nfreeman Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 My last point on this thread. For the one thousandth time, I have never said management was cheap. Talent was let go due to a multitude of errors and money has been wasted on others but find me one of my posts that refers to them as cheap. You do that, I will leave for good. http://forums.sabrespace.com/index.php...amp;#entry84746 Buh-bye!! Just kidding! Please stay! One-sided arguments are boring. :thumbsup: I don't want tom to go anywhere, but he should admit that Carp got him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Fan Posted June 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 I'm not a believer of "Quid Pro Quo" or One Hand Washes the Other. Fact is that they did mess up the Drury/Brier thing, and for that they deserve to be questioned by the people who pay into their business. I think its great that they got Butler, Gerbe, Kennedy, and Enroth under contract, and for that I give them all the props in the world. Its nice to see that we are actually signing our draft picks. (Of course, they kind-of have to this year since they will be supplying all the talent to our farm club) but lets not nit-pick. So...at the end of the day...I can applaud them for the great job they did with respect to these signings and live in the now, but it doesn't mean that I was wrong in my displeasure over they way they mishandled our potential Free Agents... and I'm not just talking about CD and DB. Lets not forget Grier, Mckee, Peca, Soupy, etc.. One step forward so far in the offseason. I tip my cap to them...Lets hope that its not two steps back with the Draft, Pommer, Miller, Trades, and signing other teams FA's. I agree about the fact that they deserve the criticism for the Briere and Drury debacle...my point was most of the other complaints since then seem to be blown out of proportion, and are not retracted with nearly the vigor if at all when the front office makes the right move. Retractions are rarely on the front page, but I think we would all agree that is . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 I guess our back and forth about why it took so long if they were getting the max deals was a moot point ... according to the Buffalo News, Kennedy got $635K per year (according to the Lansing State Journal, it breaks down to $550K in salary and $85K in bonus per season) and the max is over $800K, right? Enroth got 3 years/$1.9 million, also less than $700K per year ... again, well below the max deal ... Links: http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/story/360623.html http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/apps/pb.../GW03/806020339 EDIT: There is some discrepancy here ... the Lansing story also talks about games-played bonuses which wuold push the deal to the max ... and since he is unlikely to spend much time in Buffalo earning the NHL salary but NOT playing, it's pretty much the max if he plays in the NHL ... the fact that the News left this out makes me wonder if they have all the correct info on Enroth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 I guess our back and forth about why it took so long if they were getting the max deals was a moot point ... according to the Buffalo News, Kennedy got $635K per year (according to the Lansing State Journal, it breaks down to $550K in salary and $85K in bonus per season) and the max is over $800K, right? Enroth got 3 years/$1.9 million, also less than $700K per year ... again, well below the max deal ...Links: http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/story/360623.html http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/apps/pb.../GW03/806020339 EDIT: There is some discrepancy here ... the Lansing story also talks about games-played bonuses which wuold push the deal to the max ... and since he is unlikely to spend much time in Buffalo earning the NHL salary but NOT playing, it's pretty much the max if he plays in the NHL ... the fact that the News left this out makes me wonder if they have all the correct info on Enroth. The games played bonus is most likely in there to allow the signing bonus to be increased. A signing bonus can't be for more than 10% of the player's salary (i.e., it's capped at $85k), so his max bonus in each year would average out to $63.5k if his average salary is $635k. But for purposes of the CBA, games played bonuses are accounted for as being earned initially so with a rookie max salary including counting bonuses of $850k then his signing bonus can be upped to $85k. An extra $20k in the pocket of kid who is about to be making a little over $60k is a lot. It is something worth haggling over and would go a long way toward explaining why these negotiations didn't get done in a single day. I also would be a little surprised to see him attaining that games played bonus even if he is called up, so the Snooze appears to have had the jist of the story right, they just didn't provide all the nitty gritty details. Over all, I am pleased that these negotiations are done, but they are minor in the grand scheme of things. The key now is getting Pomiller signed LT and bringing in another 2nd line center and a defensive defenseman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sloth Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 I don't want tom to go anywhere, but he should admit that Carp got him. Way to go Carp! That was funny. Tom, stay on the board man. I like hearing everyone's opinion. This is the first time I checked the board this morning, but have you guys mentioned anything about long term contracts? Miller needs a 5 year deal and Pominville needs a 6, possibly 7, year deal. Buffalo should also bring in a couple of vets for 4 years. Vets probably want job security more than the younger players. Two defenders and a center sound nice? We really can't rely on both Sekera and Weber. I want Sekera to play full time, but Weber should be on an as need basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Way to go Carp! That was funny. Tom, stay on the board man. I like hearing everyone's opinion. This is the first time I checked the board this morning, but have you guys mentioned anything about long term contracts? Miller needs a 5 year deal and Pominville needs a 6, possibly 7, year deal. Buffalo should also bring in a couple of vets for 4 years. Vets probably want job security more than the younger players. Two defenders and a center sound nice? We really can't rely on both Sekera and Weber. I want Sekera to play full time, but Weber should be on an as need basis. Any "vets" in mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 As for your last question, I think Shrader willl confirm that it would be a shock if any of the signed prospects make the team, that Butler may the best of the lot and that the 13th pick would be a long shot to make the jump and the 26th pick would be even a longer one. If I had to pick one guy with the best shot I think I'd go with Kennedy. Butler's got a lot of talent ahead of him fighting for fewer spots. Gerbe is going to have a steep learning curve thanks to the fact that he's 3 feet tall. Kennedy's still a long shot too, but I'll have to pick him. I have no clue where Schutz would fall in this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayzor32 Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 Quick prospect question. Any chance one of these kids can make the jump right away? Who would be most likely? Not until 09-10 season..we will have a full AHL roster to fill out this season (not a 1/2 roster like last year) and we will need all the bodies we can get to play in Portland (or wherever the team winds up playing). I guess if Miller gets injured (God forbid), and whoever we bring in to replace Thibault gets hurt (Auld?), then maybe Enroth will get some minutes -- much like Biron did as a 19 year old...but as far as Gerbe or Kennedy are concerned, we have too many forwards right now and they will need time to adjust from NCAA to AHL (and NHL)...that said, I would not be shocked if Butler is a mid-season call-up when our defense gets depleted, as it does every season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 2, 2008 Report Share Posted June 2, 2008 http://forums.sabrespace.com/index.php...amp;#entry84746 Buh-bye!! Just kidding! Please stay! One-sided arguments are boring. :thumbsup: OUCH! That's gonna leave a mark! GO SABRES!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 You do that, I will leave for good. Damn, I think he actually left. :cry: Don't I feel like an a**hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneRobert Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 Damn, I think he actually left. :cry: Don't I feel like an a**hole. No need, man... he said it. He is welcome to come back, if he has the nerve to take a little good-natured ribbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 The front office deserves every insult, IMO. What you call a debacle is sheer lunacy, unless it's your plan to jettison players when they deserve a raise. Signing Enroth, Gerbe, and Kennedy are good moves but any team would sign their draft picks, ya know? I still worry about the "YouTube" scouting dept and we haven't heard much about Miller yet. Maybe the Sabres plan on getting Enroth on the fast track to replace Miller? Either way it seems to me the Sabres will forever be in rebuilding mode under this ownership. We may get good but as soon as a key player is up for renegotiation it will be "bye bye and bring in the rook." PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 The front office deserves every insult, IMO. What you call a debacle is sheer lunacy, unless it's your plan to jettison players when they deserve a raise. Signing Enroth, Gerbe, and Kennedy are good moves but any team would sign their draft picks, ya know? I still worry about the "YouTube" scouting dept and we haven't heard much about Miller yet. Maybe the Sabres plan on getting Enroth on the fast track to replace Miller? Either way it seems to me the Sabres will forever be in rebuilding mode under this ownership. We may get good but as soon as a key player is up for renegotiation it will be "bye bye and bring in the rook."PTR First bold: They are not allowed to negotiate a new deal with him until after July 1. I know they have screwed up but let's not rip them for not doing something they are not even allowed to do yet. Second bold: Roy, Hecht, Vanek ... a couple years ago they gave long-term deals to Connolly, Max, Kotalik, Lydman, Tallinder and actually even Miller. Not every "key" player has left. Rip them for keeping the wrong guys but at least get the facts right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted June 3, 2008 Report Share Posted June 3, 2008 as for t-web: as much as i've put him in my cross-hairs from time to time (i, like many, was convinced for a time that he was gleason), i have to agree that the board would be a lot less fun without him. t-web has a habit of staking out strong (even extreme) positions and therefore inevitably over-reaches at times -- but when you get down to the brass tax of any given issue, he's always proven himself to be a very knowledgable hockey fan. don't make us beg, webster. (as though we haven't already.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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