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Well, Cozens and Norris are both centers. If one looks at positional symmetry, Josh Doan is the replacement for Peterka, though he isn't a top six.

After the “core four” I see three groups of three battling for ice time and toncarve out a specific role for themselves. The third group is the easiest to identify: Krebs, Danforth and Malenstyn, the energy guys. These are the role players who will typically get 4th line minutes and bump up the roster when the team needs a jolt. Think Mair, Gaustad Group 2 is the scorers Zucker, Quinn and Kulich who will battle for PP time and offensive opportunities. Think Dumont, Afinogenov And group 3 is the “hard-to-play against” group of Benson, Greenway and Doan who will battle for shutdown time and the dirty work with skill guys. Hecht, Grier. Im really curious how much scoring we can get from Group 3 and how much defence from group 2 - I think rounding out their games will be key to their ice time, and how Lindy will mix and match in terms of lines and deployment. I see those 6 with more or less equal opportunity to fill out the top 9 in myriad ways based not only on how well they play, but what kind of identity Lindy wants to establish. Some will sink and some will swim.

Oh I would have. I’m a Sabrespacer, we know better. 😜

And the response back should be, "why? YOU sure as #### never showed us any better."

The Sabres are the least experienced team in the league. The defense has 1 guy who has over 300 games played.

I am real curious about what Lindy’s plans are for this group of forwards, if it’s indeed what they start the season with. I don’t think there is much debate about Thompson and Tuch being our top 2 forwards and the guys who are going to top the ice time charts. And Lindy seemed to make it clear down the stretch that he prefers Thompson on the wing, which is probably going to put these two on different lines. It was made pretty clear when they acquired him that they intend to lean on Norris heavily in a top 6 role. Whether that’s with Tage as in his brief trial, remains to be seen. And for all the Kulich chatter, Lindy playing McLeod 19 minutes a night as he registered a point per game makes it pretty clear who his other top centre is. It’s possible McLeod ends up centring a “3rd” (checking) line of some sort. But personally I think he and Tuch will be a hard-minute pairing on the “2nd” line deployed like the Drury line back in the day, while Tage and Norris are the first choice in offensive situations. Regardless of lines, I think it’s pretty clear these are the four guys starting at the top of the depth chart in terms of ice time.

We already experienced not having Cozens and the metrics that I saw show we got better. His removal has already been at min partially consumed. We wouldn't have to attach Norris to his play from last year. It's much more logical and clean to compare Norris being added, to the loss of Peterka. It's the clearer one for one.

I agree with your point that these are not kids. It remains for me though, that they are collectively young and inexperienced. Individually, any of them could fit in and play their role on a playoff/contending team. What is unclear is if they are talented enough to overcome* their collective youth and inexperience. *They also will likely need to overcome that they will not be playing within a sound, easily repeatable, defensive structure. I acknowledge that Ruff knows more about coaching hockey than I could learn in a dozen lifetimes, and also that he has not been blessed with having the most talented teams to coach since he left Buffalo. But it is undeniable that his teams have been bad defensively on a pretty consistent basis. Our D will not be playing in a system that demands structure and accountability and that is repeatable night after night, like the systems of a Cassidy, DeBoer, Maurice, or Brind’Amour.

I agree. Look at some of the key players on this team (the guys who are most important/get the most minutes) -Tage: 8 NHL seasons (all but 1 of them playing more than half the games), going into his 9th. 450 career games played. -Tuch: 9 NHL seasons (8 realistically not counting his brief appearance his first year), 536 games played. 66 additional playoff games, 4 playoff runs including deep to the cup finals. -Dahlin: 7 Full NHL seasons so far. 509 games played. In his 7 seasons, only 7 players in the entire NHL have more total ice time than him. International tournaments. -Zucker...14, maybe 15 year vet? 770 games played. 9 different (years) playoff appearances. -McLeod. 5 years (4 full seasons) going into his 6th. Most importantly with him is 4 years in the playoffs including a full run to the cup finals. -Byram has a cup run (and one he got a lot of top minutes in) Power is still young, but even he has already over 240 games played in his career, should pass 300 this season, and is 39th out of about 250 Dmen over the last 3 years in total minutes played. This isn't even considering other older 'veterans' who will play a lesser roll but have a lot of experience like Greenway, Danforth, Timmons, Malenstyn, even Lyons. That is less than most teams sure, but its not 'nothing'. There is more than enough there, in terms of age and experience, to generate a competent leadership core.

If I was coaching any member of this defence corps I would be entirely comfortable saying “you’re not a kid anymore, you should know better by now”

Do your machines modify a woman’s voice so that it sounds like a man? That’s one of the dumbest things I’ve ever encountered.

So the cherry wheat is in the fermenter. I bought a 750ml bottle for cherry concentrate and used about a 1/3 of it to somewhat match the 236ml shown on your bottle. I was kinda hoping the colour would be a bit more subtle.... There's no mistaking this is a cherry beer. I actually didn't realize how much impact the cherry would have on the colour so I had added a 1/4lb of Crystal 120L to the 10lb grain bill to redden it. Looks like it didn't need it, but it does provide a bit of a fruity flavour anyhow. Hopefully the taste will be subtle as you said. In reading recipes online, that seems to be the consensus.

They are men. But, except for Dahlin and Timmons they are still quite low on the "been around the block" scale which is really important for D-men. They are adults but there is a wisdom that comes with experience and there is a reason that D don't reach their peaks for a couple of years beyond them reaching their physical peaks. Expecting this D will still not be good enough. Mainly because the coaching, which could help bridge that "wisdom gap," is at absolute best adequate on a good day. Had they punted Wilford, would be much more intrigued by what this D can do. But still expect them to stand around leaving guys free to screen UPLyvi or tap in passes to the back door that get through them. Believe the D as constructed will could be good enough. Don't believe the tactics they will employ will let their talent prove out. Hoping that is too pessimistic, but haven't seen anything to believe it won't be.

This is the end of this thread.

I think you missed my point: accusing me of hiding something I specifically pointed out myself is odd. I have no problem with your opinion on games played. I agree it is a flaw in the composition of the defence corps. That’s why pointed it out.

I stand by my statement. This group is lacking and listing seasons played and then talking about the adversity they've faced as one of the least experienced groups in the league is hiding behind those seasons played. Not a single member of the group is over 25, calling them "men" as though they've reached that late 20s level is questionable.

I stand by my point: they are not grizzled veterans, but these are also not boys getting their first exposure to pro hockey. Physically and mentally, for the most part, they are men.

That seems an oddly inflammatory response to a post that specifically said

Upl, sunk cost fallacy

By games this defense is not experienced. Stop trying to hide that behind seasons played. This might be the least experienced defense group in the league.

Yes... CT formerly CAT scan... I take picts of peoples innards to see what ails them or just to determine that they are full of *****... hmm something something the Buffalo Sabres

But now we need to post the goals allowed at 5-on-5 the last three seasons combined.

UPL has an .898 career save percentage and was .910 2 years ago. Last year he was .887. The league average was exactly .900. Statistically speaking, his play was a significant factor in the Sabres poor record. Statistically speaking, based on his track record, we should expect him to be better this year. Im kinda expecting Lindy to treat him like the unquestioned starter in camp and out of the gate this year - 6 or 8 starts in the first 10 games and give him a chance to run with it. But I get the feeling that the belief in him is forced and his leash will be short if he drops the ball

I’ve said it earlier, but I think the team will sink or swim with this defence corps and how close each player performs to the concept of what they could be. In terms of tools, this group is upper-echelon - there aren’t many this big, and there aren’t many this mobile. The skill level is off the charts. The questions are twofold: can they defend, and can the coaching staff unleash all that talent? I foresee Timmins getting 15 minutes a night as Power’s base partner, mostly against lesser lines. If you listen to what Adams said he was looking for in a Power partner, it sounded a lot more like the safer Timmins than the more aggressive Kesselring. Situational play and shortened benches will have Power up around 22 minutes. Dahlin and Byram (24 and 22 minutes) will be the top ES pairing. And Samuelsson and Kesselring will get 17 and 19 minutes respectively, often against bigger forwards. As a group they are exceptionally inexperienced in terms of games played, but at the same time there aren’t any rookies here, or neophytes needing to be sheltered as they learn the league. This is Dahlin’s 8th year as a pro, year 7 for Timmins, the 5th for Kesselring, Byram and Samuelsson, and #4 for Power. They’ve been around the block, experienced their share of adversity and are at the point in their careers where it’s time to ***** or get off the pot.

analytically he’s one of the top forcheckers in the game + he has very good size. A very late bloomer (went undrafted in his first year of eligibility which is shocking given his name) so let’s hope he develops as a decent scorer. I don’t expect him to approach Peterka’s numbers but if he can get to 70% of peterka’s offense that would be a huge win