Trade Target Watch

[shrader]

The best part about all of this will be when Kovalchuk bolts for the KHL next year.

[ThePebble19]

...because he's a soft Euro floater that hasn't shown any ability to lead a team to anything. I have no problem with the idea of bringing an impact player into the fold but it better be the right player. Have the Isles recovered from trading for Yashin(they gave up Chara and Spezza!)? If the Sabres are going to have to give up Kassian, Adam, Butler, Pominville and Ennis (this is the type of package were talking about), it better be for a player who instantly brings credibilty to your organization. Ilya would hardly do that. It would strip the Sabres of any potential to be competitive for the next decade.

 

+1. Not to mention the fact that the player would only be here for half of this season, because I don't see any way that he would sign here long term.

 

Here's the only catch: It sounds crazy now, because they are asking for 4-5 players/picks, and everyone and their mother is saying how much young talent it would take to make this deal happen.

 

I would probably bet that if he isn't dealt until the last day of the deadline, the package he gets moved for will be MUCH less than what everyone is talking about now. It always seems to happen like that, and we will all say, "If he could have been had for that, why didn't we offer ____?" The problem is that up until that final day, Atlanta will be looking for the HUGE payoff. I just don't think anyone will give them what they are asking for right now, which is why when it comes to crunch time, I think he will get moved for a deal that is quite a bit less than anyone thinks.

[BetweenThePipes00]

Even if Kovalchuk WAS the ideal guy (which I doubt, my concerns are along the lines of Ink's ... as I have said before, he looks a lot like Yashin on paper and paper is all his career amounts to because he has shown zero intangibles) ... he is not signing an extension with Buffalo. The ONLY way giving up a big package of players and prospects for anyone makes snese is if you know you can keep that guy around going forward.

I mean, Darcy repeats over and over that the free agent market is the most expensive place to get players and he doesn't like to do it ... getting Kovalchuk would mean paying not only the money of a top free agent but also giving up player assets. It's really not smart.

 

That said, I would like to see some moves, and not just small ones ... blowing up the roster might be going a bit far, but Myers and Miller would be the only guys I would not discuss if I was the GM.

 

 

[deluca67]

A good hockey team is more than the sum of its parts. As tempting as it is to "blow up the roster," it almost never works. Look at Montreal and the Rangers.

 

I wouldn't mind trading for Kovy, but I certainly wouldn't give up, say, Vanek, Butler and Kassian for him. Pommer and a #1? Now you're talking.

Give Miller to the Rangers or Habs and take their goalie in return and see where the teams end up. Unless you are saying the current roster is good enough to win the Stanley Cup there is no justifiable reason not to make a deal.

[deluca67]

The best part about all of this will be when Kovalchuk bolts for the KHL next year.

Who cares? I'm not interested in signing him long term. I'll take for the stretch run and hopefully a Cup run.

[BetweenThePipes00]

Give Miller to the Rangers or Habs and take their goalie in return and see where the teams end up. Unless you are saying the current roster is good enough to win the Stanley Cup there is no justifiable reason not to make a deal.

 

A deal, yes. Multiple deals, yes. A deal for Kovalchuk, who would not be around beyond July 1, no. Your opinion of what would be left on the Sabres after a deal for him is way beyond mine, I guess, because I doubt it would be a Stanley Cup team in 4 months.

[deluca67]

Even if Kovalchuk WAS the ideal guy (which I doubt, my concerns are along the lines of Ink's ... as I have said before, he looks a lot like Yashin on paper and paper is all his career amounts to because he has shown zero intangibles) ... he is not signing an extension with Buffalo. The ONLY way giving up a big package of players and prospects for anyone makes snese is if you know you can keep that guy around going forward.

I mean, Darcy repeats over and over that the free agent market is the most expensive place to get players and he doesn't like to do it ... getting Kovalchuk would mean paying not only the money of a top free agent but also giving up player assets. It's really not smart.

That said, I would like to see some moves, and not just small ones ... blowing up the roster might be going a bit far, but Myers and Miller would be the only guys I would not discuss if I was the GM.

And Darcy's way has gotten the Sabres what? Nothing. In recent history the team has been out of the playoffs more than it has made them. How do you break a bad cycle? You do something different.

[deluca67]

A deal, yes. Multiple deals, yes. A deal for Kovalchuk, who would not be around beyond July 1, no. Your opinion of what would be left on the Sabres after a deal for him is way beyond mine, I guess, because I doubt it would be a Stanley Cup team in 4 months.

It's not now, so what is there to lose?

[ThePebble19]

It's not now, so what is there to lose?

 

It really depends on what you are considering a fair trade for a guy like Kovy, to make a legit cup run this season. If you are talking about trading Ennis/Gerbe/Kassian all in the same package with a couple of our roster guys now, you lose what could be your young future for the next few years.

 

If you are talking about something like Stafford/Mac/Kassian/Butler/1st Rd Pick, I really don't have a problem with that. There are 3 young roster guys with great potential, that just haven't played consistant enough to be top line forwards/defenseman, plus a pick and a good, young prospect. We saw a brief flash of what Ennis/Gerbe could do when they were up earlier in the year, and I don't think you lose much if you fill a spot with Kovy and have to bring one of the younger forwards up to fill a spot. With a trade like this, what are you really losing for next season? Nothing. You lose a couple of guys that could be easily replaced with similar players in the AHL.

 

While I still think that there will be a lesser deal made for Kovy at the deadline, this would be one Trade that I would not mind.

[nfreeman]

The best part about all of this will be when Kovalchuk bolts for the KHL next year.

This is an interesting possibility. I don't think he'll get a $100MM deal here, but he might get one there, and it's tax-free there too, so the real difference is, say $40MM over 10 years to play here (if he got a 10-year, $80MM deal) vs., say, $60MM over 4 years to play there.

 

Give Miller to the Rangers or Habs and take their goalie in return and see where the teams end up. Unless you are saying the current roster is good enough to win the Stanley Cup there is no justifiable reason not to make a deal.

Both the Rangers and Habs have gotten good to very good goaltending this year. Their problems are lack of heart and cohesiveness (in both cases) and lack of offensive skill in the Rangers' case.

 

The current Sabres roster is not good enough to win a Cup. That doesn't justify blowing up the roster, which will almost certainly result in a major step back. It justifies tweaking it until the mix is good enough to win the Cup. The Devils aren't good enough to win the Cup this year either. Do think Lamoriello will blow up his roster?

[deluca67]

This is an interesting possibility. I don't think he'll get a $100MM deal here, but he might get one there, and it's tax-free there too, so the real difference is, say $40MM over 10 years to play here (if he got a 10-year, $80MM deal) vs., say, $60MM over 4 years to play there.

 

 

Both the Rangers and Habs have gotten good to very good goaltending this year. Their problems are lack of heart and cohesiveness (in both cases) and lack of offensive skill in the Rangers' case.

 

The current Sabres roster is not good enough to win a Cup. That doesn't justify blowing up the roster, which will almost certainly result in a major step back. It justifies tweaking it until the mix is good enough to win the Cup. The Devils aren't good enough to win the Cup this year either. Do think Lamoriello will blow up his roster?

He will do whatever it takes to win a Stanley Cup which is his only focus.

[nfreeman]

He will do whatever it takes to win a Stanley Cup which is his only focus.

Right, but the way he goes about it, which is what we're discussing, is not by blowing up his roster.

[MDFan]

It really depends on what you are considering a fair trade for a guy like Kovy, to make a legit cup run this season. If you are talking about trading Ennis/Gerbe/Kassian all in the same package with a couple of our roster guys now, you lose what could be your young future for the next few years.

 

If you are talking about something like Stafford/Mac/Kassian/Butler/1st Rd Pick, I really don't have a problem with that. There are 3 young roster guys with great potential, that just haven't played consistant enough to be top line forwards/defenseman, plus a pick and a good, young prospect. We saw a brief flash of what Ennis/Gerbe could do when they were up earlier in the year, and I don't think you lose much if you fill a spot with Kovy and have to bring one of the younger forwards up to fill a spot. With a trade like this, what are you really losing for next season? Nothing. You lose a couple of guys that could be easily replaced with similar players in the AHL.

 

While I still think that there will be a lesser deal made for Kovy at the deadline, this would be one Trade that I would not mind.

 

I would not mind seeing the Sabres make a bold move for a cup run, and I agree the current team does not seem to have what it takes to go deep in the playoffs. Giving anything close to these suggestions for Kovy would be insane in my opinion. In fact, I would not like to see him on the team. What makes anyone think he would be the difference? Has he made a difference in Atlanta? They have built their team around him, allowed him to be a freewheeling offensive player, yet it has not at all helped Atlanta to rise to even a sustainable mediocre status. No wonder they are thinking of cutting ties. On the Sabres, he may score some goals, but would not provide any toughness or leadership, the two elements the Sabres are most lacking IMO, and he may well hurt the overall defense and team chemistry. Good thing this will never happen. If they are going to deal their future for an improved chance at the cup this year, it had better be for someone with a future here that can add more than a few goals. Talk about dealing Miller for any return at this point is simply crazy.

[shrader]

This is an interesting possibility. I don't think he'll get a $100MM deal here, but he might get one there, and it's tax-free there too, so the real difference is, say $40MM over 10 years to play here (if he got a 10-year, $80MM deal) vs., say, $60MM over 4 years to play there.

 

The reports of the money that Atlanta offered and what Kovalchuk wants are absolutely absurd. Kovalchuk is the ultimate mercenary at this point. Team is not going to factor in one bit. He is going to the highest bidder. With all the threats from the KHL wanting to make a major splash, Kovalchuk is ideal for them now that they have no possible shot at Ovechkin.

 

The only possible problem with the money over there if he can get it is the constant mob connections you always hear about over there.

[BetweenThePipes00]

And Darcy's way has gotten the Sabres what? Nothing. In recent history the team has been out of the playoffs more than it has made them. How do you break a bad cycle? You do something different.

 

 

It's not now, so what is there to lose?

 

 

He will do whatever it takes to win a Stanley Cup which is his only focus.

 

 

I am not endorsing "Darcy's way," but trading a bunch of players and prospects for one guy who will be on your team for only a couple months is not the only OTHER way. I am not even sure that getting Kovalchuk on this team WITHOUT subtracting anything makes them the favorite, so how can you justify that deal? Even with Kovalchuk, I think I would consider it an upset if the Sabres beat Pittsburgh or Washington in a 7-game series. So what there is to lose is the possibility of building to that point next year or the year after. The Stanley Cup should the focus, but they award it every year ... does it HAVE to be THIS Stanley Cup that is the ONLY focus? Because when I look at THIS Stanley Cup, I doubt the Sabres win it, even with Kovalchuk. The odds are too long to justify that deal. They would be better of trying to buy him in July and make the run next season.

[static70]

I am simply baffled by all of this "Kolvachuk would not work in Buffalo" garbabe. Its as if people are posting that the current system and talent this team has is successful. Last time I was at HSBC (last night) I didn't see any Stanley Cup banners hanging in the rafters. It should be clear by now this system does not achieve an end result that is acceptable or, the talent within the system doesn't fit.

 

This is not to say that defensive hockey is not important, it is very important. But to be quite honest here, Kovalchuk would add a deminsion to this team it hasn't had since Drury/Briere were here, and that is, "consistent scoring". Is it a gamble, absolutely. Every year a team should be running for the Cup, this is no different for the Sabres. Currently, this team has shown it is not prepared to take on the likes of Wash., Pitt., SJ or Chi. in a 7 game series, those teams have something the Sabres do not...................."consistent scoring".

 

Miller is no Hasek and it has been proven that he can be beat by each one of these teams, heavy workload or not.

[ThePebble19]

I would not mind seeing the Sabres make a bold move for a cup run, and I agree the current team does not seem to have what it takes to go deep in the playoffs. Giving anything close to these suggestions for Kovy would be insane in my opinion. In fact, I would not like to see him on the team. What makes anyone think he would be the difference? Has he made a difference in Atlanta? They have built their team around him, allowed him to be a freewheeling offensive player, yet it has not at all helped Atlanta to rise to even a sustainable mediocre status. No wonder they are thinking of cutting ties. On the Sabres, he may score some goals, but would not provide any toughness or leadership, the two elements the Sabres are most lacking IMO, and he may well hurt the overall defense and team chemistry. Good thing this will never happen. If they are going to deal their future for an improved chance at the cup this year, it had better be for someone with a future here that can add more than a few goals. Talk about dealing Miller for any return at this point is simply crazy.

 

I absolutely think he would make an impact on another team, especially ours. Have you seen what Atlanta's collective GAA is since the lockout? 3.23. So, on any given night, their offense has to score 3-4 goals to even be considered competitive. You can put a great team around him all you want, but they have had pitiful goaltending for the last 5 years, and that completely kills their team. If you put Kovy on this team, and he is given the same free-roaming freedom he was given in Atlanta, he immediately changes the offensive outlook.

[shrader]

Miller is no Hasek and it has been proven that he can be beat by each one of these teams, heavy workload or not.

 

I just have to nitpick this one. When has it been proven that Miller can be beat by this current Blackhawks team?

[static70]

I just have to nitpick this one. When has it been proven that Miller can be beat by this current Blackhawks team?

Nitpick away, Miller doesn't beat the Black Hawks, they will smoke him. Offensive fire power is what it is, Miller's abilities are what they are. Take it for what its worth.

[That Aud Smell]

Even with Kovalchuk, I think I would consider it an upset if the Sabres beat Pittsburgh or Washington in a 7-game series. So what there is to lose is the possibility of building to that point next year or the year after. The Stanley Cup should the focus, but they award it every year ... does it HAVE to be THIS Stanley Cup that is the ONLY focus? Because when I look at THIS Stanley Cup, I doubt the Sabres win it, even with Kovalchuk. The odds are too long to justify that deal. They would be better of trying to buy him in July and make the run next season.

what are you ... some sort of reasonable person?

 

;)

[shrader]

Nitpick away, Miller doesn't beat the Black Hawks, they will smoke him. Offensive fire power is what it is, Miller's abilities are what they are. Take it for what its worth.

 

Just like they smoked Lalime? But then again, how the results of one single game project out to a 7 game series is beyond me. Hell, none of these teams will be what they currently are now or what they were when they previously met when the playoffs roll around.

[static70]

I am not endorsing "Darcy's way," but trading a bunch of players and prospects for one guy who will be on your team for only a couple months is not the only OTHER way. I am not even sure that getting Kovalchuk on this team WITHOUT subtracting anything makes them the favorite, so how can you justify that deal? Even with Kovalchuk, I think I would consider it an upset if the Sabres beat Pittsburgh or Washington in a 7-game series. So what there is to lose is the possibility of building to that point next year or the year after. The Stanley Cup should the focus, but they award it every year ... does it HAVE to be THIS Stanley Cup that is the ONLY focus? Because when I look at THIS Stanley Cup, I doubt the Sabres win it, even with Kovalchuk. The odds are too long to justify that deal. They would be better of trying to buy him in July and make the run next season.

I wonder what you would say if Calgary and/or Toronto become Cup competitive in 2 or 3 seasons while Buffalo sits in the mediocrity position. To be reasonable, fans in Buffalo have waited 40 years for a Cup, and from the organizations stand point, every year should be "The Year" to run for the cup, thats just common sense.

I wouldn't consider it an upset against any team if management makes the moves necessary to put the pieces in place to beat those opponents. I don't see any star studed stellar talent in the current Sabres pipeline thats gonna make a concerted effort to run and gun with Crosby or Ovechkin. No, Kovalchuk is about as close as it comes.

 

You sign him, rental or extension, whatever can be done to improve the teams odds.

[static70]

Just like they smoked Lalime? But then again, how the results of one single game project out to a 7 game series is beyond me. Hell, none of these teams will be what they currently are now or what they were when they previously met when the playoffs roll around.

Well, you can post your counter point, I am listening, but it does nothing to change my opinion of the situation. This teams goaltending has been decent, but the defense infront of them have improved from last season as well. When I see a Spezza for example, going top shelf, I've said all along, Miller lays down way to often, going high is the key to success against him. Same thing in SJ, Pitt from the side. These guys position themselves and they have deadly accurate shots, Miller has no chance most of the time. Like I said, it is what it is. We have a decent goalie, but I stand firmly by my assesment, he never has been nor will he ever approach the likes of Hasek, with that in mind I do not see success against these offensive jaugernaughts in the playoffs.

[spndnchz]

I wonder what you would say if Calgary and/or Toronto become Cup competitive in 2 or 3 seasons while Buffalo sits in the mediocrity position. To be reasonable, fans in Buffalo have waited 40 years for a Cup, and from the organizations stand point, every year should be "The Year" to run for the cup, thats just common sense.

I wouldn't consider it an upset against any team if management makes the moves necessary to put the pieces in place to beat those opponents. I don't see any star studed stellar talent in the current Sabres pipeline thats gonna make a concerted effort to run and gun with Crosby or Ovechkin. No, Kovalchuk is about as close as it comes.

 

You sign him, rental or extension, whatever can be done to improve the teams odds.

 

I'm not on the Kovy boat, but the Thrashers want a top-six forward, a top-four defenseman and a top prospect for Kovalchuk.

 

IMO, we don't have what Atlanta wants. They won't take someone that is UFA or RFA within the next few years. We're not selling Vanek or Pommers or Connolly for a rental. The only top 4 D we truly have for a while is Myers. So who r u sending their way?

[Rip Titwide]

I am not endorsing "Darcy's way," but trading a bunch of players and prospects for one guy who will be on your team for only a couple months is not the only OTHER way. I am not even sure that getting Kovalchuk on this team WITHOUT subtracting anything makes them the favorite, so how can you justify that deal? Even with Kovalchuk, I think I would consider it an upset if the Sabres beat Pittsburgh or Washington in a 7-game series. So what there is to lose is the possibility of building to that point next year or the year after. The Stanley Cup should the focus, but they award it every year ... does it HAVE to be THIS Stanley Cup that is the ONLY focus? Because when I look at THIS Stanley Cup, I doubt the Sabres win it, even with Kovalchuk. The odds are too long to justify that deal. They would be better of trying to buy him in July and make the run next season.

Well said. Im a big pusher for trading to make the team better. Nothing wrong with indulging in the thought of a blockbuster deal such as with Kovy. But hear me on this. This team is SO far off of the SC ingredient list, trading a ton of young players, picks, and current roster spots just seems like one of those moves that haunt you far beyond the 2 months of service that player graced you with. Buffalo IS NOT CLOSE. Competitive? Absolutely. Cup worthy? NFW

Look at the list of championship rosters My link

Without exception, each is a mix of rock solid goaltending, top end consistent scoring, solid responsible defensemen, old grizzled vets who HAVE WON IT BEFORE, and a few low key role players, all taking pressure off of a few highly talented young players who therefore thrive. Out of that list we have our beloved Ryan Miller and Tyler Myers.

It takes time (developing Miller), foresight (moving up the board to take Myers), and maybe even a year or two in the tank (to get Vanek talent) but a move for Kovalchuk would just derail any momentum we have towards finding "the ingredients".