inkman Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 I know, I know. At least it relates to one of the two words in the team's name. Yeah but the team name is Sabres, Buffalo happens to be where they reside. Don't get me started on the Bills name. Shouldn't Buffalo Bill somehow be a part of the logo? It's not Buffalo buffaloes or Buffalo Bison. It's a homage to Buffalo Bill, so why no representation? Just stupid. Why mot incorporate something like this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 It wouldn't matter if you were able to bring in an unthinkable amount of money. If you don't receive permission from whatever group you're using, you can't use their name. The NCAA will not allow money to play a role in this particular matter. The Sioux tribe has said they have no problem with North Dakota's name, yet the NCAA will still not let them use it. They don't bring in big money to the NCAA, so the NCAA says "screw you". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 The Sioux tribe has said they have no problem with North Dakota's name, yet the NCAA will still not let them use it. They don't bring in big money to the NCAA, so the NCAA says "screw you". Sorry shrader, but from everything I've read that's just incorrect. The Sioux tribe has refused to approve the logo since the school threatened to sue the NCAA: (LINK) GRAND FORKS - The chairman of the Standing Rock Sioux tribe says it's time for the University of North Dakota to get rid of its Fighting Sioux nickname and "choose an image that all of North Dakota can be proud of." Ron His Horse Is Thunder told a group of students and teachers Tuesday that the best way to honor the tribe is to teach students about the contributions that American Indians have made to American life. ----- Under a settlement with the NCAA announced last month, UND has three years to try to persuade Sioux tribes in North Dakota to support the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo, which the NCAA considers hostile and abusive. "There's ample time for them (UND) to make that change," Gipp said Tuesday. "Today is the day for them to do that, not to wait for several years down the pike." His Horse Is Thunder said lobbying efforts by nickname supporters would be a waste of time. Florida State - the "big money" school I assume you are referring to -- had to threaten lawsuits and wage a PR battle to get the NCAA to back down, providing official, documented support from the Seminole Tribe of Florida, the Governor of Florida, and eventually the Seminole Tribe of Oklahoma before the NCAA relented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 I've seen conflicting reports on that whole situation. I forget if its specific tribes, but there has been support for the name. The NCAA's action up there haven't been met with much support up there though, I can say that much. The money comment wasn't in regard to any specific school, but its a statement about the NCAA itself. That whole organization is motivated by nothing but money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Sorry shrader, but from everything I've read that's just incorrect. The Sioux tribe has refused to approve the logo since the school threatened to sue the NCAA: (LINK) Florida State - the "big money" school I assume you are referring to -- had to threaten lawsuits and wage a PR battle to get the NCAA to back down, providing official, documented support from the Seminole Tribe of Florida, the Governor of Florida, and eventually the Seminole Tribe of Oklahoma before the NCAA relented. Could somebody please explain to me how naming a team the Fighting Illini, or the Seminoles, or the Utes is disrespectful? I understand how someone could take offense at Chief Wahoo or the "Redskins" but it doesn't make sense to take issue with the others. My high school took kids from several towns and the school was named after an Indian federation. So, not surprisingly, the sports teams were the "Chiefs". We named our team after the head warrior because we were supposed to display those same characteristics, isn't that respectful? I was always very proud to wear the moniker. I remember a few years back, Richard Mills crying about how that name and others were disrespectful. If the teams had been the "Drunk Injuns", I could absolutely see his point; but considering the school took an Indian name how is being the "Chiefs" a disrespect? TTBOMK, he never took issue with naming the school after the federation, he took issue w/ the name the "Chiefs". Would it have been better to name ourselves the Indian "laid off steel workers"? Again, somebody please explain this to me, as I just don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 I've seen conflicting reports on that whole situation. I forget if its specific tribes, but there has been support for the name. The NCAA's action up there haven't been met with much support up there though, I can say that much. The money comment wasn't in regard to any specific school, but its a statement about the NCAA itself. That whole organization is motivated by nothing but money. It looks like there are three tribes in question WRT the ND case: The Standing Rock Sioux and the Sisseton-Wahpeton Sioux both clearly opposed "the university's use of the 'Fighting Sioux' nickname and imagery," Franklin said in a statement. The Spirit Lake Sioux tribe has made statements both favoring and opposing the nickname and logo, and Franklin said the NCAA was unsuccessful in getting a clarification. The board of United Tribes, which includes representatives of the five American Indian tribes in North Dakota, also unanimously approved a resolution supporting the NCAA ban. LINK As for the other part - while I don't disagree that the NCAA is a shady, hypocritical organization run by jackasses, I don't think the "big-money schools get a pass" has any merit. The NCAA initially cited 18 schools, and just three have been given exemptions after proving their ties to the individual tribes and showing that they have their support (FSU, Utah and Central Michigan.) Outside of FSU the others aren't what I'd consider big-money schools. Would it be different if Notre Dame, USC, Ohio State, Florida, etc., all had Indian names? Maybe, maybe not. I find it so hard to guess what the NCAA will do anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Could somebody please explain to me how naming a team the Fighting Illini, or the Seminoles, or the Utes is disrespectful? I understand how someone could take offense at Chief Wahoo or the "Redskins" but it doesn't make sense to take issue with the others. My high school took kids from several towns and the school was named after an Indian federation. So, not surprisingly, the sports teams were the "Chiefs". We named our team after the head warrior because we were supposed to display those same characteristics, isn't that respectful? I was always very proud to wear the moniker. I remember a few years back, Richard Mills crying about how that name and others were disrespectful. If the teams had been the "Drunk Injuns", I could absolutely see his point; but considering the school took an Indian name how is being the "Chiefs" a disrespect? TTBOMK, he never took issue with naming the school after the federation, he took issue w/ the name the "Chiefs". Would it have been better to name ourselves the Indian "laid off steel workers"? Again, somebody please explain this to me, as I just don't get it. I understand what you're saying, and I agree. I can certainly see a disctinction between Chief Wahoo and the Chiefs. I certainly see a distinction between the Seminoles and the Redskins (although it was hilarious to see longtime FSU nemesis Steve Spurrier go to coach the Redskins and when they rolled out their throwback helmets and uniforms. Nice to see him looking uncomfortable in front of a helmet eerily similar to FSU's helmet...) I'm white and I find some of this stuff offensive, or in some cases just bad taste. A FSU trainer came up with the idea of Gatorade before the Florida trainers did (rumors are that the formula was stolen, though it wouldn't be the first time someone did something like that) but the FSU version was called Seminole Firewater. Given the Native American's proclivity for alcoholism and the term "firewater's" association with alcohol - well that would be in very poor taste. Look, had I not gone to Florida State and learned about the Seminole tribe from their association with the university, I don't think it's an overstatement to say that I probably would not have known anything of them at all. Because of my association with the university I've been able to educate (somewhat) my family and friends about the significance of the tribe. The other question I have is the "slippery slope" argument - where does it stop? Do we rename cities, towns, geographical areas, state names? What about military installments/equipment/weapons/vehicles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Could somebody please explain to me how naming a team the Fighting Illini, or the Seminoles, or the Utes is disrespectful? I understand how someone could take offense at Chief Wahoo or the "Redskins" but it doesn't make sense to take issue with the others. And if those are offensive, why aren't state names like Illinois or Utah offensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 You are right... :thumbsup: :thumbsup: The Senators should look like this: :lol: It'd be better if one of you photoshop geniuses could get Alfie's face there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Maybe the Native American's could get back at us by starting their own franchise and naming it "The Crackers". Or maybe "The Ghost-faced Oppressors". Possibly "The Smallpox Bringers". Oh wait...I don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sloth Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 I understand what you're saying, and I agree. I can certainly see a disctinction between Chief Wahoo and the Chiefs. I certainly see a distinction between the Seminoles and the Redskins (although it was hilarious to see longtime FSU nemesis Steve Spurrier go to coach the Redskins and when they rolled out their throwback helmets and uniforms. Nice to see him looking uncomfortable in front of a helmet eerily similar to FSU's helmet...) I'm white and I find some of this stuff offensive, or in some cases just bad taste. A FSU trainer came up with the idea of Gatorade before the Florida trainers did (rumors are that the formula was stolen, though it wouldn't be the first time someone did something like that) but the FSU version was called Seminole Firewater. Given the Native American's proclivity for alcoholism and the term "firewater's" association with alcohol - well that would be in very poor taste. Look, had I not gone to Florida State and learned about the Seminole tribe from their association with the university, I don't think it's an overstatement to say that I probably would not have known anything of them at all. Because of my association with the university I've been able to educate (somewhat) my family and friends about the significance of the tribe. The other question I have is the "slippery slope" argument - where does it stop? Do we rename cities, towns, geographical areas, state names? What about military installments/equipment/weapons/vehicles? It'll never happen. The number of Indian names is almost immeasurable and it'd take far too much time and money to make the changes. The only names that probably should be changed are those that are being used for profit. As for the guy who said he wouldn't care if a team was called "The Crackers", A LOT of people would be offended if that happened and lawsuits would be filed left and right. We have THE hyprocrit society in today's world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Possibly "The Smallpox Bringers". Pale Face Harbingers of Death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Yeah but the team name is Sabres, Buffalo happens to be where they reside. Don't get me started on the Bills name. Shouldn't Buffalo Bill somehow be a part of the logo? It's not Buffalo buffaloes or Buffalo Bison. It's a homage to Buffalo Bill, so why no representation? Just stupid. Buffalo Bill is part of the Bills logo. You just can't see him - he's just outside the frame. Why do you think the Bison is running? He is getting shot at by Buffalo Bill. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Buffalo Bill is part of the Bills logo. You just can't see him - he's just outside the frame. Why do you think the Bison is running? He is getting shot at by Buffalo Bill. :rolleyes: Well played. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Buffalo Bill is part of the Bills logo. You just can't see him - he's just outside the frame. Why do you think the Bison is running? He is getting shot at by Buffalo Bill. :rolleyes: You got a little LQ in ya :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 You got a little LQ in ya :D I'm not sure how to take that? Compliment? Insult? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbochan Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 You got a little LQ in ya :D Damn, that's harsh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 I'm not sure how to take that? Compliment? Insult? ;) Depends on how far he's in ya... :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightrider Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 I find the Blackhawk logo offensive to my peoples culture and furthermore will never like any team associated with American Indians ever again. Good thing the Dutch, Irish, Danish, Italians, and Canadians don't feel the same way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdexchange Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 You got a little LQ in ya :D That would make a good caption to the photo in the other thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sloth Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Good thing the Dutch, Irish, Danish, Italians, and Canadians don't feel the same way... That is a good point. I wanted to say that yesterday, but I didn't think one person on this board would agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Good thing the Dutch... I've been pissed at paint for years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Depends on how far he's in ya... :ph34r: :lol: :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROC Sabres Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 I have a problem with the Carolina Hurricanes. The NHL should not condone the use of a destructive force of nature as a logo for a team. It shows great disregard for human life. :wallbash: Yes this is sarcasm. If Buffalo or any team in any league changed their name to the "whatever" Pollacks... Well then I have a new favorite team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 I have a problem with the Carolina Hurricanes. The NHL should not condone the use of a destructive force of nature as a logo for a team. It shows great disregard for human life. :wallbash: Yes this is sarcasm. If Buffalo or any team in any league changed their name to the "whatever" Pollacks... Well then I have a new favorite team. Good, because for a second there, I thought you were being serious. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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