Konsta Helenius getting some accolades

[inkman]

 

[ponokasabre]

Good for you kid!

 

See this is another reason I dont have a problem moving Peterka to get a Robertson or someone else, we have young pieces coming if we need them.

[PerreaultForever]

Perfect. We just increased his value for a now player. 

[LGR4GM]

29 minutes ago, ponokasabre said:

Good for you kid!

 

See this is another reason I dont have a problem moving Peterka to get a Robertson or someone else, we have young pieces coming if we need them.

Slow the F down. Helenius is in the AHL and is 18 (19 now) versus Peterka who's 23 and in the NHL. When Helenius gets to the NHL, you might be able to say this bolded. Suggesting that we have some mythical young piece coming that will be a 30g 60pt player while they're 4 more years out is how you end up in a perpetual rebuild. 

Yes I see the trade Peterka for Robertson part but we cant count on Helenius for anything yet. 

[Mr. Allen]

I’m excited to see him and Östlund battle it out for roles on this team. 

[JoeSchmoe]

1 hour ago, Mr. Allen said:

I’m excited to see him and Östlund battle it out for roles on this team. 

I'm excited for us to trade at least one in a package for a top 6.

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Slow the F down. Helenius is in the AHL and is 18 (19 now) versus Peterka who's 23 and in the NHL. When Helenius gets to the NHL, you might be able to say this bolded. Suggesting that we have some mythical young piece coming that will be a 30g 60pt player while they're 4 more years out is how you end up in a perpetual rebuild. 

Yes I see the trade Peterka for Robertson part but we cant count on Helenius for anything yet. 

I don't see anybody in Rochester ready to take a spot next season (not counting Kulich who already likely earned one this year). Maybe Kozak if we don't upgrade the bottom at all and they will likely elevate Levi but I don't think he's ready either. Helenius is 3 years away likely. You could argue 2-4 depending. But not soon. 

2 hours ago, Mr. Allen said:

I’m excited to see him and Östlund battle it out for roles on this team. 

2-3 years from now. 

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Slow the F down. Helenius is in the AHL and is 18 (19 now) versus Peterka who's 23 and in the NHL. When Helenius gets to the NHL, you might be able to say this bolded. Suggesting that we have some mythical young piece coming that will be a 30g 60pt player while they're 4 more years out is how you end up in a perpetual rebuild. 

Yes I see the trade Peterka for Robertson part but we cant count on Helenius for anything yet. 

Which is why, in addition to trying to snag Robertson (or someone else of that pedigree) they should be planning on bringing in another Zucker type (or 2).  When THAT guy, or Zucker, is too long in the tooth, then hopefully Helenius will be ready to be a regular contributor on the 3rd line and an in a pinch contributor higher up the lineup.

[Mr. Allen]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't see anybody in Rochester ready to take a spot next season (not counting Kulich who already likely earned one this year). Maybe Kozak if we don't upgrade the bottom at all and they will likely elevate Levi but I don't think he's ready either. Helenius is 3 years away likely. You could argue 2-4 depending. But not soon. 

2-3 years from now. 

And that’s fine.  We need a future too

Edited 22 hours ago by Mr. Allen

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't see anybody in Rochester ready to take a spot next season (not counting Kulich who already likely earned one this year). Maybe Kozak if we don't upgrade the bottom at all and they will likely elevate Levi but I don't think he's ready either. Helenius is 3 years away likely. You could argue 2-4 depending. But not soon. 

2-3 years from now. 

Thank god

Finally don't need 19 and 20yr olds in the lineup. 

[GoPuckYourself]

He does look promising, I really like Östlund, Novikov also. 

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, Mr. Allen said:

And that’s fine.  We need a future too

Stop thinking that way. Sabres have been doing that for 15 years now. That future never gets here because it's always paid for by the present. 

6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Thank god

Finally don't need 19 and 20yr olds in the lineup. 

Yes I agree with that, but I also don't think the current line up is anywhere close to being a playoff team. Without additions it'll be another year of futility and if Tuch leaves or Dahlin wants out it'll go backwards not forwards. 

[Mr. Allen]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Stop thinking that way. Sabres have been doing that for 15 years now. That future never gets here because it's always paid for by the present. 

Yes I agree with that, but I also don't think the current line up is anywhere close to being a playoff team. Without additions it'll be another year of futility and if Tuch leaves or Dahlin wants out it'll go backwards not forwards. 

No.  You stop thinking your way. lol.  
Look, I get it.  It’s been way too long since we’ve been in the playoffs and people are getting impatient.  But you can’t sacrifice your entire future just to put up a winning team finally.  Because that success will be short lived.  I’m young enough where I plan on being a fan in 10-20 years still.  I hate seeing all these old and impatient fans getting mad when we might dare draft a player in the top 10 when he might not help us win “right now”.  It’s ok if a player needs 2-3 years.  We need those type of players too.  Every successful franchise does. 

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Allen said:

No.  You stop thinking your way. lol.  
Look, I get it.  It’s been way too long since we’ve been in the playoffs and people are getting impatient.  But you can’t sacrifice your entire future just to put up a winning team finally.  Because that success will be short lived.  I’m young enough where I plan on being a fan in 10-20 years still.  I hate seeing all these old and impatient fans getting mad when we might dare draft a player in the top 10 when he might not help us win “right now”.  It’s ok if a player needs 2-3 years.  We need those type of players too.  Every successful franchise does. 

The situation that this franchise is currently in has to be put in context. A generation has passed by where this franchise has been an irrelevant NHL franchise. The time frame in which this franchise has not been in the playoffs is at a historical level. The fanbase has steadily eroded to the point there are games in which the opposition fans outnumber the hometown fans. If that isn't a call for a demonstration of some urgency by this front office, then what would it take? 

No one is suggesting that the organization should make a number of deals that deplete the system in order to squeak into a playoff spot that turns out to be a meaningless one-shot accomplishment. But that is not to say that a number of smart deals can't be constructed that improve this team in the short term (now) without mortgaging the future. There are tradeoffs between addressing the now at the expense of the future. All teams wrestle with that issue. This is an offseason where our usual leisurely pace of action needs to turn out to be accelerated to boost a fading franchise. And let's be clear, this isn't an issue of old timers vs youngsters differing perspectives on the direction of the franchise. It's about an abnormally run failed franchise becoming a normally run successful franchise. If not now, then when?  

[LGR4GM]

20 minutes ago, Mr. Allen said:

No.  You stop thinking your way. lol.  
Look, I get it.  It’s been way too long since we’ve been in the playoffs and people are getting impatient.  But you can’t sacrifice your entire future just to put up a winning team finally.  Because that success will be short lived.  I’m young enough where I plan on being a fan in 10-20 years still.  I hate seeing all these old and impatient fans getting mad when we might dare draft a player in the top 10 when he might not help us win “right now”.  It’s ok if a player needs 2-3 years.  We need those type of players too.  Every successful franchise does. 

Vegas didn't. 

[Mr. Allen]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Vegas didn't. 

Ok.  Touché.  But expansion. 

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Allen said:

Ok.  Touché.  But expansion. 

But all the futures they traded to win. Versus all the 1st rounders Adams has used to get Buffalo to... no where. 

[Pimlach]

28 minutes ago, Mr. Allen said:

No.  You stop thinking your way. lol.  
Look, I get it.  It’s been way too long since we’ve been in the playoffs and people are getting impatient.  But you can’t sacrifice your entire future just to put up a winning team finally.  Because that success will be short lived.  I’m young enough where I plan on being a fan in 10-20 years still.  I hate seeing all these old and impatient fans getting mad when we might dare draft a player in the top 10 when he might not help us win “right now”.  It’s ok if a player needs 2-3 years.  We need those type of players too.  Every successful franchise does. 

Old does not mean impatient.  In the case of the Sabres, old fans equate to resilient and steadfast.  

Since the Tank we have drafted these players in the "top 10 overall":   Reinhart (2), Eichel (2), Nylander (8), Mitts (8), Dahlin (1), Cozens (7), Quinn (8), Power (1), Savioe (9).  

How is the "draft in the top ten" strategy working and when is the "help us win right now" part ever going to happen?   

[JP51]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Stop thinking that way. Sabres have been doing that for 15 years now. That future never gets here because it's always paid for by the present. 

Yes I agree with that, but I also don't think the current line up is anywhere close to being a playoff team. Without additions it'll be another year of futility and if Tuch leaves or Dahlin wants out it'll go backwards not forwards. 

I agree here, I believe this year, this summer is critical... if you dont make the playoffs this year... (and we must remember that the people we are in the cellar with are lapping us with improvement)  then I cannot see Dahlin and Thompson standing for going into year 9 or 10 of no playoffs...  and even if Tuch signs... when will he want to have a functional career with a functional franchise...  and quite honestly with the lack of change at the helm and committment to transforming the FO,  the difficulty  of luring free agents with the win or die attitude to help improve the team, the battle we have with no trade clauses in player for player trades making it almost impossible to get the best player in the trade... or one who will help up transform the team. I think we are closer to a rebuild then we are the playoffs at this point. This summer and our performance next year will ultimately tell the tale...  but I fear we are ultimately looking at a massive overhaul in the FO with a potential tear down or at least a major re tool involving current core players that are late 20s and up

[Archie Lee]

51 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

But all the futures they traded to win. Versus all the 1st rounders Adams has used to get Buffalo to... no where. 

It hasn't got us much, has it?

The 8 teams that made it to the final 8 this year, have a combined 13 picks in the 1st round in the next 3 drafts.

The 8 teams that finished in the bottom 8, have a combined 37 picks in the 1st rd in the next 3 drafts.

None of the top 8 are planning to drop out of their positions in the next 3 years.  None of the bottom 8 are likely to get into the top 8 anytime soon.

What is perhaps interesting, is that the 6 teams that finished below us in the standings all have 5-6 picks in the 1st rd in the next 3 years. The Sabres have no extra 1st rd picks.  I'm not saying we should add any 1st rd picks, but it speaks to Adams's level of incompetence that we have clearly passed the stage of acquiring young assets, yet we are still at the bottom of the standings.  The teams below us are in rebuild mode; they aren't trying to win. Adams is trying to win, but doesn't know how.

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Archie Lee

[Mr. Allen]

OK then.  I’m guessing the average age of the people that have commented recently about trading our future to win now are a bit older.  The ones of you where it comes across that you don’t seem to care about this team in 5 years.  I’m 45.  So I’ve been through the drought and I know what it’s been like.  And I’m not saying don’t trade any of our prospects by the way.  It’s just coming off by some of you that the future doesn’t matter to you at all and all you care about is winning now.  And I don’t understand that. 

[Mr. Allen]

20 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Old does not mean impatient.  In the case of the Sabres, old fans equate to resilient and steadfast.  

Since the Tank we have drafted these players in the "top 10 overall":   Reinhart (2), Eichel (2), Nylander (8), Mitts (8), Dahlin (1), Cozens (7), Quinn (8), Power (1), Savioe (9).  

How is the "draft in the top ten" strategy working and when is the "help us win right now" part ever going to happen?   

Maybe this is the way.  Maybe Vegas and other teams who continue to trade for the correct players is the right way to go.  They seem to find a way to let the bottom teams grow their draft picks and then trade for them at the right time. 
I honestly wish we could do that.  But we have Kevyn Adams as GM and he is incapable of doing that.  So I have to hope at some point these young kids finally put it together and we become a power house for many years to come because of the way we built this team

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, Mr. Allen said:

Maybe this is the way.  Maybe Vegas and other teams who continue to trade for the correct players is the right way to go.  They seem to find a way to let the bottom teams grow their draft picks and then trade for them at the right time. 
I honestly wish we could do that.  But we have Kevyn Adams as GM and he is incapable of doing that.  So I have to hope at some point these young kids finally put it together and we become a power house for many years to come because of the way we built this team

Vegas had a great start thanks to the excellent work of their management team.   Vegas is a favored destination for players and is not a good comparison for Buffalo. 

My point is we had many excellent draft picks, but look at the results.  You have to do more than draft a bunch of top ten players.  

Edited 1 hour ago by Pimlach

[LTS]

There is no perfect formula. If there was teams would follow it.

There are things that work for teams at certain times and things that don't.  Any formula used assumes you execute it perfectly or damn close.

What is clear is that the Sabres have not executed any formula very well. The results speak for themselves.

 

[LGR4GM]

44 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

It hasn't got us much, has it?

The 8 teams that made it to the final 8 this year, have a combined 13 picks in the 1st round in the next 3 drafts.

The 8 teams that finished in the bottom 8, have a combined 37 picks in the 1st rd in the next 3 drafts.

None of the top 8 are planning to drop out of their positions in the next 3 years.  None of the bottom 8 are likely to get into the top 8 anytime soon.

What is perhaps interesting, is that the 6 teams that finished below us in the standings all have 5-6 picks in the 1st rd in the next 3 years. The Sabres have no extra 1st rd picks.  I'm not saying we should add any 1st rd picks, but it speaks to Adams's level of incompetence that we have clearly passed the stage of acquiring young assets, yet we are still at the bottom of the standings.  The teams below us are in rebuild mode; they aren't trying to win. Adams is trying to win, but doesn't know how.

 

We haven't won a playoff series since 2007. So yes, it's not gotten us much.