JP51

Well to be fair.. Cozens looked better in Ottawa for sure than Buffalo... Skinner did go to a cup final... but certainly didnt contribute... Mitts was surprising, he started the year top 10 in scoring and then crashed and burned... he seemed like he was progressing here and then boom...

I definitely think money may have come in to play here...

I have been raging for grit and size talent attitude combination... getting Rossi makes us smaller... as much as I would like to bite... I gotta go with I like the prospect of having people on this team that will engage people with purpose who knows if any one of us is right, time will tell... maybe we should have... but I think I at least like the acknowledgement that there needs to be some aggression in the line up.

I think your last point is big... how does this play in the locker room... if it serves to discourage and disgruntle players big mistake huge.... if it is addition by subtraction and players like the fact that we are getting some folks that will actually initiate contact and not hide under the bench and we get some grit well then it may be the right move... I think I said before, I think talent wise we lost... the only way we will is if the addition enhances the chemistry and attitude of the team and if the subtraction helps send that message. But I think the result will be seen in the locker room over time. To be continued...

I agree at this point this is a net loss on paper... the only way this helps us is if the infusion of players that are harder to play against and increased chemistry on the team changes the trend of the team... talentwise its a net loss currently with Doan being future upside to even that out or you believe Peterka was the problem and this was addition by subtraction... (Diggs, Roy etc....) it was not a hockey trade in which sent multiple players for the better player.. it was the opposite attempt to accumulate value in multiples likely again because most trades in which we get the better player will be nixed due to NMCs. It is our plight..

I would even say if Doan gives us 15g 25a plays both ends and makes us harder to play against and continues with his upside and Peterka goes 30 and 30 I am still fine. We must get better in the D zone... like now.

He is a player that has played 62 games in the NHL last 2 years... averaging about 13 minutes of ice time... he is not yet a full time NHLer playing over 1/3 of his games in the AHL last year... to me that is a developing NHL prospect. I do not think we have seen the overall NHL potential of him and however unlikely are not assured he will be a full time NHLer he has to make it and secure a spot.. (that said I see little chance of him not making it) . So I am not sure what is not to get except maybe our definition of prospect is different.. like if they play in the NHL for a certain number of games they are no longer a prospect in your definition... ok then change my term to what ever you call that level player... to me until I see a full season in the NHL full time I myself refer to that person as a prospect. The point is that we hope we do not have a fully developed player, that he will play in the NHL full time this season, and we hope his production and ice time will increase...

I would love that to but to be real Marner has the likelihood of considering us as Angelina Jolie has the likelihood of considering me no matter how much money is offered... LOL... we just dumped a future 40 goal scorer for a middling player and a prospect... because no real player will come here... likely the same will happen with Byram and we will have gotten appreciably worse as a team... why would Mariner to come to a current bottom feeder thats digging deeper... with a FO office and owner who are absolutely incompetent...

Does he not do predominantly virtual scouting as well?

I agree here.. if he is traded its for a price that is a lower type pick that someone wants to take a shot at... I also think there is a solid shot we would have to eat some salary... I suspect if we agreed to eat salary the pic may be a little better... but I do think he may have a modest value.

I agree especially with your last commentary... he has burned civilization as we know it to the ground as we know it... he has lied, failed and demonstrated incompetence at a level that needs to be seen to be believed... he has responded to it with silence, then smug arrogance and degradation of the city and fans... there is no way back for him, the earth is scorched... so any "words" that come out of his mouth with regards to the future I am certain will be met with abject disdain and ridicule unless there is bona fide success to back them up (we know the likelihood of that) ... the real question is how does Pegula not see the depths in which this joke has been driven into the ground.. or does he and simply doesn't care....

Indeed

I agree, we all know its horrific and the team is unwatchable too many nights... but do we really understand the extent of the damage done that is preventing us from turning this around... I fear that is way worse than the team performance itself...

I think this is fair... it may not be that they have more points... etc... but If we trade a top 3 forward with upside for 1/2 pairing Dman great... a 2/3 pairing Dman then I think you over all decrease your level of talent and hurt the team more than help... I do agree with you on the needs part.. So if we are saying we are going to trade away a top 3 offensive player scoring 70pts for one that scores 50 - 55 and plays both ends and begins to change the complexion and the culture of the team... I would say we got the best player in the trade for us... I am with you there... Its when you trade the 70 pt guy with upside for an oft injured player that scores 55pts doesnt play in both ends of the rink and get a 2nd rounder in 2026 to make up for it I have the issues.

Another not to defend Adams.. but I also think that he probably is actively trying to acquire a player in a Hockey trade to make the team better... I suspect he is encountering situations where NMCs are getting in the way... and those vet players that would help the team are limited because they just wont come here... or the younger vet players are at the end of their contracts and Adams is not convinced he can re-sign them... thus they become rentals... I am fine trading anyone as long as we get the best player in the trade... I think that is likely proving to be difficult... So, the only way Adams gets a trade of equal value is if he gets the lesser player in the trade and picks or prospects... I don't think that this strategy that we have been employing for years now is an accident... I think it is a result... a result of the brand being so badly damaged you simply cannot get talent to come here unless it is picks or prospects... essentially Adams and Pegula's destruction of any reputation and competence is their own personal jail cell to improvement... and Pegula's refusal to acknowledge the need to repair same has thrown away the key... until this changes... nothing changes... I suspect their will be trades... I suspect that we will be giving up the best player in the trade and having the compensation equalized with pics and prospects... or the player we are getting has availability issues, or is hurt etc... which is the same thing we have been seeing year after year because of the above... we will lose our sh*t and watch the player go on to great success with another team and remember when he played for us... Sorry to be so down... but I am just not thinking that needle moving help is on the way...

I actually did need to explain I was moderately shocked myself, but in defense this poster is a pretty literal one... picking up sarcasm was not a specialty... lol c'est la vie bottom line is that it has gotten so bad that people actually dont know which way is up any more... it all falls in a category of "You cant make this sh%t up" LOL

Hit the nail on the head... but you knew that as soon as 7-6-13 gave you the old eye roll LOL ... validation for sure lol 😆

IT is exactly this... our own FO and Owner have destroyed the brand thru their incompetence and short sighteness followed by the stubborn refusal of same to realize that on their best day if they tried really hard they may rise to a level just below moronic... The only saving of this franchise is the establishment of a major FO player one who is respected and has a vision of what is required to compete in todays NHL that wrests control from the bumbling keystone cop which is our owner... Until then you will not be able to realistically add players to this team that can change its course... but more importantly, you have already seen the cracks internally amongst the players... they have moved out talent that could help us win and their ultimate success is certainly see by the players... You dont think Reinhart or Eichel or Montour or whomever isnt in the ears of some of these players saying Dude.. you gotta get out of there... Tage Thomspson is certainly hearing the rumblings... By all accounts this will be 15 years with out the playoffs and if by a miracle they make it what is sure to be a 4-0 or 4-1 merciless bludgeoning for a team ill prepared physically to actually PLAY in the playoffs... how long before those players whom we have actually developed to be good players are demanding trades... I think it starts this year... I hear the trade your prospects for players to help this team call... I agree 100% but throw in the fact you will probably not get those players to come here and you will be left trading high picks for Malenstyn's I cannot believe there is help on the way... further as long as Adams is in charge of assets and return every move he makes is going to set us back farther.... I am literally in do nothing mode with our assets with the exception of purge those like Muel that are eating your capitol and watching half the season from the press box and the other half they are on the ice ... you wish they were in the press box ... then pray you get a competent FO person to assess what we have and lay forth a plan... If Adams is in charge of the recovery plan... we are screwed.

Exactly, this is one of that main reasons Adams needs to go... He and Pegula have destroyed the brand... you won't be able to compete in this league for players until you repair the brand... The only way I see to do this is hire real NHL FO talent with a vision and begin the long process... there are deep consequences for 14 going on 15 years of absolute incompetence and ignominy...

He is awake and plotting how he can reduce payroll and give away players for below market value... and get Lafferty, Malenstyn, Aube - Kubel part 2 and an injured Norris type player to bolster the losing.

Does winning matter for TP... I would say this... you almost have to make it your mission to be out of the playoffs for this long... like literally you have to focus hard on being incompetent... now I am not saying that he is trying to lose... but geez... I am running out of explanations other than legitimately he is clueless, fancies himself as the great Hockey oracle and only hires people who sycophant that notion... and keep who he likes... so I think he would like to win to prove that he is the great white knight... but in the end... being in control of his toy and making money are way more important... because lets not fool ourselves... once he got the Bills, they became his business per se... and Hockey was his toy hobby... or at least in my opinion...

That is not something to me you can ever apologize for and have it mean anything other than you know you that you are a coward and wish you were not... to me its instinct... you cant train instinct... you can have people in the future go grab someone... thats nice... but if you are on the other team... knowing that there is serious intention and instinct not just preliminary obligation when something like that happens makes a difference... I can see it playing Mites or Bantams learning this but by the time you are in the NHL you should not need to be shamed into standing up for your family... it moves to the type of player and character that the incompetents that run this team target... Watching Brad Marchand go after whoever was infront of him no matter how big speaks volumes and shows deep contrast of who and how this team is made up... It is the antithesis of what I want in a team... and as far as Buffalo and its community the antithesis of who we are... or at least how I see us as a community... family, friends first, we are in this together.. times get rough but we help out... things get gritty but we stand up... we are not privileged as a community, we don't possess as a community the type of wealth that allows for routine luxury.... its one of the reasons I believe that the community has such a disdain for this team... (outside of the perennial losing and abject incompetence) but look the Ted Nolan teams lost too... but they stood up... I would say we liked those teams much better than this... at least i did... (No dont bring back TN LOL) anyways.... Lucic didnt break the Sabres... the vision of the GMs and the type of players we need broke the Sabres... start drafting some a**holes that are tough and can play... what Lucic did means nothing... continue trading or releasing away toughness (Foligno, Kassian, Kane, Zadorov, O'Reilly, Risto, Montour, Carrier, DesLauriers, Kulikov, Stewart etc...) and rewarding weak sloth and laziness.. you get what you always got... and no I am not looking to debate the merit of these trades, if they are needed etc.. just looking to point out what happens to players that have a bit of an edge on this team....

Bottom line... eventually without leadership change all players on this team will want to leave this cesspool of dysfunctional incompetance... and those that dont want to leave it... I probably dont want on any hockey team I am vested in... or at minimum question their rationale... like I am 38 from here won 5 cups and my elderly mother lives here and they are over paying me.... ok, I can get that... but other than that if you are not clamoring to leave because your desire to win and not be looked at as a member of the Mickey Mouse club of failure and laziness then I really dont want you... the rebellion within to me is the only thing that will precipitate change from above... When 2 or 3 core players bolt or request trades and the others are buzzing... maybe then TP will go... Gee! we might have a small issue here...

The key is competent FO and ownership... if we had that we likely dont even have some of those players... but suffice it to say if we had that we would be a whole lot better than 14 years out of the playoffs where we have had 2 1st over all picks and 2 2nd overall picks... and drafted in the top 10 pretty much every year for 14 years... We would be able to attract free agents, wouldnt be burdened by stupid contracts etc ....

The only real hope I have is that God comes to TP in a revelation and says fire Adams.. I mean it could happen right LOL... anyways, I am in the until we have adult professional hockey people running the operations, team assembly and use of assets I just dont see it getting better... but, thats just me...