LTS

I say this about faceoffs mattering. Statistically, air travel is the safest form of travel. However, if everyone doesn't do their job right then the outcome of the statistically improbably occurrence of a crash is very bad. Same with a faceoff. Generally, if everyone does their job, it doesn't matter.. but when someone doesn't... boom. Now... what about trades?

I'd have to dig out the bottles I've had a few beers from up there. Had Lagunitas Sucks last night after my hockey game... very nice.

Let's be honest... trading away pieces for long term improvement is not at all the same as tanking is it? If DR can move players at the deadline, like Pominville, Stafford, and more then I am all for it. If that means they don't win this year that's fine. That's not tanking, that's presumably getting solid future prospects for the future. Perhaps it's a fine line.

I understand your viewpoint. I won't agree, but I understand it. The underlying problem is a lack of faith in the people running the show, really the GM. If you lack faith in the owner you should probably just quit being a fan because he's probably not going anywhere. I don't know if Regier can cut it as a GM. I have to give him credit for putting together a competitive team at times. I've seen two offseasons and 1 trade deadline where it appears he's done a good job. I don't think anyone predicted the lack of heart this Sabres team has now would be so bad. I don't think anyone predicted that Pominville would quickly become one of the faces of that lack of effort. Perhaps some moves confounded us, take Stafford for example since he's another favorite whipping boy. I think Stafford is a capable player. I believe that he's soured on Buffalo and the situation and that put elsewhere he will be back to the standout season he had a few years ago. There was optimism ending last year that Stafford had found his way. It's clear that didn't pan out but now it's up to the GM to move him. It's a matter of what he can get for him. Given his ability to flip players and our willingness, as fans, to let him go for nothing I'm thinking DR has a very low bar to get over for our approval. Too many moving parts to try and blame it on any one thing. One bad person in the locker room, or a coach that turns the team off and it can lead to a divided locker room and a team that is not focused. You can't always control that but I think the Sabres are moving in the right direction by bringing in a guy like Ott who seems to have taken over control of the locker room. I just don't feel fooled.. I suppose I never would based on the simple fact that it's sports so I don't get too crazy over it. But I think there is evidence to support the building of the team in the right direction. I'm really looking forward to this trade deadline to see what happens. If the Sabres tank the trade deadline then I'll probably change my stance on things a bit.

Yea, which means he's capable when surrounded by talent but not capable of carrying a team. That's better than not being capable regardless of the talent around you.

I'm not equating failure to failure. I'm stating that having top picks does not beget success as some would propose. I think it's absolutely impossible to provide statistical analysis on that. My goal was simply to say that it's impossible to tell. The Sabres have had talent as well to build a team around but either through the incompetence of the GM, the owner, or something else it never happened. We've already begun questioning ownership here. You've brought up Yzerman, Charles Wang. If we have incompetent leadership the plan falls apart right? So, we need a new GM at a minimum. Now strangely enough I recall seeing a lot of people in the "Keep 5" thread throwing Hodgson's name in there. I'm pretty sure the incomptent GM was the guy who acquired Hodgson. Is he "top talent" I don't know, but he seems to be a pretty strong player that might do even better if those other holes were filled. Which brings me to Colorado... who has Stastny, Duchesne, and Landeskog, O'Reilly, McGinn, Parenteau, Erik Johnson (top 5 pick), and they seem to still be sucking as well. If the team is tanking why would Regier get fired? I presume it's because they are losing but wouldn't it be completely illogical to judge the man on the job he's doing if you have your team tanking? Of course I don't think what's trying to be said is that they lose on purpose.. so that brings up the next question. Since they aren't losing on purpose, people must want them to lose based upon their lack of ability against the league. If that is the case, how is that not rooting against the team? After all, the only logical statement is that you hope, the team as it is comprised today, is not good enough to make the playoffs. In fact, it's worse than that. It's not that they don't make the playoffs it's that they are so bad they get a top 3 pick. So, you are hoping that every other team they play is better so that the Sabres lose. You want them to lose. So, if that's the case, when they are suddenly good, and you are rooting for the exact opposite scenario, you know, the other team to lose. Can I then say you are rooting for that team? Seems a bit hinky to me. I see where people try and justify this as some long term plan. It's okay to root for them to lose now so they can be successful later by getting a top pick this year. Except they might not get better next year because we've already seen comments that a top pick doesn't turn the team around overnight like the NFL. Okay, so next year they aren't much better, they finish 10th in the standings. The year after that they finish 9th. Okay, so now we are questioning if the top pick from this year is going to help the team. We are wondering what the next trade will be to get that team over the hump. Then we find out the guy was a bust, start it over. Kind of feels like the past 16 years doesn't it? So, in some sick twisted way are people really rooting for the status quo? Except you know for that one top 3 pick that might pan out or not. It just doesn't work for me. It's completely illogical to hope that your team sucks. It's the antithesis of being a fan. I hope the Flyers suck and for me to sit there and in the same sentence say that I hope the Sabres suck.. well I just can't do it.

2005 - Crosby, Ryan, Jack Johnson, Benoit Pouliot, Carey Price (Crosby clearly, Ryan, certainly, Johnson and Pouliot.. not so much, Price.. maybe) 2006 - Erik Johnson, Jordan Staal, Jonathan Toews, Nicklas Backstrom, Phil Kessel 2007 - Patrick Kane, James van Riemsdyk, Kyle Turris, Thomas Hickey, Karl Alzner (Sam Gagner, 6th) 2008 - Stamkos, Doughty, Bogosian, Pietrangelo, Luke Schenn Of those 20 players, 9 of them are players I would consider top talent (Crosby, Ryan, Staal, Toews, Backstrom, Kane, Stamkos, Doughty, Bogosian) Of those 20 players quite a few have been flipped to other teams (E. Johnson, J, Johnson, Staal, Kessel, Pouliot, JVR, Turris, Schenn) Now, we could potentially discount Kane/Toews because I would consider that like Malkin,Crosby. I just look over those top 5 picks and I can't say that it really helps. Ryan is a legit star but he appears to be on the outside looking in in Anaheim. If you want me to say that picking in the Top 5 improves your chances of landing top talent I will. I agree with that. But I just can't get behind wanting a team to lose to get there. Most of the teams that succeeded did so because they had multiple top picks. So, are we willing to sit here as fans and want the top pick this year and next year? Can we sit through another season of sucking? I think we want to say yes. I think we want to say, if there's a plan then I am behind it. But I think that when January of 2014 rolls around we'll be desperate for a team that shows something. I think this team can improve without having to get the top picks.

The Sabres had a lot of injuries last year. I remember what we kept saying about that point.... The Panthers improved when they obtained Campbell, Kopecky, Versteeg, Fleischmann. Still their top 5 in scoring right now are a -8, -7, -12, -18 (Campbell), and -5... that's scary.

Perhaps they should have tried harder to get him last year instead of Kassian. What do we have to send them all the character tough guys? It's a simple truth.. if the Sabres traded Ott they would lose Weber, they would lose their backbone, and they would, most importantly, lose every single fan they have. Ott IS the face of the Sabres now.

Here's my problem for anyone who wants to get a top pick... there's no guarantees you are going to get better, next year, the following year, or 4 years later. I just can't get behind the idea of going for a #1 pick because of that. If you knew, absolutely knew, that the top pick was going to be an all-time great then sure, I might be behind it. I'm looking at drafts from 2008-2012... Oilers - Top Pick Last 3 Years - currently suck Tampa - Top Pick in 08, 2nd pick in 09 - just fired their coach, sucking Islanders - 1st in 09, 5th in 10, 5th in 11, 4th in 12 - not looking too good (less points than Buffalo right now) Panthers - 3rd in 10, 3rd in 11 - sucking Jackets - 4th in 10, 2nd in 12 - sucking Avalanche - 3rd in 09, 2nd in 11 - sucking There are teams who have managed to sneak into a top 5 pick over the past 5 years (Blues, Bruins, Devils, Canadiens) but they've had other pieces that were in place to turn it around quickly. If the Sabres are that bad then what is a Top 5 pick going to do for them? It's not a guarantee of improvement. For those teams that I listed as sucking, if they weren't in the top 5 they were usually 6 or 7 or so. They've had top picks and nothing comes from it. This is why I cannot get behind the idea. I understand the concept, but unless you are Pittsburgh who gets Fleury, Crosby, Staal, and Malkin over a few drafts you are most likely going to suck. A team would have to flip some talent in order to improve greatly. I keep waiting for Edmonton to do it. Three #1 picks on the roster and some other higher picks and they are getting nowhere...

The next coach has fallen. Sounds like perhaps they'll be looking to move people too given their lack of success. Maybe not, they are a better team on paper I believe. Steve Yzerman made the announcement early Sunday morning. "Guy has poured his heart and soul into the Lightning organization for these past three years and we appreciate all the work he has done," Yzerman said in a statement. "But ultimately I am not satisfied with the direction we are heading and I believe making a change today is in the best interest of our franchise.

Indeed. It's pretty good. The Scotch menu is pretty serious as well. Ahh that would do it. We had a great time last night. The beer selection was not the best but they'll always have their OT20 DIPA on tap and that beer is heavenly... the $5.25/pint just makes it better. It's an exceptional beer in my opinion. Would I call it my favorite? I don't think so, but from a technical perspective it's done right. Not a huge Pliny fan. It's one of those beers that I think is overrated. It's pretty thin lacking the body I prefer in a beer. Union Jack.. that's another story. :)

I'll be sitting at The Old Toad tonight drinking plenty of good beer while the Sabres are playing. Of course there are no TV's there.. so I won't see the game.

Does anyone really think that the trade value for Stafford is going to change whether he is playing tonight or not? Teams have a few years of his work to see what they are getting. There isn't a single player on this team that can be "showcased". Stafford got to shoot in the shootout in front of all the scouts last game. My guess is that everything people needed to see, they've seen. Scratching him would most likely be to protect against injury and to give him a chance to spectate (a well deserved chance). Go Sabres. I won't be seeing this one as I am going out tonight. Too bad really... a hockey game in Montreal on Saturday night? That's epic, no matter what the Sabres do.

Okay.. I'm just playing this over and over again now. Truly outstanding work.

Hodgson Weber Ott Foligno Ehrhoff Same names pop up a lot, don't they?

I'd get mad at the Leafs fans.. but really they are just market opportunists. I'd get mad at the Sabres fans for selling the tickets to the Leafs fans but really they are just market opportunists. So.. I'm just going to get mad. I despise the fact that a home game has so many opposing fans in the rink. Of course that's how they feel about us in Carolina right? Oh well.. beat da Maple Leaf, eh?

That and the D who COULD skate the puck are choosing to dump the puck to the NON-MOVING winger who is 4 feet away. That's just insane.

There's no real hockey reason. The simple problem with Stafford is that while growing up people told him to the kind of guy that is always moving forward. So, really it's not his fault. By the way.. this is a Sabres problem. One of the things that drives me nuts about "the systems" that are being played. A winger who is standing still on the half wall is an easy target for even the slowest of forecheckers.

The great thing about being a pessimist is that you are either right or pleasantly surprised. I understand your point of view. I just have more faith, strange too, because I don't go to church. I agree with you 100%. At this point in time I think anyone from Buffalo would feel so much better about themselves if any sports team could win a Championship. I'm actually frightened what might happen should it occur. Buffalo may cease to be what we know it is and become something we all despise. It could be horrible.. everyone walking around drinking cosmo's and eating finger sandwiches. Scary. Joking aside of course, I do think that final season standings don't tell it all. The truth about the Sabres is out there. It can be encapsulated in many factors. We are all also influenced by the shades of truth we receive as well. Take the situation with Kaleta and Miller yesterday. If you heard all the comments including the question that was asked you might come up with different viewpoints. The truth is in the words Kaleta spoke. Miller was asked a question that incorrectly stated what Kaleta had said and he responded to it. How many ways to interpret that? A) Miller is pissed off because he just lost.. again and was just lashing out in anger. B) Miller actually has a problem with this team anyway and his willingness to sound off at that time is indicative of the underlying problem. C) Miller does not like Kaleta much. D) Miller heard what Kaleta had said earlier and knew the question was asked incorrectly but decided to answer it anyway to try and cause problems encouraging his trade as a locker room cancer. Any number of things there could be true.. Oh well.. another game tomorrow. The good news is that I still don't act like i do when watching/listening to the Bills play. I actually don't even watch them much anymore but it really got the point where I would laugh when they screwed up and then gain enjoyment from the fact that I would be entertained by how many people would call WGR or talk about it at work as though they actually still believed the team was relevant or capable of anything good. If that happens to me with the Sabres then I am in trouble.

Deal. :)

Indeed. So he gets the playoffs in the Q and then heads to Rochester for some playoffs there? I can live with that. I'm not sure how those two leagues line up, I'll be honest. But let's say that happens. He gets some significant playing time after seeing the NHL level of play. I'm thinking that might be a good thing.

I understand the point. Look, I walk around now and say the Sabres suck. Every day I say it. They are terrible. It is the natural tendency of human beings to focus on the short-term/recent past more than the bigger picture. It often leads to decision making, attitudes, etc. that while perfectly viable in the "now" are not necessarily in the best interests of the long term goal. I want the Sabres to be like Detroit or Pittsburgh. I'd accept San Jose even I suppose. I'm not sure there's a debate about whether it could be worse. I think we know it could be worse. We could not have a team to complain about. We could be in Florida.. sure the sunshine might make us happier but a failing hockey team would still depress us and the constant talk about them leaving the market wouldn't help at all. We don't have that, at least. I want it to be better too, I'm just not in total despair I guess. As I said in other threads, I'm fairly confident a house cleaning is coming right through to DR. I believe the team, even with Rolston, still exhibits certain levels of style that are not working in the NHL. I think Pegula left it alone just long enough to see what he had.

Thought I would post a slightly different thread with some observations. Given that every thread basically disintegrates into a they suck/they don't suck that bad debate I thought I would try a thread where we could encompass it all. I pulled together the final conference standings since the 06-07 season. I averaged those finishing positions out and ranked the teams. I also then included today's standings as the finishing position for this season and did the same thing. Finally, I looked at where each team is currently sitting and compared it to their average finishing position for a difference. While there are not many surprises in doing this I think it provides a little bit if perspective on the Sabres. The Maple Leafs have not made the playoffs in that entire time. The Avalanche have Stastny, Duchesne, Landeskog, O'Reilly, and more and they are perpetual bottom dwellers. The Islanders are the model of ineptitude. The Oilers who have had near #1 picks for 4 years straight continue to stay at the bottom. How many of their fans are saying "Wait until next year when our prospects pan out?" San Jose, the second best team over that time has not even made a Stanley Cup final. There are really only a handful of teams that have succeeded over that time span. Some have had nice breaks like Pittsburgh getting Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Staal, Letang, and more. Sure they've made some good moves too but getting top picks at the right time matters (right Edmonton?) San Jose has made great moves and had nothing to show for it. Would you want to be Washington right now? They finished in the top 3 in the conference 4 times in this span and now the wheels have fallen off that team. Tampa Bay, a team with Stamkos, Lecavalier, St. Louis, and more have not succeeded. Would you rather have their roster? You might. When I look at the breakdown below there are a few teams that are clearly doing it right (Detroit, New Jersey, Vancouver, Boston). Buffalo has struggled lately and we are all getting tired of it but over the past 6 seasons DR is squarely responsible for the creation of this team and he has them in the upper half of average finishing position. It's good to be bothered by the current state of the team to be certain but I guess rather than get all worked up over how bad they are today just remember it could be a lot worse. Many of us are from Buffalo. We lived through the Bills losing 4 straight championship games. It was awful. I couldn't stand being a San Jose fan. All the promise in the world and nothing to show for it. I couldn't stand being an Islanders, Avalanche, Oilers, Leafs fan... that has to be a horrible feeling. Knowing you have talent and aren't succeeding, etc. You can look around and get jealous of another team's roster but then you look at where they are and you wonder.. well.. maybe not. Philadelphia, for all its success has averaged right along with the Sabres. They are floundering this season, just like Buffalo but I think we'd all say they are a better team. Unfortunately the numbers say otherwise. If Buffalo, had made the Finals in 2006-2007 they would have been right on par with the Flyers. Does it mean much? I don't know. I think we all take away from this team what we want. Of course I want this team to be better but I just can't get myself to the point where I think all is lost and that no one on the team knows what they are doing. The breakdown is below. From 06-07 through 11-12 season (team - average finishing position / bolded are teams in Stanley Cup Final): Detroit - 2.83 San Jose - 3 Vancouver - 3.67 Pittsburgh - 3.83 New Jersey / Washington - 4.67 Boston - 5.5 Rangers - 6 Predators - 6.33 Buffalo / Philadelphia - 6.67 Anaheim - 7 Chicago - 7.17 Montreal / Ottawa - 8 Calgary - 8.17 St. Louis - 8.67 Phoenix - 8.83 Dallas - 9 Minnesota - 9.33 Carolina - 9.43 Colorado / Winnipeg / Tampa - 10.5 Florida / Los Angeles - 10.67 Toronto - 11.83 Columbus - 12.17 Edmonton - 12.67 Islanders - 12.83 Average Finishing Position of Teams in Each Division: Atlantic - 6.94 Central - 7.26 Pacific - 7.66 Northeast - 7.69 Northwest - 9.09 Southeast - 9.37

I think you are incorrect. I think there are plenty of teams who have cap space now and next year who might be interested in a guy like Stafford. I would look at St. Louis who might consider him an upgrade over Andy McDonald is who a UFA next season. St. Louis could move him, clear $4.7m and bring in Stafford who provides a boost in offense and with St. Louis being a sound defensive team his +/- is less of a concern. I think the teams are out there who could use him. Miller we shall see. He has a NTC but it leaves 21 teams open for the Sabres to potentially partner with.