Sabres Management will be in the Bills Draft Room at One Bills Drive for the 2025 NHL Draft

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Yea and Paul Hamilton was on there today lamenting how Buffalo rushes all their prospects to the NHL... like Power who went back to college or Kulich who spent 2yrs in the AHL just like Peterka and Quinn. They love stating ideas as facts. Usually the morning show is a bit better. 

Note: I understand it's talk radio so I get it's all this. 

Well, in fairness, there are 2 components to the "they rush their prospects to the NHL" line of thought.

Their players get to the NHL a tad earlier than other teams youngsters get there, but once there they end up getting thrown into top 6, top 4, and starting goalie roles.  MOST of the guys on other teams end up eased into the NHL in the bottom 6; 4/5/6 D; or or backup roles.  The Sabres have them centering the 1st line after 2 years in the AHL.

And that puts the kids into roles that other teams don't force them en masse into.  Adams seems to have run an experiment believing that it isn't so much growing into fully adult bodies that translates to effective NHLers but rather experience in the NHL that translates into effective NHLers provided the players have the talent that they should be in those roles in their primes.  In general, we're seeing that yeah, players really need both to be effective in top of the lineup roles - they need to be men and they need experience.  Yes, there are some very rare exceptions, but in general, they do need both.  

[LGR4GM]

28 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Well, in fairness, there are 2 components to the "they rush their prospects to the NHL" line of thought.

Their players get to the NHL a tad earlier than other teams youngsters get there, but once there they end up getting thrown into top 6, top 4, and starting goalie roles.  MOST of the guys on other teams end up eased into the NHL in the bottom 6; 4/5/6 D; or or backup roles.  The Sabres have them centering the 1st line after 2 years in the AHL.

And that puts the kids into roles that other teams don't force them en masse into.  Adams seems to have run an experiment believing that it isn't so much growing into fully adult bodies that translates to effective NHLers but rather experience in the NHL that translates into effective NHLers provided the players have the talent that they should be in those roles in their primes.  In general, we're seeing that yeah, players really need both to be effective in top of the lineup roles - they need to be men and they need experience.  Yes, there are some very rare exceptions, but in general, they do need both.  

Don't agree at all. Teams top prospects aren't being put on 3rd and 4th lines.

[LGR4GM]

I'm sure it does happen but the majority get pp and good linemates. Buffalo isn't rushing prospects, it's simply we only have prospects until basically this season. 

[Taro T]

15 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Don't agree at all. Teams top prospects aren't being put on 3rd and 4th lines.

Disagree all you want.  Other teams (particularly good teams) don't have youth in key roles to anywhere near the extent that the Sabres put them.  

18 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I'm sure it does happen but the majority get pp and good linemates. Buffalo isn't rushing prospects, it's simply we only have prospects until basically this season. 

Can you please expound upon this thought?  Not sure the point you are making here.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Disagree all you want.  Other teams (particularly good teams) don't have youth in key roles to anywhere near the extent that the Sabres put them.  

Can you please expound upon this thought?  Not sure the point you are making here.

Buffalo has more young players than other teams. They aren't rushed it's most teams don't add 2 22yr olds. So you're 1st part is literally what I am saying in the 2nd part. That's not rushing prospects, that's lacking older players. Not the same thing.

[Taro T]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Buffalo has more young players than other teams. They aren't rushed it's most teams don't add 2 22yr olds. So you're 1st part is literally what I am saying in the 2nd part. That's not rushing prospects, that's lacking older players. Not the same thing.

 

Thank you for the reply.  That does clarify what you were saying.  🍺  (Don't agree, but do understand.)

The RESULT is the same thing.  You can say it "isn't rushed" but if at the end of the day ...

Edited Monday at 10:21 PM by Taro T

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

The RESULT is the same thing.  You can say it "isn't rushed" but if at the end of the day ...

It isn't rushed. You're confusing "this guy isn't ready but screw it! nhl now" with "this guy is ready and so is this other guy, too the nhl then"

Rush versus Volume

The Sabres aren't rushing players. Kulich wasn't rushed. Quinn, Peterka, Power, Benson were not rushed. Is it too many young guys? Maybe yea but those guys weren't rushed to the NHL.

Edited Monday at 10:21 PM by LGR4GM

[LabattBlue]

7 hours ago, dudacek said:

Do people think the Sabres still have a bare-bones hockey department?

Post- COVID it has gradually returned to what I perceived as more or less "normal" NHL levels.

Last time I looked at things, they were still kinda shy in pro scouting but high in player development/coaching, and pretty typical in the front office, analytics and amateur scouting.

The inner circle looks something like this:

• GM: Adams
• Senior advisor: Kekalainen
• Associate GM: Karmanos
• Head coach: Ruff
• VP hockey strategy and research: Ventura (analytics) 
• Assistant GM Forton (scouting)
• Assistant GM Jakubowski (caps/contracts)
• Assistant to the GM: Staal
• Pro scouting: Crowe
• Amateur scouting: Nightingale
• Player development: Mair

I don't think the Sabres website has been updated in a while and this is the movement season in the hockey business, but the team has roughly

• 13 scouts (it's not broken down into pro and amateur)
• 2 analytics engineers
• 4 NHL assistant coaches
• 1 AHL head coach
• 2 AHL assistant coaches
• 3 development coaches
• 2 video coaches
• 1 skating and skills instructor

So that's 39 people. Plus it has a 10-person "performance department" dedicated to the health and fitness of the athletes (strength coach etc).

 

Thanks.  I stand corrected.  

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It isn't rushed. You're confusing "this guy isn't ready but screw it! nhl now" with "this guy is ready and so is this other guy, too the nhl then"

Rush versus Volume

The Sabres aren't rushing players. Kulich wasn't rushed. Quinn, Peterka, Power, Benson were not rushed. Is it too many young guys? Maybe yea but those guys weren't rushed to the NHL.

They AREN'T ready for the roles they're given.  Kulich was servicable as a FIRST LINE CENTER at age 20 when he wasn't playing against top teams.  He was horrendously lost when he was.  If the other team's top guys came full steam at the net, he'd lose his coverage.  And that isn't a knock on him.  It's a knock on the roster building that put him into that spot.

Should he be in the NHL right now?  Probably.  (Would prefer to see them bring in enough reinforcements in the off-season that he's an Amerk on Day 1 once again, but that is unlikely.)  Is he a #1 C?  Not even CLOSE.  Not against playoff competition.

So, he wasn't rushed INTO the NHL.  But he sure as heck WAS rushed into the 1C role.

Why was Power, nearly 1 season removed from his draft brought in as the Sabres 3D?  Was he ready for the NHL?  Yes.  Was he ready to be the key man on his pairing?  NO.

Quinn was written in ink, coming off a leg injury that kept him from training nearly the entire off-season into a top 6 role.  Again, he WAS rushed into the role he was given.  

GOOD teams don't have rosters that are this young.  And GOOD teams don't have this much youth in key roles.  The Sabres DO in fact rush their young players into roles they aren't ready for because the managing philosophy is (or at least it was for several seasons) "no blocking."  

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

They AREN'T ready for the roles they're given.  Kulich was servicable as a FIRST LINE CENTER at age 20 when he wasn't playing against top teams.  He was horrendously lost when he was.  If the other team's top guys came full steam at the net, he'd lose his coverage.  And that isn't a knock on him.  It's a knock on the roster building that put him into that spot.

Should he be in the NHL right now?  Probably.  (Would prefer to see them bring in enough reinforcements in the off-season that he's an Amerk on Day 1 once again, but that is unlikely.)  Is he a #1 C?  Not even CLOSE.  Not against playoff competition.

So, he wasn't rushed INTO the NHL.  But he sure as heck WAS rushed into the 1C role.

Why was Power, nearly 1 season removed from his draft brought in as the Sabres 3D?  Was he ready for the NHL?  Yes.  Was he ready to be the key man on his pairing?  NO.

Quinn was written in ink, coming off a leg injury that kept him from training nearly the entire off-season into a top 6 role.  Again, he WAS rushed into the role he was given.  

GOOD teams don't have rosters that are this young.  And GOOD teams don't have this much youth in key roles.  The Sabres DO in fact rush their young players into roles they aren't ready for because the managing philosophy is (or at least it was for several seasons) "no blocking."  

We don't agree. I think you're arguing a completely different point entirely. 

[JohnC]

36 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We don't agree. I think you're arguing a completely different point entirely. 

I like Benson a lot. He shouldn't be playing on the top line at this early stage in his career. Both JJP and Kulich have played on the first line. Those were advanced roles that they really didn't earn. That's not to say that eventually that they won't be top line players but playing them at those higher roles was an indication that the roster was not full enough to play these youngsters where they should have been slotted at this time. 

[Wyldnwoody44]

6 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

It's hilarious how you're backtracking. First you said Adams was incompetent at drafting. Now you're saying it doesn't matter if he is competent at that one thing. Why do you feel compelled to make up stuff? Do you feel that because he's been a disappointment at his job you can just lie about whatever?

Or you could be less of a douche in general. OK then I stand by it, Adams is a bad drafter. You're ball washing of KA makes me think that you're related to him, I'm sorry that I made fun of your uncle. 

5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Because it would force you to say something good about Adams. The horror.

Truth, he is horrible at his job. He should be fired... And should have never been hired. Again I'm sorry your friend/family member is bad at his job. It's OK to admit it 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

I like Benson a lot. He shouldn't be playing on the top line at this early stage in his career. Both JJP and Kulich have played on the first line. Those were advanced roles that they really didn't earn. That's not to say that eventually that they won't be top line players but playing them at those higher roles was an indication that the roster was not full enough to play these youngsters where they should have been slotted at this time. 

Zach Benson was and is fine on the top line. 

Peterka put up 68pts.

Kulich, sure, I agree there. The other two I disagree with and Benson only played the end of the season up top. 

[PromoTheRobot]

50 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

Or you could be less of a douche in general. OK then I stand by it, Adams is a bad drafter. You're ball washing of KA makes me think that you're related to him, I'm sorry that I made fun of your uncle. 

Truth, he is horrible at his job. He should be fired... And should have never been hired. Again I'm sorry your friend/family member is bad at his job. It's OK to admit it 

Double down when you're wrong because you know most posters here will back you up. 

[LGR4GM]

You two are annoying. 

After 2020 and Peterka not included, there's been a marked improvement in Sabres drafting. Ideally you need about 2.4ish players per draft. While I think the Sabres have left value on the table in round 2, Kulich,  Benson, Peterka are excellent values. 

The later picks are still uncertain. Novikov probably has an nhl future depending on skating. One of the rhd will make it. I like ziemer a bunch and Wahlberg has potential. The Sabres aren't the best drafting team but under Adams I'd say they went from below average to just a smidgen above. Their 2023 and 2024 drafts are imo quite interesting. 

[Wyldnwoody44]

21 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Double down when you're wrong because you know most posters here will back you up. 

I'm wrong?.... That the sabres have missed the playoffs under the tenure of KA, every season he's been GM, including becoming a worse team. 

Facts are facts... I'm done with this convo 

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

You two are annoying. 

After 2020 and Peterka not included, there's been a marked improvement in Sabres drafting. Ideally you need about 2.4ish players per draft. While I think the Sabres have left value on the table in round 2, Kulich,  Benson, Peterka are excellent values. 

The later picks are still uncertain. Novikov probably has an nhl future depending on skating. One of the rhd will make it. I like ziemer a bunch and Wahlberg has potential. The Sabres aren't the best drafting team but under Adams I'd say they went from below average to just a smidgen above. Their 2023 and 2024 drafts are imo quite interesting. 

Annoying eh? 

Coming from the man that is in a spat in every thread 

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Wyldnwoody44 said:

I'm wrong?.... That the sabres have missed the playoffs under the tenure of KA, every season he's been GM, including becoming a worse team. 

Facts are facts... I'm done with this convo 

Annoying eh? 

Coming from the man that is in a spat in every thread 

Hey! That's not...

... I mean...

... touche

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You two are annoying. 

After 2020 and Peterka not included, there's been a marked improvement in Sabres drafting. Ideally you need about 2.4ish players per draft. While I think the Sabres have left value on the table in round 2, Kulich,  Benson, Peterka are excellent values. 

The later picks are still uncertain. Novikov probably has an nhl future depending on skating. One of the rhd will make it. I like ziemer a bunch and Wahlberg has potential. The Sabres aren't the best drafting team but under Adams I'd say they went from below average to just a smidgen above. Their 2023 and 2024 drafts are imo quite interesting. 

He does seem to do a reasonably "good" job drafting.  Problem is, when his plan to finally get us out of the desert is to do it through the draft, he needs to be EXCELLENT at drafting.

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, Taro T said:

He does seem to do a reasonably "good" job drafting.  Problem is, when his plan to finally get us out of the desert is to do it through the draft, he needs to be EXCELLENT at drafting.

The GM position has so many varied aspects to it. It is the like being the head of a multi-company corporation. One required trait you have to have to be successful is that you have to hire quality support staff. Another critical trait is that you have to have a broader vision than if you worked in one of the departments in the company. 
 

KA is a fine fellow. He’s playing checkers in a chess match. I say this with no malice intended: He’s simply in over his head. 

[Pimlach]

21 hours ago, dudacek said:

I don't think there can be any debate the flaws arise from the top of the pile: an owner who wants a GM to implement the owner's "vision" who has been unable to find a GM who can both do that, and be successful at the same time.

I don't doubt he can find one; just look at Brandon Beane.

But it's not been Kevyn Adams, and it's hard to find hope he will ever figure it out, no matter how many people Terry lets him hire.

You don't believe that Beane is implementing Pegula's vision with the Bills do you? 

Beane is implementing his own vision (along with McDermott's)  and it happens to be one that Terry agrees with. 

Luckily, Terry's son did not play Pop Warner Football.  

[Archie Lee]

15 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

It isn't rushed. You're confusing "this guy isn't ready but screw it! nhl now" with "this guy is ready and so is this other guy, too the nhl then"

Rush versus Volume

The Sabres aren't rushing players. Kulich wasn't rushed. Quinn, Peterka, Power, Benson were not rushed. Is it too many young guys? Maybe yea but those guys weren't rushed to the NHL.

Agreed. The Sabres started last season with a top 6 of:

Peterka / Thompson / Tuch

Benson / Cozens / Quinn

It is not that any of those players were not NHL ready, it is that 4 of them were 23 and under. Then, when the first injury happened, we called up 20 year old Kulich. And Krebs was our 4th line C.  And Byram and Power were in our top 4 D.  And Levi was our back-up goalie.

Most of these guys were ready for a role.  All of them on the roster, in key positions, at the same time, was not a plan for success.  It was a GM in over his head.