So, about that salary cap

[PerreaultForever]

47 minutes ago, JohnC said:

So are you arguing to deal him so he can thrive on another team. Although Benson still has plenty of upside to draw from that will come to fruition in the future, what you can't say about him is that even while still in the development stage he has hurt us.  Whatever limitations he currently has as a young player, he is still based on his play considered an on ice asset. 

I think he should be third line (or in Rochester) and his primary development goal right now should be adding muscle and strength. I want him to be elite when the process is complete but Sabres don't understand the development process. 

[JohnC]

14 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I think he should be third line (or in Rochester) and his primary development goal right now should be adding muscle and strength. I want him to be elite when the process is complete but Sabres don't understand the development process. 

Sending him to Rochester now to become a more finished product makes no sense. What you refuse to acknowledge is that he was an effective player for us last year. He certainly wasn’t a complete player due to his youth and his incomplete physical development, but  he was not a liability when he played. 
 

If you made the argument that he was playing on a line that was too high, I would consider it a reasonable position to take.  But your position that he should be sent to a lower league is off to me.

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, JohnC said:

Sending him to Rochester now to become a more finished product makes no sense. What you refuse to acknowledge is that he was an effective player for us last year. He certainly wasn’t a complete player due to his youth and his incomplete physical development, but  he was not a liability when he played. 
 

If you made the argument that he was playing on a line that was too high, I would consider it a reasonable position to take.  But your position that he should be sent to a lower league is off to me.

Well I believe that these younger players develop better if they have less pressure and can focus fully on aspects of their game and body that needs it. Both Tage and Mitts came back from Rochester better players than the ones that went down right? I don't want Benson to just be good for us, U want him to be great for us. If he's truly too dominant for Rochester he gets called back up later in the year. This is not complicated. If in camp he outperforms veterans by a lot then he also stays but that sort of internal competition is missing and these kids don't learn the right way to compete. There is always a lack of adequate veteran presence on this team and there still is. 

[DarthEbriate]

53 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well I believe that these younger players develop better if they have less pressure and can focus fully on aspects of their game and body that needs it. Both Tage and Mitts came back from Rochester better players than the ones that went down right? I don't want Benson to just be good for us, U want him to be great for us. If he's truly too dominant for Rochester he gets called back up later in the year. This is not complicated. If in camp he outperforms veterans by a lot then he also stays but that sort of internal competition is missing and these kids don't learn the right way to compete. There is always a lack of adequate veteran presence on this team and there still is. 

At this point, Benson is going to get better by being challenged by NHL-caliber defenders. He doesn’t need to work on defense at the AHL level. He doesn’t need to create chances for AHL-level finishers.

Should he be LW1? Nope. But that’s the franchise’s fault, not his. Let Benson cook.

Every team in the playoffs last season would’ve taken Benson on their playoff roster in a heartbeat. Minnesota would’ve put him on their 4th line because he’s short and they don’t like short kids getting schooled by Eichel and Hertl. But they should’ve offered the farm for Cozens and watched a taller kid get schooled by Eichel and Hertl. 

[Taro T]

11 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

At this point, Benson is going to get better by being challenged by NHL-caliber defenders. He doesn’t need to work on defense at the AHL level. He doesn’t need to create chances for AHL-level finishers.

Should he be LW1? Nope. But that’s the franchise’s fault, not his. Let Benson cook.

Every team in the playoffs last season would’ve taken Benson on their playoff roster in a heartbeat. Minnesota would’ve put him on their 4th line because he’s short and they don’t like short kids getting schooled by Eichel and Hertl. But they should’ve offered the farm for Cozens and watched a taller kid get schooled by Eichel and Hertl. 

Yep.  (Particularly to the stuff about Benny.)

Would really like to see Ruff come up with a lineup that doesn't have both Benson and Kulich on the top line.  Barring another move (and one HAS to be coming, right?  it just makes so darn much sense (yeah, yeah, wishful thinking)) expect they won't both be there on day 1, but expect they will be before October is out.  They could be great there a couple of seasons from now, but right now, would rather have more experienced players with Thompson letting the kids not face the same quality of opponents that Thompson will always get on the road and usually get at home.  (AKA, either the other team's top offensive line or their top defensive line depending upon the makeup and philosophy of the opponent that night.)

[PerreaultForever]

36 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

At this point, Benson is going to get better by being challenged by NHL-caliber defenders. He doesn’t need to work on defense at the AHL level. He doesn’t need to create chances for AHL-level finishers.

Should he be LW1? Nope. But that’s the franchise’s fault, not his. Let Benson cook.

Every team in the playoffs last season would’ve taken Benson on their playoff roster in a heartbeat. Minnesota would’ve put him on their 4th line because he’s short and they don’t like short kids getting schooled by Eichel and Hertl. But they should’ve offered the farm for Cozens and watched a taller kid get schooled by Eichel and Hertl. 

This team has developed players poorly for so long people here have forgotten how it's actually done. 

and then they wonder why the ship sails in circles with no leadership. 

If Benson got to lead a team to a Calder Cup while working on his strength and muscle he'd return a far better player than he will be as is but whatever. I'm not going to keep arguing the failure of Sabres development. The results speak for themselves. 

[LGR4GM]

Just now, PerreaultForever said:

This team has developed players poorly for so long people here have forgotten how it's actually done. 

and then they wonder why the ship sails in circles with no leadership. 

If Benson got to lead a team to a Calder Cup while working on his strength and muscle he'd return a far better player than he will be as is but whatever. I'm not going to keep arguing the failure of Sabres development. The results speak for themselves. 

Zach Benson doesn't need the AHL. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

This team has developed players poorly for so long people here have forgotten how it's actually done. 

and then they wonder why the ship sails in circles with no leadership. 

If Benson got to lead a team to a Calder Cup while working on his strength and muscle he'd return a far better player than he will be as is but whatever. I'm not going to keep arguing the failure of Sabres development. The results speak for themselves. 

Quinn and Peterka dominated at the AHL level before they made the team and performed at an NHL level when they arrived.

Kulich played 2 full seasons and went back again for the playoffs this year.

Johnson and Rosen are still cooking. Novikov and Wahlberg are still cooking. Östlund and Helenius are still cooking.

Power and Benson have been NHL players from day one no matter what way you try to spin them.

Have Sabres properly insulated and supported them? No. Have they done a good job of building an NHL roster?Absolutely not.

It’s not the fact these players were in the NHL too early that’s the issue, it’s the fact that there were too many of them at the same time with not enough veteran support.

 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Quinn and Peterka dominated at the AHL level before they made the team and performed at an NHL level when they arrived.

Kulich played 2 full seasons and went back again for the playoffs this year.

Johnson and Rosen are still cooking. Novikov and Wahlberg are still cooking. Östlund and Helenius are still cooking.

Power and Benson have been NHL players from day one no matter what way you try to spin them.

Have Sabres properly insulated and supported them? No. Have they done a good job of building an NHL roster?Absolutely not.

It’s not the fact these players were in the NHL too early that’s the issue, it’s the fact that there were too many of them at the same time with not enough veteran support.

 

Well yes, you can look at it that way but my point would still be we do not develop them properly. Not "properly insulated" and not "supported" with the roster as they build it is the problem. It's the full system of how we do it. That's really my point so at some stage I feel we need to reset it and start doing it the right way. Being on a team that wins. Being on a team that has a playoff run (even if it's AHL, it's still part of the process of becoming a pro). All of that matters too and that's part of why I think it would help him rather than hinder him. Proper NHL roster with insulation and support would be ideal as well but we don't have it.

Consider how we develop players however. Look at the differences in how the veterans we do bring in play from the way our home grown players play. That in and of itself is very telling. 

[JohnC]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well I believe that these younger players develop better if they have less pressure and can focus fully on aspects of their game and body that needs it. Both Tage and Mitts came back from Rochester better players than the ones that went down right? I don't want Benson to just be good for us, U want him to be great for us. If he's truly too dominant for Rochester he gets called back up later in the year. This is not complicated. If in camp he outperforms veterans by a lot then he also stays but that sort of internal competition is missing and these kids don't learn the right way to compete. There is always a lack of adequate veteran presence on this team and there still is. 

I’m confident that whatever role he has this season he will have earned.