Season tickets

[ECHL]

I agree....I think the newer fans to the team itself don't know the history and ups and downs. The season ticket totals still reflect a fanbase that believes there is pent up demand even though every other number shows that the average fan of the team is as fickle as ever. It is a naive fanbse that keeps them in business at these levels right now.

 

Again....I can't wrong anyone for wanting to go to games or in buying season tickets. If you have fun, then by all means spend away. I do think that there is a bit of gamesmanship going on though by both the team and the fans in their thinking. But then again, maybe they are a match made in heaven for each other.

 

I bet that almost none of your regular writers here hold season tickets.

 

You people live in an echo chamber

 

echo chamber echo chamber echo chamber

 

echo chamber echo chamber echo chamber

 

I bet I would find more wisdom from "naeve" tix holders at HSBC and have.

[shrader]

I don't attend enough games to give a definitive answer but it certainly sounds like the building is half full of Leaf/Canadians fans. (insert PA commment) Probably just the sit-on-your-hands type Sabres fans the building is full of these days.

 

Anytime you get a large number of visiting fans, they tend to draw attention and make a lot of noise, especially when cities like those two are involved. I think most of us overestimate the precentages in those situation. I know I've done it when trying to figure out how many Sabre fans show up in Boston.

[Taro T]

...

 

You defeat your point on Platinum and gold games. Like I said.....no elasticity. If it ain't cheap....nobody wants them. And those same games are usually 50%+ filled with Leafs and Canadiens fans. They are obviously picking up tickets cheaper than face value from different sources.

 

My point isn't that this isn't a hockey town....it's that the average person wants nothing to do with paying to see this team. The Sabres have NO PRICING POWER LEFT!!! They were buying advertising like crazy last year to sell those last 2,000 tickets. If there is so much demand, why would Quinn price season tickets at such a "deep discount" to window price? It's because THERE ISN'T A REAL WINDOW PRICE!!!! 90% of the revenues come from the same group of people. He needs to ballwash them to make them keep coming. If people stepped back and understood the reality of these numbers, I am sure not as many would be getting season tickets. It's the ILLUSION of an IN DEMAND product and a DEAL that keep people renewing. Sure, most of these people enjoy the games no matter what, but if they knew that they could get their hands on 6,000 tickets a game with no pressure, there is no way they would pony up for 41 games at a time.....not at these levels.

 

I'd love to see who really buys these tickets. How much of it is corporate money under obligation, how many are a few buddies splitting seasons, how many are Sugarpackets, LLC. that resell 1500 seats through another avenue but count it towards season ticket sales......

 

I never will say that Larry Quinn is a bad businessman...because he isn't. Just the opposite....he knows what he has up here and how to manipulate it. Too bad the fans can't see it for what it is and fight back with a little collusion of our own.

You appear to be confusing elasticity of demand w/ gross quantity of demand. The demand appears to be quite elastic as it appears that the price increases (and decreases) result in disproportionately high decreases (and increases) in demand.

 

There is a waiting list of people trying to buy at value ticket prices (aka, ST's) and the Sabres are "advertising like crazy" to sell the ones at the steep price increase (aka, window prices). Which also indicates that demand is very elastic.

 

And those games aren't even CLOSE to having 50% Loaf fans at them. I would be very surprised if there are even 4,000 Loaf fans at any given Loaf-Sabre game. There will be the 3 pockets of them in the lower bowl that are most likely provided by ticket brokers (same areas of seats are visiting fans every time), and then I'd give you that probably 50-60% of the non-STH seats are filled w/ short bus riders wearing blue and hockey helmets and then random ones strewn throughout the building. Since the abominable snot smear reared its ugly head, the #'s of Loaf fans diminished tremendously. Those 3-4k fans are loaded and loud, but they aren't the majority of the building. Now back in '03, yeah we could be outnumbered by short bus riders, but not so much today.

 

As for your Q about who buys the tix, except for the suites which are obviously almost all corporate, I would expect that the %ages of corporate/ "regular guy" has skewed heavily towards "regular guy" in the past 5-10 years. I used to know a lot of people who had corporate tix in the past, and a lot of them have gotten rid of them; I don't know many business people that have bought for entertaining customers/clients/employees in the past few years. I am aware that that is entirely anecdotal, but it fuels my suspicion about the percentages. Throw on top the "regular Joe" thinking he can make back some / all of his cost of attending games by selling the Loaf tix and a few others; while the corporate guy, unless he is in the business of selling/reselling tix doesn't see enough profit to bother with it. The window price being 3x the STH price for some games makes it pretty reasonable to expect to get 2x for those games. (Whether people were successful at getting 2x for the tix is a Q for another thread, but it is reasonable to think that one COULD get that by putting the tix up early in the process.)

 

I agree w/ you that LQ seems to be a good businessman. It is smart to have the tix in the hands of STHers, because even if they undercut the window price on those few remaining tix they are very unlikely to have the seat go to waste. And there is no STH discount on beer, beef on weck, and the like. They sell out Atlanta games (where the STH can only undercut the Sabres by $2), those are beer sales that went forsaken prior to the "tiered pricing." The Rigas family gave away several thousand tix on most nights after Dom left (and at least several hundred on most nights before he left). While I don't doubt that the Sabres have bought a few tix to distrubute; there is absolutely no way it is even remotely close to the level it was during the criminals' reign.

 

And purely out of curiosity: what collusion are you looking for?

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Taro.

 

Thank you for the economic refresher. I think everyone knows what I mean.

 

If the common Joe is buying these season tickets, go ahead and ask them how often they were able to get 2x what they paid for a game. The Sabres have eaten up the middleground in most cases. I had a friend ask me to multiple games last year that he purchased for under season ticket holder cost in the clubs. I don't doubt that you can pay $20 for a 300 level against Toronto and get $50 for them....but try paying $170 for a pair of clubs and a parking pass against Columbus on Wednesday, January 15th....and see how often you get your money back.

 

Collusion? Simple. Don't let the team off the hook and buy up season tickets for lackluster or less than honest efforts from the top of the organization down. You can get a Florida season ticket for $240. If Larry Quinn takes you for a Rube, things will never get better. The sad thing is the deception was actually the worst during their best season. They were setting up for the purge that July 1st. They knew what was coming. But they played it right because they knew the tickets would be sold no matter what.

[static70]

I bet that almost none of your regular writers here hold season tickets.

 

You people live in an echo chamber

 

echo chamber echo chamber echo chamber

 

echo chamber echo chamber echo chamber

 

I bet I would find more wisdom from "naeve" tix holders at HSBC and have.

When I came home from the military in 92 my father passed his season tix on to me. I was a holder every season up until 04.

05-06 AND 06-07 I was back in uniform overseas. But even if I wasn't, I still wouldn't purchase season tickets. And now that unenjoyment has come to my doorstep, I don't see myself purchasing them for the next couple of seasons.

Even still, I wouldn't if I could. Certain games, yes, an entire season, no.

When Darcy is gone, I'll think about it, if I'm working full time again when that happens.

 

Darcy is like the recession, he just won't go away.

[spndnchz]

FWIW, I sold 10 of my games last year. I admit I didn't try as hard as I did the seasons before to sell them. Made 300 bucks. Games that sold over the 54% average mark up were Montreal on a Wed, San Jose on a Saturday, Pitt on a Tues and a Friday with Boston.

 

Certain teams, certain days, certain players on the other teams all play into it, but yup, not as lucrative any more. Not a money loser but still not as lucrative.

[ECHL]

Taro.

 

Thank you for the economic refresher. I think everyone knows what I mean.

 

If the common Joe is buying these season tickets, go ahead and ask them how often they were able to get 2x what they paid for a game. The Sabres have eaten up the middleground in most cases. I had a friend ask me to multiple games last year that he purchased for under season ticket holder cost in the clubs. I don't doubt that you can pay $20 for a 300 level against Toronto and get $50 for them....but try paying $170 for a pair of clubs and a parking pass against Columbus on Wednesday, January 15th....and see how often you get your money back.

 

Collusion? Simple. Don't let the team off the hook and buy up season tickets for lackluster or less than honest efforts from the top of the organization down. You can get a Florida season ticket for $240. If Larry Quinn takes you for a Rube, things will never get better. The sad thing is the deception was actually the worst during their best season. They were setting up for the purge that July 1st. They knew what was coming. But they played it right because they knew the tickets would be sold no matter what.

 

Rubes? You are just filled with concete. The product is NHL hockey.... in any NHL city the product is NHL hockey. Even the product in Sunrise is NHL hockey you sack of contradiction. Of course this is coming from someone that thinks winning feels like his Uncy's Member, so you represent the sophisticate fan. Your teamed is flawed? Boo - Hoo. Every team in the NE Division was flawed. Bufflo was the least flawed of them all.

[Taro T]

...

 

If the common Joe is buying these season tickets, go ahead and ask them how often they were able to get 2x what they paid for a game. The Sabres have eaten up the middleground in most cases. I had a friend ask me to multiple games last year that he purchased for under season ticket holder cost in the clubs. I don't doubt that you can pay $20 for a 300 level against Toronto and get $50 for them....but try paying $170 for a pair of clubs and a parking pass against Columbus on Wednesday, January 15th....and see how often you get your money back.

 

Collusion? Simple. Don't let the team off the hook and buy up season tickets for lackluster or less than honest efforts from the top of the organization down. You can get a Florida season ticket for $240. If Larry Quinn takes you for a Rube, things will never get better. The sad thing is the deception was actually the worst during their best season. They were setting up for the purge that July 1st. They knew what was coming. But they played it right because they knew the tickets would be sold no matter what.

Yes, I do think the regular guy is buying the tix. And I know that thinking they can get some of their money back (maybe even enough to pay for the seats) by selling some of the seats is part of the draw for a percentage of that crowd. That the resell market has softened (anecdotally definitely, but I believe that it is the case) only decreases the likelihood that a businessman is buying the seats to make a buck. And to answer your question about how often they got 2x, considering there were only 2 3x games; I'd expect the answer to be ~2.

 

What businessman is going to buy the seats thinking he can get $200 for a pair to watch Rick Nash on Groundhog's day in a blinding snowstorm? Probably not many (at least not many GOOD ones).

 

I stated flat out that it is REASONABLE to BELIEVE you can get a good chunk of your money back by buying tix, but whether it will actually happen is worthy of its own discussion (which btw is one that I probably won't join into - it just isn't that interesting to me). I also stated that getting ones money back is PART of the allure of getting tix for PART of the fan base.

[gregkash]

i didn't know deluca had 300 season tickets. you'd think he'd treat us all to a game, ya know?

[Taro T]

i didn't know deluca had 300 season tickets. you'd think he'd treat us all to a game, ya know?

:huh:

 

[Edit] :doh:

[jpgr909]

Those are the two cities that really show us up when we play them. I would say it's half as well.

I can only respond based on my dated personal info, but I had season tix for two years in the early 90s and we had the Loaf and Hab nations bearing down on us in their usual droves, and even with all of their boisterous displays, many induced by libations (no, really), there's no way they made up 50% of the crowd. As stated:

 

Anytime you get a large number of visiting fans, they tend to draw attention and make a lot of noise, especially when cities like those two are involved. I think most of us overestimate the precentages in those situation. I know I've done it when trying to figure out how many Sabre fans show up in Boston.

[jpgr909]

I bet that almost none of your regular writers here hold season tickets.

 

You people live in an echo chamber

 

echo chamber echo chamber echo chamber

 

echo chamber echo chamber echo chamber

 

I bet I would find more wisdom from "naeve" tix holders at HSBC and have.

1) You're a troll.

 

2) You misspelled "naeve," which seems a little ironic, doesn't it?

[ECHL]

1) You're a troll.

 

2) You misspelled "naeve," which seems a little ironic, doesn't it?

 

I seem to have higher regard for season tix holders than you. Do you think they are duped too? I may be wrong, but I display less contemp for the organization and its fans than most here although I have doubts about idiots that go to away games. I have found fans IN the HSBC building to be very knowledgeble about hockey and fair judges talent and many play hockey too. Are you a season ticket holder? I just don't think season tickets holders spend much time on collusion theory. The NHL is the best sports product and in Buffalo it is a bargain. So cry if you want. I just don't think it repesents good hockey opinion.

[ECHL]

1) You're a troll.

 

2) You misspelled "naeve," which seems a little ironic, doesn't it?

 

1) Do I call you a troll now (Is That's how this works)

 

2) I'm not a good speller or writer. Please please explain the irony. If I lived in Buffalo or any NHL city I would have season tickets if I could. I would pay to watch Miller, Mayers, Greer, Kalata, and maybe Adams or Enis soon. But I would also be paying to watch the team of visitors. Chara, Rask, Phaneuf, Crosby, Plecanik, Markof, Ovechkin, Iginla, whoever on that night.

[jpgr909]

1) Do I call you a troll now (Is That's how this works)

No. Because you're the troll. That or you're imitating one quite well.

 

2) Please please explain the irony.

You're making my point for me.

[tom webster]

I wouldn't sneeze at losing 300 season ticket holders.

 

“Our season ticket holders have been a crucial part of the business success of the Buffalo Sabres in recent years,” said Chief Operating Officer Dan DiPofi.

 

TW, note the necessary adjective -- "business."

 

 

Is that a random shot at me in a thread I am not even participating in?

[Ted's Hot Dogs]

looks like the sabres are moving to hamilton..and the bills to toronto..

[PASabreFan]

Is that a random shot at me in a thread I am not even participating in?

 

Yes.

[tom webster]

Yes.

 

 

Not sure I get it but I'll take it as a compliment.

[inkman]

Not sure I get it but I'll take it as a compliment.

Now more than ever I want to have a Sabrespace roundtable discussion. Notable attendees:

 

deluca

pa

tw

me (I don't think I'm worthy but who wouldn't want to see this!!)

 

chz servin drinks ;-)

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Yes, I do think the regular guy is buying the tix. And I know that thinking they can get some of their money back (maybe even enough to pay for the seats) by selling some of the seats is part of the draw for a percentage of that crowd. That the resell market has softened (anecdotally definitely, but I believe that it is the case) only decreases the likelihood that a businessman is buying the seats to make a buck. And to answer your question about how often they got 2x, considering there were only 2 3x games; I'd expect the answer to be ~2.

 

What businessman is going to buy the seats thinking he can get $200 for a pair to watch Rick Nash on Groundhog's day in a blinding snowstorm? Probably not many (at least not many GOOD ones).

 

I stated flat out that it is REASONABLE to BELIEVE you can get a good chunk of your money back by buying tix, but whether it will actually happen is worthy of its own discussion (which btw is one that I probably won't join into - it just isn't that interesting to me). I also stated that getting ones money back is PART of the allure of getting tix for PART of the fan base.

 

You are taking this out on a poor tangent.

 

I don't think many people in general look to buy tickets in order to make a buck. I think a lot of average Joes have turned into minor bagholders in purchasing season tickets knowing they can't afford a full season and hope to make money on the "extra" games, be it 5 or 35. Nowadays they are probably focused on recouping the money they shelled out.

 

I had season tickets from the time I was a teenager. Probably shouldn't have done it, but for $5 a ticket...why not? I didn't buy season tickets to make money. I was a Sabres fan. I kept them one extra year than I would have because they had value. I sold pretty much the entire season before it got started. The fanbase turned into a disgusting lot that 2006-07 season. Being involved at the time, many of the same people that can see what has happened now in hindsight were having a tough time separating themselves from their emotions back then. It really was sad. People were acting like Yankee fans....without the history or championships. That more than anything is why I could take $100 for a $15 ticket with a smile. For 3 or 4 months, Sabres Nation turned into douchebag central.

 

SDS never did answer my question as to how much site traffic has dropped off from that year.

 

Anyway.....whatever floats anyone's boat. Sillybandz....Justin Bieber....Sabres tickets....there will always be the flavor of the month, and those who want to pick it up on the downswing. Heck.....I'm sitting on a box of Ken griffey jr rookie cards.

[ECHL]

No. Because you're the troll. That or you're imitating one quite well.

 

 

You're making my point for me.

 

I don't have the best vocabulary but I think I made my point. I don't need a college degree (UB is it?)_ to know call collusion nonsense a truckload of BS. Or do you agree with him?

[ECHL]

You are taking this out on a poor tangent.

 

I don't think many people in general look to buy tickets in order to make a buck. I think a lot of average Joes have turned into minor bagholders in purchasing season tickets knowing they can't afford a full season and hope to make money on the "extra" games, be it 5 or 35. Nowadays they are probably focused on recouping the money they shelled out.

 

I had season tickets from the time I was a teenager. Probably shouldn't have done it, but for $5 a ticket...why not? I didn't buy season tickets to make money. I was a Sabres fan. I kept them one extra year than I would have because they had value. I sold pretty much the entire season before it got started. The fanbase turned into a disgusting lot that 2006-07 season. Being involved at the time, many of the same people that can see what has happened now in hindsight were having a tough time separating themselves from their emotions back then. It really was sad. People were acting like Yankee fans....without the history or championships. That more than anything is why I could take $100 for a $15 ticket with a smile. For 3 or 4 months, Sabres Nation turned into douchebag central.

 

SDS never did answer my question as to how much site traffic has dropped off from that year.

 

Anyway.....whatever floats anyone's boat. Sillybandz....Justin Bieber....Sabres tickets....there will always be the flavor of the month, and those who want to pick it up on the downswing. Heck.....I'm sitting on a box of Ken griffey jr rookie cards.

Your contemp for your teams own fans is staggering. If hockey is no fun for you why the crusade?

[static70]

Now more than ever I want to have a Sabrespace roundtable discussion. Notable attendees:

 

deluca

pa

tw

me (I don't think I'm worthy but who wouldn't want to see this!!)

 

chz servin drinks ;-)

Can we get ESPN Ocho to host. They did a great job with the Dodge Ball tournament. :rolleyes:

[shrader]

1) Do I call you a troll now (Is That's how this works)

 

2) I'm not a good speller or writer. Please please explain the irony. If I lived in Buffalo or any NHL city I would have season tickets if I could. I would pay to watch Miller, Mayers, Greer, Kalata, and maybe Adams or Enis soon. But I would also be paying to watch the team of visitors. Chara, Rask, Phaneuf, Crosby, Plecanik, Markof, Ovechkin, Iginla, whoever on that night.

 

I'm not trying to fan the flames at all, but I got a good chuckle out of how you mentioned that you're not a good speller/writer, then went on to spell every Sabre name you mentioned incorrectly (minus Miller).