Bullwinkle Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 They like to say that, but I get the feeling that it was really only the two usual teams pushing for him. Buffalo was throwing huge money around and look how quickly they backed away from him. The point of the matter is that he was in demand. Still trying to find a PPG player who wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donteatyellowsnow Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Maybe im wrong but I thought PP goals don't count toward +/-. So let's say 20 of his 50 are on the PP, so a -10 really equates to him being on the ice for 40 of the opponents goals. I think that's right and not surprising. yep, good point ink. I forgot all about power play goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 So, the Devils had a huge shake up in their defense to start the year last year. It then took a half a season to get it together, and everyone blames the offense (Kovy) for their problems.Did anyone watch the Sabres last year? Maybe im wrong but I thought PP goals don't count toward +/-. So let's say 20 of his 50 are on the PP, so a -10 really equates to him being on the ice for 40 of the opponents goals. I think that's right and not surprising. IT always baffles me when a defense fails that the offense gets blamed for not scoring enough... +/- works like this: you get a +1 for each even strength goal you are on the ice for and - for each even strength goal scored against you. So kovalchuk is a victim of circumstance, he probable plays a lot of pp and so those points don't effect his +/-. Of course Vanek does too and he doesnt have the same +/- issues so Kovalchuk is kinda a lazy defensive player if you ask me but I bet he does pretty good this year in the goal department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 +/- works like this: you get a +1 for each even strength or shorthanded goal you are on the ice for and - for each even strength or shorthanded goal scored against you. Just to be technically correct. ^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFan526 Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Just to be technically correct. ^^^^ This is an extremely important point in the case of a player like Kovalchuk who plays the point on the PP. Because Kovalchuk plays defense on the PP and not forward, due to his ineptness in the defensive zone, his +/- is more inclined to be minus due to poor defensive play at the point that leads to shorthanded goals the other way. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a valuable player, but his +/- is susceptible to giving up shorthanded goals because he plays the point on the PP and is bad at it. It's like Kotalik playing the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james duncan Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 They like to say that, but I get the feeling that it was really only the two usual teams pushing for him. Buffalo was throwing huge money around and look how quickly they backed away from him. I have nothing to substantiate this, but it was my guess that the Richards Camp told Buffalo thanks but no thanks when they tried to set up an appointment on day one of free agency. If they did, they actually did the front office a favor if Richards had no intention of coming to Bflo as it let them look elsewhere in the meantime (aka Leino). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillerLight30 Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 How do u think Leino will perform under Ruff's system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillerLight30 Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 I see him paired with Pommer and Ennis. That line would be very creative and skilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwinkle Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 I have nothing to substantiate this, but it was my guess that the Richards Camp told Buffalo thanks but no thanks when they tried to set up an appointment on day one of free agency. If they did, they actually did the front office a favor if Richards had no intention of coming to Bflo as it let them look elsewhere in the meantime (aka Leino). I have exactly the same feeling. Richard's agent came on WGR and said he was hoping for a strong bid from the Sabres, but in reality I think Richards nixed that idea immediately. I believe the Sabres would have loved to get Richards rather than Leino if nothing but for the media splash it would have produced alongside getting Ehrhoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james duncan Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 How do u think Leino will perform under Ruff's system? Leino was very high on my wish list most of this past year--I see a lot of Flyer games. He played on a team with a lot of depth so it is easy to over-rate him, but I think he will prosper getting more time. I don't think finding suitable wingers will be a problem for him either. I have to be honest though, I never projected him as a center so it will be interesting. I know the Flyers wanted him and I can't find one fan who didn't really like him. Flyers opted not to negotiate a long-term deal during the season and I recall a story coming out that they told him they'd take care of him this offseason... Given the deal, I have to believe Ruff already has a plan for him and other than the trade deadline deals and with a full offseason to work, think it will be a good fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james duncan Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 I have exactly the same feeling. Richard's agent came on WGR and said he was hoping for a strong bid from the Sabres, but in reality I think Richards nixed that idea immediately. I believe the Sabres would have loved to get Richards rather than Leino if nothing but for the media splash it would have produced alongside getting Ehrhoff. Yup. Not a fabrication from his agent. It only makes sense that he was "hoping for a strong bid" because that would increase the price elsewhere. But given the way it went down, it only makes sense to me that Richards gave them a flat out "no" pretty much from the outset. And yes, I also think the Sabres coveted Richards and went to plan b only after they were sure he was not coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 I believe the agent coming on WGR was an attempt to capitalize on the Pelugaville hype and scare the Rangers into bringing their A game. I believe New York was always the choice as long as the $$$ were there. Buffalo and the rest were just levers in order to maximize the $$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwinkle Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 I believe the agent coming on WGR was an attempt to capitalize on the Pelugaville hype and scare the Rangers into bringing their A game. I believe New York was always the choice as long as the $$$ were there. Buffalo and the rest were just levers in order to maximize the $$$. Probably so but I still think the Sabres would have preferred Richards to Leino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 If money is no object, who wouldn't? (and I like Leino) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 I think you misunderstand. Brad Richards was in very hot demand earlier this month. Hardly a player a team would want to dump. I'm talking about a PPG player whom no one wants. No such thing as far as I know, regardless of his +/- I'm referring to Tampa's Salary dump to Dallas....Richards was basically given away. Halpernan and a 4th IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 When Kovalchuk scores 50 and is a minus 20, isn't that like him scoring 30? Isn't that the same as a guy scoring 20 and being a plus 10? I'll take the guy who scores 50 and is a minus 20 over the guy who only scores 20 and is a plus 10. Yikes no. If someone scores 50 @ even strength and is a minus twenty.....they are on the ice for 70 even strength goals against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChimp Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Pretty sure +/- doesn't come into play on special teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james duncan Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Pretty sure +/- doesn't come into play on special teams. It does...sometimes. If the shorthanded team scores, those skaters receive a +1. Likewise, the PP skaters receive -1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFan526 Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 I'm referring to Tampa's Salary dump to Dallas....Richards was basically given away. Halpernan and a 4th IIRC. Mike Smith was also involved in the trade. So, I guess you could say Dallas gave nothing although at that time Smith was a highly touted excellent puck moving backup goaltender that was on his way to take his game to the next level to become a full blown starter. Unfortunately for Tampa, that never actually happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvin Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 I believe the agent coming on WGR was an attempt to capitalize on the Pelugaville hype and scare the Rangers into bringing their A game. I believe New York was always the choice as long as the $$$ were there. Buffalo and the rest were just levers in order to maximize the $$$. If that was the case, then I'm glad the Sabres had a part to play in parting the Rags of some of their riches.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Mike Smith was also involved in the trade. So, I guess you could say Dallas gave nothing although at that time Smith was a highly touted excellent puck moving backup goaltender that was on his way to take his game to the next level to become a full blown starter. Unfortunately for Tampa, that never actually happened. Ah Smith too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Pretty sure +/- doesn't come into play on special teams. It does...sometimes. If the shorthanded team scores, those skaters receive a +1. Likewise, the PP skaters receive -1. Yeah, basically, if you have at least as many (>=) players as the other team, then you get a "-" if they score; if you have no more (<=) players than the other team, then you get a "+" if you score. Or another way to think about it is: you can't get a "+" if you have an advantage in number of players; you can't get a "-" if you have a disadvantage in number. (Note: number includes goalie, so if one team pulls its goalie at even strength, then it's 6 skaters vs. 5 skaters and a goalie, or 6-on-6, which is still even.) In summary: EV: + and - PP: - only PK: + only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 This is an extremely important point in the case of a player like Kovalchuk who plays the point on the PP. Because Kovalchuk plays defense on the PP and not forward, due to his ineptness in the defensive zone, his +/- is more inclined to be minus due to poor defensive play at the point that leads to shorthanded goals the other way. Don't get me wrong, I think he's a valuable player, but his +/- is susceptible to giving up shorthanded goals because he plays the point on the PP and is bad at it. It's like Kotalik playing the point. It was always hilarious watching him if a PKer got past him. He would essentially give up. I'm sure he's taken a decent hit to his number over the years for those kind of lackluster plays. It's the kind of thing that just screams "sign someone else" if you're trying to piece together a winner. Mike Smith was also involved in the trade. So, I guess you could say Dallas gave nothing although at that time Smith was a highly touted excellent puck moving backup goaltender that was on his way to take his game to the next level to become a full blown starter. Unfortunately for Tampa, that never actually happened. It's kind of funny that the only analysis of his play mentioned is that he's a puck mover. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 I have exactly the same feeling. Richard's agent came on WGR and said he was hoping for a strong bid from the Sabres, but in reality I think Richards nixed that idea immediately. I believe the Sabres would have loved to get Richards rather than Leino if nothing but for the media splash it would have produced alongside getting Ehrhoff. What's that saying about a stopped clock? I believe the agent coming on WGR was an attempt to capitalize on the Pelugaville hype and scare the Rangers into bringing their A game. I believe New York was always the choice as long as the $$$ were there. Buffalo and the rest were just levers in order to maximize the $$$. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullwinkle Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 What's that saying about a stopped clock? I agree. So you agree with me again. Good to see you're keeping up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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