for a letter. I don't mind Pominville or Vanek having an A, and Regehr should be the defacto C right now....but there is hope. Gerbe just gets picked on too much to be taken seriously as the captain ON the ice. We don't need him having too big a chip on his shoulder. An A in a year or two is very doable though. He is one of the only guys willing to take shots from anywhere...and they go in. This is pretty reasonable, although I think Myers might be the right one for the C. He's not quite there yet but hopefully soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcsaberks Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Anyone watching 24/7 notice the dynamics of the Rangers? Callahan (2 years older than Gerbe) seems quiet, Drury like. Then Richards seems more flashy/vocal, passing out the Fedora after the game. I don't think there's one proven formula. Pommers seems like a pleaser. He works hard, is pretty good, gets on well with everyone and the coach. Handles the media well. Blah, boring, and thus far ineffective. If Gerbe can produce 40 - 50 a points a year, I could get on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Anyone watching 24/7 notice the dynamics of the Rangers? Callahan (2 years older than Gerbe) seems quiet, Drury like. Then Richards seems more flashy/vocal, passing out the Fedora after the game. I don't think there's one proven formula. Pommers seems like a pleaser. He works hard, is pretty good, gets on well with everyone and the coach. Handles the media well. Blah, boring, and thus far ineffective. If Gerbe can produce 40 - 50 a points a year, I could get on board. Callahan is quiet, but sharp and calculating. He also kills himself on the ice and is within 20 hits of the Sabres top 9 forwards combined. What I find interesting about them is Tortorella is willing to let there be big personalities around him who can challenge him and up his and the team's game. That's a lot of pressure when Jim Schoenfeld is acting as a GM/coach type. He also has the whole team hitting everything in sight and doesn't accept excuses. The pretty-boy Lundqvist and goofball Biron combo is also interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted January 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Lundqvist is one pretty ass dude. Just saying. He's in my top 5 cell mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Lundqvist is one pretty ass dude. Just saying. He's in my top 5 cell mates. :P I wonder if he lets Marty do his body shaving for him, or if he feels the need to do it himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Lundqvist is one pretty ass dude. Just saying. He's in my top 5 cell mates. :wub: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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