nfreeman

Ok then. Game on!

FWIW, I heard Chuck Klosterman, whose opinions I generally respect, raving about the upcoming OJ miniseries on TNT.

Let's chill out a bit in here, please.

Let the record reflect that January 9, 2016 was the day the Sabres' relentless suckitude finally broke the panache of our esteemed Canadian colleague. Yes, and I would add Ennis.

For the record, I object to this Euro-soccer-team weird plural usage.

It's not nothing, but I don't think it moves the needle enough to get STL to make the trade. I think for STL to unload Shattenkirk for money reasons, they're going to want a promising young defenseman on an ELC -- like, say, McCabe.

But STL isn't saving much $$ by getting Bogo in return, innit?

I was at that game. If one believed in karma and other supernatural phenomena, one could easily conclude that Ralph ordering that Johnson start that game over Flutie was an unforgivable sin that we are still paying the price for.

I agree that there is little ground for any Sabres fan to be exulting about "winning" this trade at this point. However, the eye test clearly indicates that Kane is very often a beast on the ice. He plays a hard game, pushes the action, hits, stands up for his teammates and impacts the game much more than Stafford does -- and this is borne out by the fancystats. I'm reasonably confident that he will keep doing so and his scoring numbers will come. As for Myers and Bogo -- I think it's important to remember that Bogo's injury caused him to miss camp and the first month or so of the season, with a new defense partner, a bunch of new teammates, new goalies, a new coaching staff, etc. We can't really evaluate him after 20-odd games. And while Myers' stats certainly are better than Bogo's, the allure of Myers is that he might turn into a franchise defenseman, or at least a real difference-maker. That hasn't happened. Bottom line, IMHO, is that it's still far too soon to judge the trade -- so IMHO your buyer's remorse is premature albeit not from outer space.

I would be amazed if DDB were fired at the end of this year, regardless of where the Sabres finish. If they are DFL or close to it at the end of next year? It might be time to get rid of him and GMTM.

FWIW, I kinda agree with you on Lemieux -- on paper he looks like a good prospect. I expect you agree, though, that he's still just a prospect and could easily not make it in the show? However, on the bolded, I go back to my cross-examination of you on this point yesterday: are you saying that if you could go back in time and undo the trade, you would do so?

Plenty of us were not at all happy with the plan.

On paper/screen, yes. But sometimes guys can really have poop for brains and/or bad attitudes, and their talent doesn't outweigh the baggage. I have no idea whether this is the case with Johansen, but it might be.

Totally agree. No thanks. Me too. Until the Panthers debacle, I really liked the Zemgus-Eichel combo. Good post.

Well, I wouldn't say a big developmental step is what we'd be looking for from Kane -- the question with him is whether he'll be a consistent 25-35 goal guy, or backslide to a 16-20 goal guy. With Bogo and Myers, though, big steps are still possible. Defensemen generally take longer to learn the game. For example, Soupy was still getting healthy-scratched at age 24 and didn't really turn into a high-level player until he was 26. Fair point on Stafford -- but at the end of the day, he's JAG anyway. I think Lemieux was probably a more valuable chip than Armia and wasn't a throw-in. Armia probably wasn't quite a throw-in either, but I would doubt that he was an important piece from Chevy's perspective. Yes, although I would describe it as a dud in terms of unmet hopes, rather than a dud in terms of the Sabres getting burned by overpaying. The Sabres also weren't going to get much for Stafford in any case. He was JAG as I mentioned above, and there wasn't much of a bidding frenzy at the deadline last year -- e.g. Vanek, a much more valuable commodity, only returned a 2nd-rounder and an average prospect in trade.

I'll disagree on this. I don't think the story has been fully written yet on any of them. In particular, I think any of the 3 could end up distinguishing himself as being clearly the best player in the trade.

I agree with all of this, and I'm not trying to be argumentative (although I may be kidding myself there), but if you still think (i.e. you said "I'll likely always think...") that the Sabres gave up too much, doesn't that necessarily mean that you think one of the 2 possibilities I posted? No big deal either way, of course.

I'm disappointed in this losing streak too, and I'm deeply concerned, as I've said many times before, that the tank will end up making the team worse, not better, in the long run, by ingraining a culture of losing. However, before we break out the tar and feathers for DDB, we should consider the following: The eye test clearly indicates that the Sabres are a zillion times more competitive than they have been for the prior 2 seasons. The fancystats bear this out. ROR and Eichel are young, sure-fire building blocks, with Reinhart and Risto either at the same level or just below. The Sabres haven't had their #1 goalie all year. We all knew before the season started that the defensemen were questionable. 2 of their top 4 forwards and 1 of their top 3 defensemen have missed significant time with injuries. They are integrating a ton of new pieces, including 4 of their top forwards and a new coaching staff. A number of their important players are very young -- young enough that a franchise like Detroit would still have some or most of them in the AHL. Some of the vets they were counting on for both leadership and production (Moulson, Gionta, Bogo, Ennis) have fallen off the table. Contrast that with, say, what Florida is getting from Jagr, Willie Mitchell and Soupy -- and the risks of giving big contracts to older players become a bit more apparent. My bottom line: I will be as disappointed as anyone if they end up DFL or close to it, and I will re-assess my expected time frame to get to contender status. But we're not even half a season into the putative renaissance. It's far too soon to come to any conclusions.

Absolutely, but the sample size is still pretty small. Troof.

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. The fans, savagely and cruelly burned too many times already, aren't going to buy in emotionally until they believe that the payoff is coming in return.

Are you saying you wouldn't have made the trade if the price the Sabres paid was the price the Jets were demanding? Or are you saying that you think the Jets would've taken less in exchange? If it's the former, I disagree, but I think your view is certainly reasonable. If it's the latter, I disagree and generally object to this sentiment (which many here have expressed from time to time, about this and other trades). No one here has any idea what the Jets would've taken, and many if not most here consistently overvalue the Sabres' assets in terms of what they would bring back in trade. The Roy-for-Malkin proposals haunt me to this day. All we know is what the Jets did accept, and it's quite likely that if GMTM had offered less, the Jets would've shopped around for a better deal and perhaps found it.

Definitely. Me too.

There are a lot of pants being removed far too early here. Let's remember that Drury was money in all situations, including the playoffs, and played the biggest role in muscling a terrible team into mature contender status. ROR reminds me of Drury like no other Sabre has since Black Sunday, but ROR hasn't yet come close to delivering what Drury delivered. And, speaking of money, let's also remember that Briere retired as #3 in post-lockout NHL playoff scoring. Until you've done it, you haven't done it.

Well, Jackie boy and ROR have a loooooooonnnnngg way to go before they can match Briere and Drury, and if Reino is ever mentioned in the same sentence as Roy again on this board, someone's going into the SabreSpace dungeon.

There are clearly some folks with axes to grind at OBD. Did anyone hear White and Capaccio discuss this? In particular, I'm wondering whether they disagree that the one-year ultimatum was given -- or are they just inferring that from DW's extension?