Amerks6 Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 The CBA had nothing to do with that discussion. Someone brought it up, yet it had no impact on what I was talking about. I was well aware of what he pointed out, and it was useless. Donner does not owe 10.8 million. Donner, DuRoss and Economides are responsible, not just Donner. And I doubt the bank gets all that money. I'm sure they'll come to some sort of settlement. Like I said, Donner will owe money, I just don't see the bank taking the Amerks and K-Hawks. That's great what Richards says. When they lose 48 home dates because they don't want to deal with Donner maybe then I'll believe him. The city has way too much to lose than to be stubborn like they are being. I understand they want to look after the tax payers, but Styres is in control of the team now, not Donner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 Like I said, I'm not going to rehash all this with you. You showed your ignorance of the NHL CBA's impact on supplying players, paying salaries, player recalls and waivers and other such issues in the last thread. Whether you choose to believe how much the NHL's CBA impacts parent-affiliate relationships is irrelevant. Either way I'm out. Maybe you can go back to trolling the D&C's site and condescendingly "correcting" everyone in the "story comments" sections, since no one here is buying what you're selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amerks6 Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 Hey keep thinking that. Get off your high horse, I'm just as aware what things in the CBA have an impact on AHL-NHL relationships. At that point, it had very little to do with the discussions that were going on in the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 Because if you're taking a beating, change the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 He'll get his new owner, his new lease and his single parent. All that and all he had to do in the process was disenfranchise his fan base, losing thousands of fans in the process. The Amerks may, and that's a big may, bounce back from this but it is going to take years for them to recover from this season's debacle. I personally want nothing to do with them at this point and know many others who share my opinion. Remember, I was an Amerks fans first... :bag: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amerks6 Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 All that and all he had to do in the process was disenfranchise his fan base, losing thousands of fans in the process. The Amerks may, and that's a big may, bounce back from this but it is going to take years for them to recover from this season's debacle. I personally want nothing to do with them at this point and know many others who share my opinion. Remember, I was an Amerks fans first... :bag: You're going way overboard here. Even with the perfect storm of problems this season, they still were very respectable attendance wise. You can be sure that if they have even somewhat of a competitive team next season, attendance will be back up to the top of the league. One good season is all it takes to win fans back. If they make a deep run next season, people won't even remember this years debacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 It appears that the following are our options for 08-09 AHL season: 1) Portland, Maine (IF the Ducks get out of their agreement and find a franchise closer to California) 2) Des Moines, Iowa (rumored to be getting Ducks affiliate if they leave Portland) 3) Hershey, PA (close enough to BUF to make sense if Caps don't extend agreement) 4) Hamilton, ON (would make a ton of sense IF Habs don't extend affiliation) I admit that I don't know much about what is going on with the Amerks, but for what I read here. Are these the only options and what if none of these things happen? Could the Sabre's actually end up with no minor league affiliate? (I should say AHL affiliate) and if so where would our prospects play? X. nice work with that Rose Petal Summer's Eve comment. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amerks6 Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 No the Sabres will have an affiliate no matter what. 99% chance it's in Portland, Maine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted May 7, 2008 Report Share Posted May 7, 2008 I admit that I don't know much about what is going on with the Amerks, but for what I read here. Are these the only options and what if none of these things happen? Could the Sabre's actually end up with no minor league affiliate? (I should say AHL affiliate) and if so where would our prospects play? X. nice work with that Rose Petal Summer's Eve comment. :lol: No, they would definitely have an AHL affiliate. The deal with Rochester, as near as anyone can tell, is pretty much 100% dead. The list that Rayzor posted is pretty good, and I think the only other option is they could purchase the dormant AHL franchise (formerly the Edmonton Road Runners) and put it wherever they want and make it the AHL's 30th team. Looks like Des Moines, Iowa will be in need of a team and parent club in the near future, since the Iowa Stars are moving to Cedar Point, Texas in 2010-11 to become the Texas Stars and be closer to the parent Dallas Stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 One good season is all it takes to win fans back. If they make a deep run next season, people won't even remember this years debacle. That's what I keep saying about the Sabres. ;) Any chance that the AHL would let the Sabres buy the defunct team and drop it in Rochester if the city were to refuse to deal with them? Probably not. I'd miss the Americans (been a fan since I was a kid), but I'd be willing to accept it if that meant that the Buffalo/Rochester relationship would be renewed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 ...they still were very respectable attendance wise. What's your definition of respectable? That building was 1/3 full on most nights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amerks6 Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 What's your definition of respectable? That building was 1/3 full on most nights. Most nights? No. On weeknights with a historically bad team, yes. But that's not so bad. Majority of teams in the AHL fare much worse. Every weekend game I attended the building was pretty full. Not like it has been in the past, but still decent for such a bad team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 Most nights? No. On weeknights with a historically bad team, yes. But that's not so bad. Majority of teams in the AHL fare much worse. Every weekend game I attended the building was pretty full. Not like it has been in the past, but still decent for such a bad team. Let me guess, you only attended on Fridays? That would explain your perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayzor32 Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 No, they would definitely have an AHL affiliate. The deal with Rochester, as near as anyone can tell, is pretty much 100% dead. The list that Rayzor posted is pretty good, and I think the only other option is they could purchase the dormant AHL franchise (formerly the Edmonton Road Runners) and put it wherever they want and make it the AHL's 30th team. Looks like Des Moines, Iowa will be in need of a team and parent club in the near future, since the Iowa Stars are moving to Cedar Point, Texas in 2010-11 to become the Texas Stars and be closer to the parent Dallas Stars. I was thinking about the former Edmonton franchise, but not really sure if a Philly model would work here -- sure it would be nice for Golisano to fill his building another 40 times a year, BUT I think it would dilute the fan base -- why pay for Sabres tix for a family of four when you can pay half for AHL tix at HSBC? Not really sure it would work for the Buffalo market... Kansas City has a gleaming new arena with no tenants, so that would be an option, but why have an affiliate that far away (with no direct commercial flights to BUF)? Rochester was really the perfect partner on paper, and unless we can get an affiliation with Hamilton, none of the other options are very good ones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFan526 Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 I don't really know, so I'm kind of throwing this question out there. Why couldn't the Sabres put an AHL franchise in Niagara Falls? It's about 30 miles away and they have an existing arena, albeit incredibly tiny. But, given that it's an AHL franchise, what is the minimum arena seating? If Niagara Falls built a new arena to house an AHL team, would it make sense for the Sabres to have their AHL affiliate in Niagara Falls? In my opinion, I think so and I think it'd be great since Rochester is over. Rochester was no doubt the best spot, but I think Niagara Falls could make a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 I don't really know, so I'm kind of throwing this question out there. Why couldn't the Sabres put an AHL franchise in Niagara Falls? It's about 30 miles away and they have an existing arena, albeit incredibly tiny. But, given that it's an AHL franchise, what is the minimum arena seating? If Niagara Falls built a new arena to house an AHL team, would it make sense for the Sabres to have their AHL affiliate in Niagara Falls? In my opinion, I think so and I think it'd be great since Rochester is over. Rochester was no doubt the best spot, but I think Niagara Falls could make a lot of sense. Where would the fans come from? The previous poster makes a good point about spending on the Sabres or NF, which would be more affordable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 Rochester was really the perfect partner on paper, and unless we can get an affiliation with Hamilton, none of the other options are very good ones... I don't think Portland or Hershey would be ideal and nowhere near as nice as the situation would be in Rochester or Hamilton, but it's not like they would be placing a team in the Southeast or Midwest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 I was thinking about the former Edmonton franchise, but not really sure if a Philly model would work here -- sure it would be nice for Golisano to fill his building another 40 times a year, BUT I think it would dilute the fan base -- why pay for Sabres tix for a family of four when you can pay half for AHL tix at HSBC? Not really sure it would work for the Buffalo market... Kansas City has a gleaming new arena with no tenants, so that would be an option, but why have an affiliate that far away (with no direct commercial flights to BUF)? Rochester was really the perfect partner on paper, and unless we can get an affiliation with Hamilton, none of the other options are very good ones... Oh I wasn't suggesting putting in Buffalo - just that they could conceivably put that franchise anywhere they want. Erie PA has been tossed around in the past and might not be a bad option. I don't really know, so I'm kind of throwing this question out there. Why couldn't the Sabres put an AHL franchise in Niagara Falls? It's about 30 miles away and they have an existing arena, albeit incredibly tiny. But, given that it's an AHL franchise, what is the minimum arena seating? If Niagara Falls built a new arena to house an AHL team, would it make sense for the Sabres to have their AHL affiliate in Niagara Falls? In my opinion, I think so and I think it'd be great since Rochester is over. Rochester was no doubt the best spot, but I think Niagara Falls could make a lot of sense. Are you talking Niagara Falls NY or Niagara Falls ONT? Ontario has the Niagara Falls Memorial Arena but that capacity is only 3,633, so they would definitely need a new arena. There's no suitable arena in Niagara Falls, NY, save the Dwyer Arena on NU's campus. But that holds only 1,600 and is in no way suitable for a pro team. Just looking quickly at the rest of the league, it appears that the minimum capacity is somewhere around 6,000 or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFan526 Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 Oh I wasn't suggesting putting in Buffalo - just that they could conceivably put that franchise anywhere they want. Erie PA has been tossed around in the past and might not be a bad option.Are you talking Niagara Falls NY or Niagara Falls ONT? Ontario has the Niagara Falls Memorial Arena but that capacity is only 3,633, so they would definitely need a new arena. There's no suitable arena in Niagara Falls, NY, save the Dwyer Arena on NU's campus. But that holds only 1,600 and is in no way suitable for a pro team. Just looking quickly at the rest of the league, it appears that the minimum capacity is somewhere around 6,000 or so. I was referring to Ontario. The distance from the Canada side to Buffalo is only about 30 miles if I'm not mistaken. But, yes, the arena in Niagara Falls is tiny. I'd imagine putting a team there might improve the tourism economy even more what with the Falls as well as the Casinos in the area. It'd be convenient for Buffalo, from a geographic perspective. Someone had asked about the fan base. You are probably right in that you are looking at pretty much the same fans as Sabres fans. And, if the AHL team and Sabres are both playing home games on the same night, you've pretty much lost most of your fans. But, from a geographic perspective, it seems like it would work out and it would be easy to shuttle players back and forth. It seems to work in Philly, so that's kind of my rationale for a team in Niagara Falls. I think the real winner if you can't have Rochester is probably the Hamilton Bulldogs, but Montreal would have to agree to get a new affiliate, and who's to say they want one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 I was referring to Ontario. The distance from the Canada side to Buffalo is only about 30 miles if I'm not mistaken. But, yes, the arena in Niagara Falls is tiny. I'd imagine putting a team there might improve the tourism economy even more what with the Falls as well as the Casinos in the area. It'd be convenient for Buffalo, from a geographic perspective. Someone had asked about the fan base. You are probably right in that you are looking at pretty much the same fans as Sabres fans. And, if the AHL team and Sabres are both playing home games on the same night, you've pretty much lost most of your fans. But, from a geographic perspective, it seems like it would work out and it would be easy to shuttle players back and forth. It seems to work in Philly, so that's kind of my rationale for a team in Niagara Falls. I think the real winner if you can't have Rochester is probably the Hamilton Bulldogs, but Montreal would have to agree to get a new affiliate, and who's to say they want one? I live just outside of Philly and the reason it works is basically money. There is so much here and a much larger population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 There aren't many cities that can handle both an AHL and NHL team in the same immediate area. NF, ONT might work because you'd be drawing more from Ontario than the US, so it shouldn't impact the Sabres' fan base nearly as much as an AHL team in Buffalo would. I do like the idea of Hamilton if the Habs don't renew their affiliation and I think Erie PA might work as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amerks6 Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 Let me guess, you only attended on Fridays? That would explain your perception. What perception? I agreed the building was empty, but only on Wednesday and Sunday games. But like I said, that is the case for virtually every AHL team. Just the way the league works, it's a weekend league. The Amerks weekend attendance was still pretty solid and better than most of the league, so the sky is not falling in Rochester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 I do like the idea of Hamilton if the Habs don't renew their affiliation and I think Erie PA might work as well. I don't know if Montreal dropping Hamilton is even remotely a possibility, but Portland would work out pretty well for them, distance-wise. But then again, the border crossing might be an issue there. I mentioned that Hamilton possibility in the Balsillie thread (before someone crapped all over it ;) ). If by some long shot this ended up happening, it really should kill anyone's fears of a sale and move to Hamilton. Buying a team and then moving it to the city where its minor league affiliate is located would never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 It should be noted that this list is compiled using figures provided by the club and that minor league teams typically report tickets distributed as opposed to actual people attending games but with no further editorial comment; http://www.arenadigest.com/ad_hockey/2006_...e_average.htmes EDIT: I scfrfewed something up bu the chart showed that Rochester was 8th out of 50 minor league hockey teams with an average somewhere around 7500. I will try to find the site again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stenbaro Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 Oh I wasn't suggesting putting in Buffalo - just that they could conceivably put that franchise anywhere they want. Erie PA has been tossed around in the past and might not be a bad option.Are you talking Niagara Falls NY or Niagara Falls ONT? Ontario has the Niagara Falls Memorial Arena but that capacity is only 3,633, so they would definitely need a new arena. There's no suitable arena in Niagara Falls, NY, save the Dwyer Arena on NU's campus. But that holds only 1,600 and is in no way suitable for a pro team. Just looking quickly at the rest of the league, it appears that the minimum capacity is somewhere around 6,000 or so. Build an arena next to the Casino and call them the Native Americans instead of the Rochester Americans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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