Chad D: expect a Byram trade at or around the draft

[Thorny]

49 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

No it does not. St Louis won the Cup. 

Agree with you, but not for this reason. It’s already a win for St. Louis, yes. 

But from our perspective, if we traded Thompson today for a 5th round pick and the pick becomes Ovechkin in 6 years it’s not a good trade. This is an extreme example but Tage becoming good will never make torpedoing that team just as Eichel was coming off his ELC retroactively good. It will always be bad. Did people forget what it led to with Finkle and Einhorn? We still haven’t won. It was a terrible trade 

Edited yesterday at 08:09 PM by Thorny

[sabremike]

30 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I’m not entirely sure what 0-11 represents, but if you are trying to say Byram’s play is directly responsible for a team losing streak and has no bearing on goals scored when he’s on the ice, there’s no point talking.

0-11 is what happened when Dahlin was out injured. Byram was put in Dahlin's slot and the team was essentially the expansion Caps.

Also +/- is the single most useless and worthless stat in all of hockey. 

[Thorny]

31 minutes ago, sabremike said:

0-11 is what happened when Dahlin was out injured. Byram was put in Dahlin's slot and the team was essentially the expansion Caps.

Also +/- is the single most useless and worthless stat in all of hockey. 

It’s true, he was exposed quite severely 

His best talent is not actively dragging Dahlin down. Sort of like you or I would. But he has that goingfor him: he can be a net neutral when playing with a top 5 league D

[dudacek]

28 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It’s true, he was exposed quite severely 

His best talent is not actively dragging Dahlin down. Sort of like you or I would. But he has that goingfor him: he can be a net neutral when playing with a top 5 league D

If net neutral means 70% goals for, sure.

Oh right, goals for and against is the single most meaningless stat.

[shrader]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Agree with you, but not for this reason. It’s already a win for St. Louis, yes. 

But from our perspective, if we traded Thompson today for a 5th round pick and the pick becomes Ovechkin in 6 years it’s not a good trade. This is an extreme example but Tage becoming good will never make torpedoing that team just as Eichel was coming off his ELC retroactively good. It will always be bad. Did people forget what it led to with Finkle and Einhorn? We still haven’t won. It was a terrible trade 

Again, all of this is not the point.  I knew I shouldn't have mentioned that trade for these exact reasons.  But all I'm trying to say is that the return of a trade will look different as time passes.  One year after that trade it looked very bad.  Today?  We have the most prolific goal scorer this franchise has seen in 30 years.  Judging McLeod/Savoie today?  It's mostly pointless (but at least it's better than a day 0 judgement).

[Thorny]

16 minutes ago, dudacek said:

If net neutral means 70% goals for, sure.

Oh right, goals for and against is the single most meaningless stat.

He’s not contributing to the pair’s output 

Dahlin is the pair. Byram is a statistical passenger 

Byram isn’t good. You disagree. Thankfully he’s almost gone so we can stop rehashing this 

18 minutes ago, shrader said:

Again, all of this is not the point.  I knew I shouldn't have mentioned that trade for these exact reasons.  But all I'm trying to say is that the return of a trade will look different as time passes.  One year after that trade it looked very bad.  Today?  We have the most prolific goal scorer this franchise has seen in 30 years.  Judging McLeod/Savoie today?  It's mostly pointless (but at least it's better than a day 0 judgement).

Today? It looks very bad - that’s the part I disagree with. Bad, with a side of prolific goal scorer 

[dudacek]

17 minutes ago, Thorny said:

He’s not contributing to the pair’s output 

Right, because Dahlin is at 70% with everybody.

[sabremike]

37 minutes ago, dudacek said:

If net neutral means 70% goals for, sure.

Oh right, goals for and against is the single most meaningless stat.

You could pair Dahlin with a scarecrow (or even Matt Tennyson) and get comparable results.

[dudacek]

Just now, sabremike said:

You could pair Dahlin with a scarecrow (or even Matt Tennyson) and get comparable results.

Yes the numbers certainly bear that out.

Sorry for suggesting otherwise 

[dudacek]

Some interesting takes in the latest Fairburn/Baker podcast on Byram Peterka and their fit and future.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, dudacek said:

Some interesting takes in the latest Fairburn/Baker podcast on Byram Peterka and their fit and future.

Such as?

[dudacek]

Self-serving because they are saying some of the things I’ve been saying on here.

They get into it quickly maybe 9 minutes in

 

Edited 23 hours ago by dudacek

[7+6=13]

11 hours ago, JohnC said:

You may not be aware of it but the GM’s job is to put together a team. The reason to make transactions is to improve the team and be more competitive against other teams. By that measurement the GM is a dismal failure. You may be desperately searching for meaningless  moral victories while I’m evaluating our feeble GM based on the team’s  record. We were a back of the pack team when he assumed the GM position and after five years we still are a back of the pack team. That’s the real measurement!

Ever hear the saying, they can't see what's right in front of them?  That's you.  Stop pretending I said anything close to something that would warrant your response.

He won the Mitts trade.

[Archie Lee]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

If net neutral means 70% goals for, sure.

Oh right, goals for and against is the single most meaningless stat.

I’m with you (and Baker) on Byram. Extend him and let him be Dahlin’s long-term partner. He just turned 24. 

Power and Clifton make the same combined salary as Kadri and Andersson in Calgary. I’m not saying straight up (maybe we can get a pick or prospect too) and of course we have trade clauses to contend with, but if you want to make the playoffs this year, wouldn’t we just be a better team if we traded Power, Clifton, Kulich for Kadri, Andersson, and a wanker like Popisil (plus a future asset).  And we can take a D at 9. 

[7+6=13]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

You know (and don't take this personal, it's just a general feeling I have), the bottom line is I don't really give a flying F if KA won a trade or got more for one guy than another one and we can argue those things but really who cares? He didn't and can't seem to construct a winning roster despite having multiple years on the job, multiple picks and multiple opportunities. Who cares if one guy wins an award or one guy is better than a previous guy, Adams is in year 6 now and the team is still garbage. That's all that matters to me. 

Just so we understand each other (not assuming you care to).  I'm not trying to support an ancillary point by saying he won the Mitts trade.  You're trying to draw concussions from that and there's no dots to connect.

It may surprise you that I agree with most of you said above, except the "who cares?".  I think it does matter that we have the better player out of that situation as we hope to be moving forward.  It's actually how you move forward.  It's small thing, but it's a thing.

If we string together things, something can happen.  Of course only my opinion.

You of course wouldn't hope we lost that trade in retrospect, would you? Then you'd be guilty of feeding an agenda.  So if the answer is no, that you wish we actually lost the trade.

Then you know who does care?  You and me.

[shrader]

5 hours ago, Thorny said:

He’s not contributing to the pair’s output 

Dahlin is the pair. Byram is a statistical passenger 

Byram isn’t good. You disagree. Thankfully he’s almost gone so we can stop rehashing this 

Today? It looks very bad - that’s the part I disagree with. Bad, with a side of prolific goal scorer 

Yeah, the rest of it sucked, but it looks better together today than it did one year after the trade.  I shouldn't have to spell this out for anyone.  Again, I picked a poor example I guess since it's a sensitive topic around here.  The results of a trade change over time and it's not a competition between the two teams involved.  I'd actually say its the exact opposite.  Both want to gain from it and that can and has happened plenty of times.  The gold standard would probably be Iginla for Nieuwendyk.  I doubt that Calgary fans give two shits that Dallas won a cup after that deal.

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, 7+6=13 said:

Just so we understand each other (not assuming you care to).  I'm not trying to support an ancillary point by saying he won the Mitts trade.  You're trying to draw concussions from that and there's no dots to connect.

It may surprise you that I agree with most of you said above, except the "who cares?".  I think it does matter that we have the better player out of that situation as we hope to be moving forward.  It's actually how you move forward.  It's small thing, but it's a thing.

If we string together things, something can happen.  Of course only my opinion.

You of course wouldn't hope we lost that trade in retrospect, would you? Then you'd be guilty of feeding an agenda.  So if the answer is no, that you wish we actually lost the trade.

Then you know who does care?  You and me.

I don't disagree but I'd differentiate in one way. It's fair to say Byram is the better player of Byram and Mitts, especially the way Mitts has trailed off over last season. But Byram wasn't the guy we needed and if we now trade Byram I don't see how it matters unless we get some great return. Then I guess it's a "win". 

The main point for me though is I don't care about winning any of the trades. As long as the roster gets better. As long as he fills the actual holes, then I'm not overly concerned with the price he pays to do that. All that matters to me is the season starting roster and having a roster that could make the playoffs. It's going to take a number of moves to make that a realistic possibility. 

[mjd1001]

7 hours ago, sabremike said:

0-11 is what happened when Dahlin was out injured. Byram was put in Dahlin's slot and the team was essentially the expansion Caps.

Also +/- is the single most useless and worthless stat in all of hockey. 

Agree on the first part.

+/- though? By itself it may be useless to many, but in context with other stats or simply observations It has some value.

[Thorny]

4 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

I’m with you (and Baker) on Byram. Extend him and let him be Dahlin’s long-term partner. He just turned 24. 

Power and Clifton make the same combined salary as Kadri and Andersson in Calgary. I’m not saying straight up (maybe we can get a pick or prospect too) and of course we have trade clauses to contend with, but if you want to make the playoffs this year, wouldn’t we just be a better team if we traded Power, Clifton, Kulich for Kadri, Andersson, and a wanker like Popisil (plus a future asset).  And we can take a D at 9. 

Kris Baker likes him? Oh I’ve never been more certain he terrible 

[Alaska John]

I haven't been paying much attention to the Sabres in the off season so I have to ask, what's behind this desire to trade Byram?  When he came in for Mittelstadt it sounded like a win for the Sabres (and the Avalanche proceeded to trade Casey to the Bruins).  Have the Sabres decided Byram wasn't good enough?

[steveoath]

12 minutes ago, Alaska John said:

I haven't been paying much attention to the Sabres in the off season so I have to ask, what's behind this desire to trade Byram?  When he came in for Mittelstadt it sounded like a win for the Sabres (and the Avalanche proceeded to trade Casey to the Bruins).  Have the Sabres decided Byram wasn't good enough?

Seems like Byram believes he is good enough to be a top pair forward, wants paid like it and wants the minutes - esp on the PP. He’s not taking Dahlin’s spot on the powerplay and sabres have already paid Power. 
 

I think sabres picked him up as he seems to be a more valuable trade piece than mittelstadt was. 

[Thorny]

23 minutes ago, steveoath said:

Seems like Byram believes he is good enough to be a top pair forward, wants paid like it and wants the minutes - esp on the PP. He’s not taking Dahlin’s spot on the powerplay and sabres have already paid Power. 
 

I think sabres picked him up as he seems to be a more valuable trade piece than mittelstadt was. 

On this team, he may have a point 

[steveoath]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

On this team, he may have a point 

Quite possibly. But personally I would like a different type of defenseman. One that can actually defend! Too many of the same type. 

[LGR4GM]

We should trade Samuelsson and keep Byram. That's where I fall after all this discussion. 

[Mr. Allen]

50 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We should trade Samuelsson and keep Byram. That's where I fall after all this discussion. 

We have team control of Byram for one more year?