How would you retool this team this summer?

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

The point I'm making and stressing is that just because you can't get the bonanza deal done doesn't mean that you can't make enough smart moves that will consequentially improve your roster. The model to follow are the Washington Capitals. Over the past two years, their GM made at least a half a dozen deals that weren't headline deals, yet dramatically remade the team. Including in those deals were the addition of their two goalies who were an excellent tandem. It can be done. If you have a GM who is creative and enterprising, there are good deals to be made. 

The Sabres are in a lot better position to participate in the market than most teams. We have a number of good prospects in the system, some players on their current roster that can be dangled (most notably Byram), some cap room  and draft pick to parlay. It can be done!

Ya I can't disagree with that but it takes will and a GM who will make moves and not just wait for prospects to develop. Adams isn't that guy. 

[DarthEbriate]

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

You make it work. Bennett and Marchand I'm thinking is 15. Cuylle is projected at 3.43 and according to the internet if you offered him 4.67 you'd only have to give up a second. Would he take it? idk. I'm offering all the same. So let's just say 20 all 3. I'm moving Norris out and then Byram likely out as well. Byram makes 3.85 but is being projected at around 9 which to me is crazy but there it is. Norris is 7.95. That's your top 4 D money. Parayko for example makes 8. St. Louis isn't trading him but there's enough money to pay a top 4 D man. You might have to bridge JJP if he's greedy but I don't see a problem. The cap is rising too and then we shed Zucker and later Greenway. I see no issue. 

For Cuylle, my follow through was to ship them Quinn for the return of BUF 2nd (and whatever else balances out the trade). But Cuylle will take much more than 4.67 to pry from New York. The 2nd-only level is easy for the Rangers to match and then still re-sign RFA K'Andre Miller. You need to break 7M so that they're forced to take the picks rather than match. Otherwise, you just make Drury's job easy.

The potential problems are threefold: 1) the owner is still living in an EEE world where the cap is not necessarily their cap; 2) Tuch can sign an extension beginning this summer and doesn't owe this team/leadership a hometown discount (and the NHLPA and his agent can tell him he's worth $9+); and 3) Skinner's buyout is going to cut $6.444 off the cap in the first year that Tuch's extension is due + Benson's 2nd contract (possibly a bridge, but not if he breaks out).

Like I said, you can always move Power, because unless he's a D-zone stud and getting PP2 to click at 22% or better, he probably can't earn his contract's expectations until the back half of its term when the cap is high enough.

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

For Cuylle, my follow through was to ship them Quinn for the return of BUF 2nd (and whatever else balances out the trade). But Cuylle will take much more than 4.67 to pry from New York. The 2nd-only level is easy for the Rangers to match and then still re-sign RFA K'Andre Miller. You need to break 7M so that they're forced to take the picks rather than match. Otherwise, you just make Drury's job easy.

The potential problems are threefold: 1) the owner is still living in an EEE world where the cap is not necessarily their cap; 2) Tuch can sign an extension beginning this summer and doesn't owe this team/leadership a hometown discount (and the NHLPA and his agent can tell him he's worth $9+); and 3) Skinner's buyout is going to cut $6.444 off the cap in the first year that Tuch's extension is due + Benson's 2nd contract (possibly a bridge, but not if he breaks out).

Like I said, you can always move Power, because unless he's a D-zone stud and getting PP2 to click at 22% or better, he probably can't earn his contract's expectations until the back half of its term when the cap is high enough.

Just move some pieces. Honestly don't care who. I like Benson on this roster and that's about it. 

[sabremike]

3 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

For Cuylle, my follow through was to ship them Quinn for the return of BUF 2nd (and whatever else balances out the trade). But Cuylle will take much more than 4.67 to pry from New York. The 2nd-only level is easy for the Rangers to match and then still re-sign RFA K'Andre Miller. You need to break 7M so that they're forced to take the picks rather than match. Otherwise, you just make Drury's job easy.

The potential problems are threefold: 1) the owner is still living in an EEE world where the cap is not necessarily their cap; 2) Tuch can sign an extension beginning this summer and doesn't owe this team/leadership a hometown discount (and the NHLPA and his agent can tell him he's worth $9+); and 3) Skinner's buyout is going to cut $6.444 off the cap in the first year that Tuch's extension is due + Benson's 2nd contract (possibly a bridge, but not if he breaks out).

Like I said, you can always move Power, because unless he's a D-zone stud and getting PP2 to click at 22% or better, he probably can't earn his contract's expectations until the back half of its term when the cap is high enough.

How can I put this in a tact manner:

Worrying about a Tuch extension is a moot point as the odds of signing Marner (essentially a pipe dream) are far better than Tuch signing an extension. Unless a biblical miracle occurs Tuch will be dealt at the deadline for a late round 2027 first before he can walk as a UFA. He is as good as gone and accepting that fact will make it far less painful when it actually happens.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, sabremike said:

How can I put this in a tact manner:

Worrying about a Tuch extension is a moot point as the odds of signing Marner (essentially a pipe dream) are far better than Tuch signing an extension. Unless a biblical miracle occurs Tuch will be dealt at the deadline for a late round 2027 first before he can walk as a UFA. He is as good as gone and accepting that fact will make it far less painful when it actually happens.

I would agree with this except for his Buffalo connection and his inner wish to succeed as a Sabre. I think that gives it a slim chance that he will stay and sign an extension. Slim, but real. 

[JohnC]

On 5/21/2025 at 11:44 PM, thewookie1 said:

 

 

Keeping Tuch is a priority

My impending fear is that the Sabres stay stuck on the road to mediocrity and a player like Tuch concludes that it is in his best interest to take an off-ramp to liberation. It's got to bother him that the team he was traded from wins the Cup and is a regular playoff participant while the team he goes to is plagued with organizational dysfunction that has perennially kept him on the couch watching playoff games of other teams. Careers are short and quickly pass by. It won't be surprising that when he has contract leverage to move on, that he will use it. And even a bigger fear is what happens when Dahlin gets fed up with his plight to the point where he says get me out of here! If Jack with a long-term contract could do it with wonderful results, then why can't I. 

Few people expect this perturbing owner to act out of desperation and order a flurry of action to demonstrate that he cares. What is the most bothersome is that there isn't even a demonstration of urgency to do what is required to do to become a relevant team. Cruising along when you are on the same road to failure is gesture to fans that I don't care.  I just don't understand this owner. 

[LGR4GM]

36 minutes ago, JohnC said:

My impending fear is that the Sabres stay stuck on the road to mediocrity and a player like Tuch concludes that it is in his best interest to take an off-ramp to liberation. It's got to bother him that the team he was traded from wins the Cup and is a regular playoff participant while the team he goes to is plagued with organizational dysfunction that has perennially kept him on the couch watching playoff games of other teams. Careers are short and quickly pass by. It won't be surprising that when he has contract leverage to move on, that he will use it. And even a bigger fear is what happens when Dahlin gets fed up with his plight to the point where he says get me out of here! If Jack with a long-term contract could do it with wonderful results, then why can't I. 

Few people expect this perturbing owner to act out of desperation and order a flurry of action to demonstrate that he cares. What is the most bothersome is that there isn't even a demonstration of urgency to do what is required to do to become a relevant team. Cruising along when you are on the same road to failure is gesture to fans that I don't care.  I just don't understand this owner. 

Billionaires don't live in reality. They exist in a world of everyone rushing to please them, and their voice always being heard. 

It makes it very hard to identify weaknesses or have the self efficacy to address them. It's easier to be like "nah, I'm right" and since doing that has 0 consequences to them personally, it self fulfills. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Here we are 21 pages into this thread and the board continues to primarily focus on "fixing" the forwards. 

Other than a few passing references to Demko, I've almost no ideas on how to elevate our goaltending which has sucked since Ullmark left town.  It is ironic that Ottawa found a way to get Ullmark; Ottawa a franchise nearly as moribund as the Sabres, and immediately made the playoffs.

There has also been precious little on fixing the inept defense besides the reality that Byram is being traded as some point this summer.  I have seen discussions on getting Schneider (a 23 year old solid all around D with size) and he'd be a coup for the Sabres.  Also some chatter on trying to acquire Dobson.  However, not to much else.  

I admit I'm over simplifying.  Considering that the poor defense and goaltending are the primary reasons we missed the playoffs, I'm a little surprised a how overweighed on the forwards.   I also admit that there are significantly more options in the forward universe, but it seems we are looking in the wrong place to fix this mess.  

One goalie I can see Adams signing is Anton Forsberg.  He has spent the last 4 plus years in Ottawa, in a UFA, and in 142 games for the Sens he has a .905 save % and a 2.99 gaa.  Considering how poor Ottawa's D was most of the those seasons those are very good numbers.  He'd certainly compete for the starting job with UPL and Levi and at worst would be a huge upgrade as a backup over Reimer.   I would love to see a run at Demko.  

 

[JohninMinn.]

Without more testosterone the team will continue to flounder. 

[JustOutsideChicago]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Billionaires don't live in reality. They exist in a world of everyone rushing to please them, and their voice always being heard. 

It makes it very hard to identify weaknesses or have the self efficacy to address them. It's easier to be like "nah, I'm right" and since doing that has 0 consequences to them personally, it self fulfills. 

Sometimes I wonder what Pegula’s fellow owners think.
 

On one hand, they must be okay with one less team to worry about in terms of Stanley Cup competition. On the other hand, there is a revenue partner that apparently is okay with such an embarrassing status quo. Maybe they assume that relocation is coming soon? It just makes no sense.

Edited 5 hours ago by JustOutsideChicago

[LGR4GM]

30 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here we are 21 pages into this thread and the board continues to primarily focus on "fixing" the forwards. 

Other than a few passing references to Demko, I've almost no ideas on how to elevate our goaltending which has sucked since Ullmark left town.  It is ironic that Ottawa found a way to get Ullmark; Ottawa a franchise nearly as moribund as the Sabres, and immediately made the playoffs.

There has also been precious little on fixing the inept defense besides the reality that Byram is being traded as some point this summer.  I have seen discussions on getting Schneider (a 23 year old solid all around D with size) and he'd be a coup for the Sabres.  Also some chatter on trying to acquire Dobson.  However, not to much else.  

I admit I'm over simplifying.  Considering that the poor defense and goaltending are the primary reasons we missed the playoffs, I'm a little surprised a how overweighed on the forwards.   I also admit that there are significantly more options in the forward universe, but it seems we are looking in the wrong place to fix this mess.  

One goalie I can see Adams signing is Anton Forsberg.  He has spent the last 4 plus years in Ottawa, in a UFA, and in 142 games for the Sens he has a .905 save % and a 2.99 gaa.  Considering how poor Ottawa's D was most of the those seasons those are very good numbers.  He'd certainly compete for the starting job with UPL and Levi and at worst would be a huge upgrade as a backup over Reimer.   I would love to see a run at Demko.  

 

I've argued we need 3 new defenders. I think it's far harder for most to gauge defenders since you can't just use points.

For goaltending, I'd move on from UPL but don't have a solution in mind. 

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here we are 21 pages into this thread and the board continues to primarily focus on "fixing" the forwards. 

Other than a few passing references to Demko, I've almost no ideas on how to elevate our goaltending which has sucked since Ullmark left town.  It is ironic that Ottawa found a way to get Ullmark; Ottawa a franchise nearly as moribund as the Sabres, and immediately made the playoffs.

There has also been precious little on fixing the inept defense besides the reality that Byram is being traded as some point this summer.  I have seen discussions on getting Schneider (a 23 year old solid all around D with size) and he'd be a coup for the Sabres.  Also some chatter on trying to acquire Dobson.  However, not to much else.  

I admit I'm over simplifying.  Considering that the poor defense and goaltending are the primary reasons we missed the playoffs, I'm a little surprised a how overweighed on the forwards.   I also admit that there are significantly more options in the forward universe, but it seems we are looking in the wrong place to fix this mess.  

One goalie I can see Adams signing is Anton Forsberg.  He has spent the last 4 plus years in Ottawa, in a UFA, and in 142 games for the Sens he has a .905 save % and a 2.99 gaa.  Considering how poor Ottawa's D was most of the those seasons those are very good numbers.  He'd certainly compete for the starting job with UPL and Levi and at worst would be a huge upgrade as a backup over Reimer.   I would love to see a run at Demko.  

 

Levi's play has me slightly concerned because my idea would of been to move UPL to Philly with Muel for something and then get Demko for Quinn. Then sign  another solid backup that Levi could hop if Demko got hurt yet again or fell flat on his face. Now doubt has crept in a bit and I don't want to leave us after next season with a potential goalie room of Demko doing really bad or good then leaving, Levi being a major question mark and no one else.

 

As for defenders, its too much of a crapshoot as to what truly we can do to sure up the back end. We all have a similar idea of getting a defensive specialist but those aren't easy to come by nor pay for.

[dudacek]

I'm fine with Ras and JBD in 1D/6D 

I think Samuelsson and Clifton need to be upgraded in the 4/5 slots.

Replacing Samuelsson with someone who actually manages to play well in the role we gave to Samuelsson should be the team's 2nd-highest priority.

Clifton should be replaced with someone safer and tougher.

I'd keep Byram with Dahlin on the 1st-pair if it was up to me, but I think that ship has sailed. If traded, Byram must be replaced by a legitimate top 4 guy, preferably one who can eat hard minutes.

I'm OK with Johnson and Novikov getting a shot to beat out Bryson for 7D and being the first call-ups next year.

I wish someone other than Bryson was 7D, but Kevyn obviously disagrees

The highest priority on the blueline is figuring out what went wrong with Owen Power last year and fixing it.

Moves I'd be interested in:

• Byram for Andersson
• Picks/prospects for Schnieder and a cap dump
• Sign Gavrikov
• Samuelsson and picks/prospects for Pulock
• Clifton and picks/prospects for a cap casualty (meaning a better player on a bigger contract)

Other options worth looking into:

• Sign someone like Fabbro, Ceci, Lindgren, Perbix, Forbert, or Ruuta from the UFA pile
• Trade Jack Quinn for physical RD of similar age and stature

[DarthEbriate]

9 hours ago, sabremike said:

How can I put this in a tact manner:

Worrying about a Tuch extension is a moot point as the odds of signing Marner (essentially a pipe dream) are far better than Tuch signing an extension. Unless a biblical miracle occurs Tuch will be dealt at the deadline for a late round 2027 first before he can walk as a UFA. He is as good as gone and accepting that fact will make it far less painful when it actually happens.

You either extend Tuch this summer or you trade him with a year remaining so you can get a real return on him with a lineup player and picks. You just need to be ready to make him the highest paid forward on the roster (even if only by a little so he's breaking 8). If you aren't willing to do that, trade him to Vegas for a D-man, watch him replace Stone and rule the dark golden side of the galaxy as father and son....  Jackikin Eichwalker and Tuch Icewalker on the same line.

I put the emphasis on Tuch being lost as part of the hypothesized Bennett/Marchand/Cuylle additions. If you lose Tuch, then the Marchand addition is basically moot because Marchand is a rental who will provide diminishing games/offense and retire within 3 years. The window and reason to add Marchand is because you then have Cuylle-TNT-Marchand and Benson-Bennett-Tuch for two seasons to go wreck some teams.

[Thorny]

Tuch is such a perfect, Cinderella slipper microcosm of this failed build 

excellent player, great contract: no desire to win during this time

Age 30 and older player, ~ double the cost: it’s go time, boys 

[Thorny]

“upon closer inspection, jumping out of the window of a moving vehicle could be dangerous.” 

[thewookie1]

I'm offering Tuch 5x7.689mil to start 

[dudacek]

14 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I'm offering Tuch 5x7.689mil to start 

Timo Maier signed two years ago for 8X$8.8M coming off a 66-point season.

I don't think your offer is going to get it done.

[thewookie1]

39 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Timo Maier signed two years ago for 8X$8.8M coming off a 66-point season.

I don't think your offer is going to get it done.

Then as per usual our team is royally screwed

Trading Tuch is trading practically the only player with any love for this city that isn't purely based on transactional history.

Resigning at 9mil is overpay at the Nth degree for a 30 year old

 

God forbid I ever see my team be good and have players I like

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here we are 21 pages into this thread and the board continues to primarily focus on "fixing" the forwards. 

Other than a few passing references to Demko, I've almost no ideas on how to elevate our goaltending which has sucked since Ullmark left town.  It is ironic that Ottawa found a way to get Ullmark; Ottawa a franchise nearly as moribund as the Sabres, and immediately made the playoffs.

There has also been precious little on fixing the inept defense besides the reality that Byram is being traded as some point this summer.  I have seen discussions on getting Schneider (a 23 year old solid all around D with size) and he'd be a coup for the Sabres.  Also some chatter on trying to acquire Dobson.  However, not to much else.  

I admit I'm over simplifying.  Considering that the poor defense and goaltending are the primary reasons we missed the playoffs, I'm a little surprised a how overweighed on the forwards.   I also admit that there are significantly more options in the forward universe, but it seems we are looking in the wrong place to fix this mess.  

One goalie I can see Adams signing is Anton Forsberg.  He has spent the last 4 plus years in Ottawa, in a UFA, and in 142 games for the Sens he has a .905 save % and a 2.99 gaa.  Considering how poor Ottawa's D was most of the those seasons those are very good numbers.  He'd certainly compete for the starting job with UPL and Levi and at worst would be a huge upgrade as a backup over Reimer.   I would love to see a run at Demko.  

 

What do you think of this proposed trade with the Rangers? Byram for K'Andre Miller and Will Borgen. If we have to include a draft pick, as long as it is not a first round pick, and/or a medium prospect such as Rosen to get this deal done, I would be receptive to it.  What this trade will do for us is toughen up our blueline unit and make it more physical.  

I don't know who we should pursue for the goalie position but it is an imperative position to address. If KA goes into the season with UPL Ipenciled in as our #1 goalie, he should be arrested for felonious negligence. This position is the top issue for this franchise. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

What do you think of this proposed trade with the Rangers? Byram for K'Andre Miller and Will Borgen. If we have to include a draft pick, as long as it is not a first round pick, and/or a medium prospect such as Rosen to get this deal done, I would be receptive to it.  What this trade will do for us is toughen up our blueline unit and make it more physical.  

I don't know who we should pursue for the goalie position but it is an imperative position to address. If KA goes into the season with UPL Ipenciled in as our #1 goalie, he should be arrested for felonious negligence. This position is the top issue for this franchise. 

I think Byram for Miller is the start of a very possible trade.  I don't think they'll trade Borgen as they just extended him for 5 years @4.1.  The Rags top 2 D if they trade Miller to us would be Schneider and Fox.  They could use a second offensively gifted D like Byram to play with Borgen as part of their 2nd pair.  I think they like the 3rd pair of Soucy and Vaakanainen.  However, If the Rags need to balance out the money or achieve some cap savings, they could trade us Soucy (NTC) or Vaakanainen and then they'd have room to extend Zac Jones who actually average more PT per game last season with the Rags than Vaakanainen or Soucy.

It's funny that you posted this idea here, as I was just about to post something similar in the new Defense thread.

Edited 29 minutes ago by GASabresIUFAN

[dudacek]

I think we can all agree that Miller is bigger and Byram is more skilled.

Miller, statistically at least, hasn't shown to be any better than Byram in terms of his analytics, and despite his size he's not a banger.

Is the thinking here that he's cheaper and better fit in terms of usage?

Doesn't solve the handedness issue and I think Byram is the better player, but I could be argued into this as the basis of a trade.

[JohnC]

13 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think Byram for Miller is the start of a very possible trade.  I don't think they'll trade Borgen as they just extended him for 5 years @4.1.  The Rags top 2 D if they trade Miller to us would be Schneider and Fox.  They could use a second offensively gifted D like Byram to play with Borgen as part of their 2nd pair.  I think they like the 3rd pair of Soucy and Vaakanainen.  However, If the Rags need to balance out the money or achieve some cap savings, they could trade us Soucy (NTC) or Vaakanainen and then they'd have room to extend Zac Jones who actually average more PT per game last season with the Rags than Vaakanainen or Soucy.

It's funny that you posted this idea here, as I was just about to post something similar in the new Defense thread.

If we start to think alike I will be troubled and have to reconsider. 😀

I strongly agree with you that the blue line needs to be reconstituted and the goalie position needs to be addressed this off-season.  I still believe that the goalie position is the first priority. Counting on UPL to be the primary goalie is a loser’s bet.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

I think we can all agree that Miller is bigger and Byram is more skilled.

Miller, statistically at least, hasn't shown to be any better than Byram in terms of his analytics, and despite his size he's not a banger.

Is the thinking here that he's cheaper and better fit in terms of usage?

Doesn't solve the handedness issue and I think Byram is the better player, but I could be argued into this as the basis of a trade.

The issue isn’t which player is better. I agree with you that Bryan is the greater talent. However, it is essential that the blue line needs to be reconstituted in order to play a tougher brand of defense.