stenbaro Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I dunno. Calling Miller dead weight is probably overstating things more than just a bit. You can make a strong argument that he is overpaid for his worth and the end results in W-L column, but calling him dead weight seems more than a bit hyperbole to me. Like I've mentioned before, there are alot bigger issues with this team than the starting goalie. I'd look to center ice and our top 4 defencemen before dragging Miller through the muck. I think he is Dead weight.....There are biggier issues with this team but when you add his huge salary to his below average play he is dead weight IMO....Move on..He is the third most overpaid player on this team but his salary is the largest issue in comparison to his return on asset as far as Im concerned..Hell Hecht Pominville Gaustad Connoly could all go as far as I am concerned in relation to the old adage return on asset....They could do much better for what they are paying these players....I would bet that Pegulla gets rid of those players first and start over if he can..My only fear is trading players like Kassian and Foligno to move those and rid the team of theyre salary.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icedus Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I dunno. Calling Miller dead weight is probably overstating things more than just a bit. You can make a strong argument that he is overpaid for his worth and the end results in W-L column, but calling him dead weight seems more than a bit hyperbole to me. Like I've mentioned before, there are alot bigger issues with this team than the starting goalie. I'd look to center ice and our top 4 defencemen before dragging Miller through the muck. Agreed. You also have to consider that goalies don't have very high trade value. For what Miller brings to this team, we'd lose in any trade involving him. It's true an average goalie won the cup last year, but there's quite a difference between the players that were in front of him and the players that are in front of Miller. We subtract Miller, and we go from a fringe playoff contender to bottom-five team. All-in-all, Miller is the face of the franchise, wouldn't bring much to the team in a trade, makes the organization money, and is the only player on the team that makes the Buffalo Sabres the slightest bit relevant. Trading him would be a bad move no matter how you look at it. If he ever gets moved, it will be the result of him leaving the team on his own terms and moving on to win the cup with a better-built team in front of him, ala Hasek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Agreed. You also have to consider that goalies don't have very high trade value. For what Miller brings to this team, we'd lose in any trade involving him. It's true an average goalie won the cup last year, but there's quite a difference between the players that were in front of him and the players that are in front of Miller. We subtract Miller, and we go from a fringe playoff contender to bottom-five team. All-in-all, Miller is the face of the franchise, wouldn't bring much to the team in a trade, makes the organization money, and is the only player on the team that makes the Buffalo Sabres the slightest bit relevant. Trading him would be a bad move no matter how you look at it. If he ever gets moved, it will be the result of him leaving the team on his own terms and moving on to win the cup with a better-built team in front of him, ala Hasek. Miller would bring the mother load..His name is worth way more than his play value..If I were Terry he would be the ultimate asset I would move...He would grab more than any other player on our roster....It would be a no brainer for me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Miller would bring the mother load..His name is worth way more than his play value..If I were Terry he would be the ultimate asset I would move...He would grab more than any other player on our roster....It would be a no brainer for me.... I hope Terry Pegula has this exact mindset. This team is not a Cup contender with Miller. It is time to restructure the team and start building form the forwards back. It is how you win in this era of the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donteatyellowsnow Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I hope Terry Pegula has this exact mindset. This team is not a Cup contender with Miller. It is time to restructure the team and start building form the forwards back. It is how you win in this era of the NHL. Well we know Pegula is a huge fan with season tickets and an opinion. He is either a Miller fan or he is not. If he is not, I have to think something is going to done to move him. FWIW, through his comments and on ice actions (him raising his arms in disbelief after a goal or the lack of team effort when he is in goal) almost seems like Ryan is becoming a locker room cancer, there really seems to be something wrong going on within the room/team. If I was on that team and he called me a fragile little kid, he would have a bloody nose that is for damn sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADMOFO518 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I hope Terry Pegula has this exact mindset. This team is not a Cup contender with Miller. It is time to restructure the team and start building form the forwards back. It is how you win in this era of the NHL. Politely disagree. If that were true, then the flyers would have won last year, they were completely stacked upfront. The caps are another case in point, they have just average goalies and are comletely loaded upfront. It is ying and yang, cant have one but not the other and win the ultimate prize. We just need a hockey guy to build this team, not some poindexter penny pincher like darcy regier who only cares about the bottom line. That is why i am cautiously optimistic, as we all are about the new regime... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Well we know Pegula is a huge fan with season tickets and an opinion. He is either a Miller fan or he is not. If he is not, I have to think something is going to done to move him. FWIW, through his comments and on ice actions (him raising his arms in disbelief after a goal or the lack of team effort when he is in goal) almost seems like Ryan is becoming a locker room cancer, there really seems to be something wrong going on within the room/team. If I was on that team and he called me a fragile little kid, he would have a bloody nose that is for damn sure. Why would they turn on him now? They are coming off of a tremendous run. Was last Sunday some type of final straw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Politely disagree. If that were true, then the flyers would have won last year, they were completely stacked upfront. The caps are another case in point, they have just average goalies and are comletely loaded upfront. It is ying and yang, cant have one but not the other and win the ultimate prize. We just need a hockey guy to build this team, not some poindexter penny pincher like darcy regier who only cares about the bottom line. That is why i am cautiously optimistic, as we all are about the new regime... Who did they lose to? The Blackhawks that were also "stacked upfront." The Hawks, Pens and Redwings have all won Stanley Cups without the benefit of having that "franchise goalie." That is the new model of success for the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donteatyellowsnow Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Why would they turn on him now? They are coming off of a tremendous run. Was last Sunday some type of final straw? No, cmon you can see it's been brewing for a while. That lockerroom has a lot of tension in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Politely disagree. If that were true, then the flyers would have won last year, they were completely stacked upfront. The caps are another case in point, they have just average goalies and are comletely loaded upfront. It is ying and yang, cant have one but not the other and win the ultimate prize. We just need a hockey guy to build this team, not some poindexter penny pincher like darcy regier who only cares about the bottom line. That is why i am cautiously optimistic, as we all are about the new regime... Chicago won with a very similar format to Philly's. 3 lines of up front talent, solid puck moving defence, and a goalie noone will remember in 3 more years. And Philly is still looking like the favorite to represent the EC again this year. With a pair of goalies only diehard fans are aware of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 No, cmon you can see it's been brewing for a while. That lockerroom has a lot of tension in it. I am not disagreeing with the entire premise. The timing just seems extremely odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Well we know Pegula is a huge fan with season tickets and an opinion. He is either a Miller fan or he is not. If he is not, I have to think something is going to done to move him. FWIW, through his comments and on ice actions (him raising his arms in disbelief after a goal or the lack of team effort when he is in goal) almost seems like Ryan is becoming a locker room cancer, there really seems to be something wrong going on within the room/team. If I was on that team and he called me a fragile little kid, he would have a bloody nose that is for damn sure. We don't know that Pegula is a huge fan. He doesn't have seasons any more. X. suggests they were merely company season tickets to spread around. Flyers/Pens/Sabres. Spin the wheel as to who he roots for. Who knows? He described his FAMILY as diehard Sabre fans in a statement recently. Actually, it's one of the main things I need to find out on Tuesday. I don't want this owner to start off on a lie. Ryan did it again last night. After the game he was breaking down the Sabres' shoot-ins. Can you imagine if the table was turned? Vanek picking apart where Miller leaves the puck for his D? Finally, I disagree about the importance of whether TP is a Miller fan. It shouldn't matter. He better have good hockey people in place. So far, DiPofi and Black, money men and lawyers. Kinda smells like OSP at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patty16 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Who did they lose to? The Blackhawks that were also "stacked upfront." The Hawks, Pens and Redwings have all won Stanley Cups without the benefit of having that "franchise goalie." That is the new model of success for the NHL. The hurricanes had Cam Ward, a 1st round draft pick, conn smythe winner and all star. umm the red wings rode Hasek until the playoffs and had osgood, no slouch himself. The Pens had Fluery a #1 overall draft pick The Hawks had Niemi, who they jettisoned after the season and is now the #1 goalie for the Sharks and having a solid year. He'll be back in the playoffs this year. So to say no franchise is the model??? what?? Yea teams can and do have success without one but thats a far cry from the statement you made calling it a new model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 We don't know that Pegula is a huge fan. He doesn't have seasons any more. X. suggests they were merely company season tickets to spread around. Flyers/Pens/Sabres. Spin the wheel as to who he roots for. Who knows? He described his FAMILY as diehard Sabre fans in a statement recently. Actually, it's one of the main things I need to find out on Tuesday. I don't want this owner to start off on a lie. Ryan did it again last night. After the game he was breaking down the Sabres' shoot-ins. Can you imagine if the table was turned? Vanek picking apart where Miller leaves the puck for his D? Finally, I disagree about the importance of whether TP is a Miller fan. It shouldn't matter. He better have good hockey people in place. So far, DiPofi and Black, money men and lawyers. Kinda smells like OSP at this point. I really don't think that matters one bit. Do you really think that if, deep down, he is a Flyers fan, that he is going to root against the team that he now owns? Or that he is going to jeopardize the quality of the Sabres because they might then beat the team that he really likes? That seams a little cuckoo to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I really don't think that matters one bit. Do you really think that if, deep down, he is a Flyers fan, that he is going to root against the team that he now owns? Or that he is going to jeopardize the quality of the Sabres because they might then beat the team that he really likes? That seams a little cuckoo to me. It matters that he is being sold as a Sabres fan, and most people think that will matter in how he operates the team. It would be great if he's a diehard Sabres fan, but for me it's almost as good if he's just a hockey fan, a Sabre follower because of his wife who wants to own the team in Buffalo. The bigger point is, don't make your first move as owner to bamboozle the fans. I want integrity and transparency in ownership. I want to know how this transformation took place, from Flyer fan in his young days to diehard Sabre fan now. I was a Sabre fan in 1975. How would I be a diehard Flyer today? I don't like team-shifters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 It matters that he is being sold as a Sabres fan, and most people think that will matter in how he operates the team. It would be great if he's a diehard Sabres fan, but for me it's almost as good if he's just a hockey fan, a Sabre follower because of his wife who wants to own the team in Buffalo. The bigger point is, don't make your first move as owner to bamboozle the fans. I want integrity and transparency in ownership. I want to know how this transformation took place, from Flyer fan in his young days to diehard Sabre fan now. I was a Sabre fan in 1975. How would I be a diehard Flyer today? I don't like team-shifters. I could care less about that. All I want is a good team to watch and a Cup. It just doesn't matter. How many Canadian boys grew up Leafs or Habs fans, only to win a Cup with the team they're on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADMOFO518 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Who did they lose to? The Blackhawks that were also "stacked upfront." The Hawks, Pens and Redwings have all won Stanley Cups without the benefit of having that "franchise goalie." That is the new model of success for the NHL. so are you saying that we are better off with just average goaltending? i think we should build a complete team around miller, and dump the slugs to greener pastures and build off the young prospects we have accumulated already... unless miller is in fact locker room cancer, which we have no idea because we arent privy to that kind of info. interesting speculation though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 The hurricanes had Cam Ward, a 1st round draft pick, conn smythe winner and all star. umm the red wings rode Hasek until the playoffs and had osgood, no slouch himself. The Pens had Fluery a #1 overall draft pick The Hawks had Niemi, who they jettisoned after the season and is now the #1 goalie for the Sharks and having a solid year. He'll be back in the playoffs this year. So to say no franchise is the model??? what?? Yea teams can and do have success without one but thats a far cry from the statement you made calling it a new model. Of course Ward was a rookie who had played only 28 games in the regular season that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Of course Ward was a rookie who had played only 28 games in the regular season that year. Why stop there? Fluery is not an elite goalie. Hasek and Osgood were the NHL equivalent of the Bucket List. What team last won with a big ticket goalie? New Jersey? Maybe Tampa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 so are you saying that we are better off with just average goaltending? i think we should build a complete team around miller, and dump the slugs to greener pastures and build off the young prospects we have accumulated already... unless miller is in fact locker room cancer, which we have no idea because we arent privy to that kind of info. interesting speculation though... His $6 mil price tag may make it difficult to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Why stop there? Fluery is not an elite goalie. Hasek and Osgood were the NHL equivalent of the Bucket List. What team last won with a big ticket goalie? New Jersey? Maybe Tampa? I wanted to let you have a chance to reply. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 This thread has turned silly. All the goalies mentioned might not be elite goalies, but they sure played elite when they won the Cup. Fluery and Niemi will both be back and Osgood is like Miller, when he's at his best he's boring. You're better off with a franchise goalie than without one IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 This thread has turned silly. All the goalies mentioned might not be elite goalies, but they sure played elite when they won the Cup. Fluery and Niemi will both be back and Osgood is like Miller, when he's at his best he's boring. You're better off with a franchise goalie than without one IMO. Thread summarized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patty16 Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Why stop there? Fluery is not an elite goalie. Hasek and Osgood were the NHL equivalent of the Bucket List. What team last won with a big ticket goalie? New Jersey? Maybe Tampa? You said franchise goalie, dont move the goalposts. Ward was a rookie with limited experience but he was drafted to be the franchise goalie, and he is. Hasek and Osgood, yea they werent playing well or anything, just had the fewest goals allowed in the league. they had something like a 2.10 GAA. Total bucket list. There isnt some new model regarding goalies. Stop getting your material from WGR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.