Casey Mittelstadt traded for Bowen Byram

[Believer]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

https://eprinkside.com/2024/02/02/trade-grades-for-the-2023-24-nhl-trade-deadline 

Adams seems to like taking gambles on injury prone players… Tuch, Samuelson, now Byram… 

[Thorny]

58 minutes ago, steveoath said:

Don’t like this in a vacuum. Talks about developing players then gets rid when they’ve developed. Sounds like RK snake oil. 
 

 

This part stings. What we we developing them FOR? To parlay into further pieces we can develop?

[seer775]

7 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

Oh no they traded their 15g scorer who is a career -40!
How will they ever win another game!

Over the past 2 seasons, his career best seasons… Casey is averaging 0.20 goals/game, Byram 0.19 g/gm.

Byram is averaging 37 games per season.

He'd be a great hockey player if he, yknow, played hockey.

But he doesn't. He's at the Doctor's office.

Our top scorer was lost to a broken 3rd pair Defensman.

Explain how that is good.

Edited March 6 by seer775

[mjd1001]

2 hours ago, oddoublee said:

i typically enjoy your takes - and still do! but i dont see it here. this team needs more veteran top 6 players - not less. the pipeline and krebs is all well and good - but they are not, nor guaranteed to be better than mitts. 

offensively, as of now, this team is worse off for the next 2 years (based on no additional significant moves being made, of course). 

Byram is so young, but 2 years ago he played great in the playoffs for Colorado. So, without concussions, he could be one of those good-to-very-good D-men at an accelerated age.  He has those worrying concussions, but when you watched his entire playoff run 2 years ago, he looked like he could be a star on the back end.

Plus he's a player. An actual Player who had at least one great playoff run individually, he's not another 'draft pick' that we can look forward to in a few years. He's a guy that has injury issues, but has had some great games as a young guy that we get to see play now.

And Mitts, is he better than Cozens or Tage?  To me, when everyone is healthy, I think ultimately he is the 3rd center on this team, which means he isn't going to be a guy that gets 1st line Power play time for the rest of his career. I guess Mitts "may" deserver $6-$7m per year, but I don't want to give that to a 3rd guy who is likely to get closer to 3rd line minutes. 

It also seems like there are a LOT of posters here criticizing the Sabres for thinking Cozens and Tage were better than they were, making the case they simply had 'career' years.....can't the same thinking be applied to Mitts this year? Difference is, Tage's 'career' year was almost 50 goals. Cozens was 30+ goals when he was 22. Mitts current season 'could' be a career year when he is on a 20 goal pace already at his age 25 season.

As for the D-group....Maybe Dahlin wears down with his heavy minutes. Power too. Samuelsson is injured all the time.  Maybe, MAYBE bringing in another young, highly regarded guy...you can reduce the minutes of everyone (spreading them out among the whole group) and make them all better/less likely to be injured.

 I'm trying to look at this in a positive way.  The negative thinking (I got negative in a BIG way with Cozens earlier this season) and the negativity of this board finally got to me about 2 weeks ago and I'm choosing to look at the positive side of things.

Edited March 6 by mjd1001

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, breese866 said:

who is the better payer of the two?

Right now? Objectively Casey 

[Night Train]

Left handed shot. 3.8 Mil next year. Lots of concussions. Risky. I'll give it a chance with Power and Samuelsson struggling too often. Weren't going to give him the contract he wanted, since they rushed to overpay several others. 

Welcome. Make some more trades for forwards who aren't soft. 

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Byram is so young, but 2 years ago he played great in the playoffs for Colorado. So, without concussions, he could be one of those good-to-very-good D-men at an accelerated age.  He has those worrying concussions, but when you watched his entire playoff run 2 years ago, he looked like he could be a star on the back end.

Plus Mitts, is he better than Cozens or Tage?  To me, when everyone is healthy, I think ultimately he is the 3rd center on this team, which means he isn't going to be a guy that gets 1st line Power play time for the rest of his career. I guess Mitts "may" deserver $6-$7m per year, but I don't want to give that to a 3rd guy who is likely to get closer to 3rd line minutes. 

 I'm trying to look at this in a positive way.  The negative thinking (I got negative in a BIG way with Cozens earlier this season) and the negativity of this board finally got to me about 2 weeks ago and I'm choosing to look at the positive side of things.

This take isn’t even grounded in statistical reality 

Even if Casey was our third best C, if he’s our third best F, he’s not getting “3rd line minutes”. Thats not how the nhl works

i appreciate the factual statement that you are specifically taking one side by choice, but when you lock yourself onto a side regardless of merit you’ll have some takes that shoot for the moon yet fall among the stars 

Edited March 6 by Thorny

[Doohickie]

Okie and Girgs

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This take isn’t even grounded in statistical reality 

Even if Casey was our third best C, if he’s our third best F, he’s not getting “3rd line minutes”. Thats not how the nhl works

Welcome to SabresSpace, the site where everything's made up and the facts don't matter. 

 

[SabreFinn]

We got a real hockey trade! GMKA can't be done yet if he starts with a move like this.

[mjd1001]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This take isn’t even grounded in statistical reality 

Even if Casey was our third best C, if he’s our third best F, he’s not getting “3rd line minutes”. Thats not how the nhl works

You are so sure going forward he would be getting more ice time than both Tage AND Cozens?  Again for my other post, I don't think Mitts is a game changer....so I'm willing to look at how this plays out.

Edited March 6 by mjd1001

[Mango]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

His numbers apparently torpedoed on the right 

To this point lets not forget the Owen Power gets a lot of protection from this staff. When Ryan Johnson first came in they said that he would not be getting work on the PP because we already have Dahlin and Power. So if Byram struggles on the right side I don't anticipate any/many adjustments being made to get him on the left. 
 

Quote

"He could be running our power play, easily, because he’s got more than enough skill to do it. And he could run a power play in Rochester, but that isn’t his path to the NHL, because we have Dahlin and Power. They’re going to be running it for a long time. So it’s going to be being an elite defender, being a transitional puck-moving defenseman, and getting us on offense 5-on-5 and being a strong penalty killer," said Appert.

This came from Appert, but would be shocked if Appert unilaterally made the decision not to play RJ on PP and then tell the media that it was because of the big club. That is a plan that 100% comes from the GM/HC. 

[xzy89c1]

this is a good trade. Was hoping for it. Byrom >>>>> Mitts.

[Thorny]

57 minutes ago, Weave said:

PA has been right all along.  Its about a preservation timeline.

I came up with that theory lol

[seer775]

Just now, mjd1001 said:

You are so sure going forward he would be getting more ice time than both Tage AND Cozens?

Skinner - TT - Tuch

Quinn - Mitts - Cozens

This is how it was supposed to go.

[jad1]

11 minutes ago, inkman said:

 

So what is Byram's role on this team?  PP1 QB? PP2 QB?  PK1?  Is he better than the two #1 overall picks the Sabres have on the roster, who can't be teamed together?

He's the 6th puck-moving defenseman on the roster.  Does a team really need that many puck moving defensman?

He's 22.  The 5th defenseman on the roster who is under 25.  The Sabres will be the youngest team in the league next year, again.

This roster is not built with a purpose (players filling roles that support a system).  It's just a collection of repetitive high-end skill sets thrown together in hopes that "development" will result in winning.  Problem is, nobody has any clue what this team is trying to develop into.

[mjd1001]

Just now, seer775 said:

Skinner - TT - Tuch

Quinn - Mitts - Cozens

This is how it was supposed to go.

Actually, I love having Cozens at wing with Mitts, but it seems like every time they try him on Wing, he goes back to center pretty quickly. Trust me, I have been one of the biggest people on this board pushing for Cozens on wing.  I just looks like, long term, they want Cozens centering Quinn and Peterka.

[Carmel Corn]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I came up with that theory lol

Missed the discussion, what do you guys mean by a "preservation timeline"???

[Thorny]

Just now, mjd1001 said:

You are so sure going forward he would be getting more ice time than both Tage AND Cozens?

Is Byram going to get more than Dahlin and Power? Casey would have been among the team leaders in I’ve time regardless of Tage and Cozens. You aren’t ever getting the limited minutes the “3rd line C” connotation implies: if you are a top forward you are among the leaders in minutes.

[PerreaultForever]

Well, I'm not surprised. Say that off the top. 

The Cozens/Tage contracts made Mitts unsignable since he's outplayed them and thus likely wanted that kind of money and they weren't going to do it, period. I personally would have explored trading Thompson first, but one of the three was definitely out of the mix so Adams went with the unsigned guy and that's that. 

Now, Byram. He's a pretty good puck moving guy who plays under the shadow of Makar so MAYBE he hasn't been able to show his full potential. Having said that though, he'll be in the same spot with Dahlin here. The injury history is troubling and although 6'1" is adequate, he's only 190 lbs at age 22 and that imo is too light to be a solid D man. That's Cliffy's weight and Cliffy's short. imo you want your D 200 lbs. plus. This, imo, is not the player we need. 

Having said that, he's better than Jokiharju and he does upgrade our D so with little in the prospect D pool I can't fault this move entirely. It's a risk, but it does give us a better D than we had. 

What I really suspect however, is that this is just kicking the can down the road in terms of free agents. Byram will be an RFA after next season so (assuming he performs well) we will be in the exact same point again as it'll be Power, Dahlin and Byram and how much can top 3 D make just like Cozens, Thompson, Mitts and how much money do top 3 centers make. Strong possibility we will be deadline dealing Byram next year. 

So,

1) did KA have any choice? Probably not. One of the 3 had to go.

2) is our D better? Yes. Slightly.

3) is our team better? No. We now definitely need a 3C in free agency or by another trade. 

But at least he did something. 

 

[seer775]

6 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Actually, I love having Cozens at wing with Mitts, but it seems like every time they try him on Wing, he goes back to center pretty quickly. Trust me, I have been one of the biggest people on this board pushing for Cozens on wing.  I just looks like, long term, they want Cozens centering Quinn and Peterka.

Ok. What's the bottom six now?

Greenway - Krebs - uhh

Umm - Uhh - ...

--

The D is gonna be 

Dahlin - Joker

Power - Bryson

RJ - Clifton

Mule and Byram are made of glass. Maybe we'll get a season out of both of them combined (if we're lucky).

That's a recipe for 32nd if there ever was one.

Edited March 6 by seer775

[SABRES 0311]

So if I’m interpreting the comments correctly, GMKA is an ***hole.

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

Missed the discussion, what do you guys mean by a "preservation timeline"???

I’m not sure if I’m willing to even go there anymore before going to “straight ineptitude”.

But I’ve long hypothesized Adams chose the plan upon arrival specifically based on which modus operandi would result in the longest runway, with the least expectations

how many times have we heard the “Young team” excuse this year? How many times have I said that’s nothing to write home about, because being the “youngest team in hockey” is a freebie accomplishment? ANYONE can do that. Is this deal not a re-upping of that punt-happy timeline? Why can’t we be good NOW

Edited March 6 by Thorny

[mjd1001]

31 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Is Byram going to get more than Dahlin and Power? Casey would have been among the team leaders in I’ve time regardless of Tage and Cozens. You aren’t ever getting the limited minutes the “3rd line C” connotation implies: if you are a top forward you are among the leaders in minutes.

I'm guessing here, but long term, I think the goal would be for Byram and Power to get about 18-19 minutes even strenght per game.  They seem to want to use Power on the PK, so Byram can take the role of 2nd unit PP Qb.  They both end up with 20-22 minutes per game that way, HOPEFULLY bringing Dahlin down to the 23-24 range (he is over 25 now)

Edited March 6 by mjd1001

[oddoublee]

6 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Byram is so young, but 2 years ago he played great in the playoffs for Colorado. So, without concussions, he could be one of those good-to-very-good D-men at an accelerated age.  He has those worrying concussions, but when you watched his entire playoff run 2 years ago, he looked like he could be a star on the back end.

Pluse he's a player. An actual Player who had at least one great playoff run individually, he's not another 'draft pick' that we can look forward to in a few years. He's a guy that has injury issues, but has had some great games as a young guy that we get to see play now.

Plus Mitts, is he better than Cozens or Tage?  To me, when everyone is healthy, I think ultimately he is the 3rd center on this team, which means he isn't going to be a guy that gets 1st line Power play time for the rest of his career. I guess Mitts "may" deserver $6-$7m per year, but I don't want to give that to a 3rd guy who is likely to get closer to 3rd line minutes. 

It also seems like there are a LOT of posters here criticizing the Sabres for thinking Cozens and Tage were better than they were, making the case they simply had 'career' years.....can't the same thinking be applied to Mitts this year? Difference is, Tage's 'career' year was almost 50 goals. Cozens was 30+ goals when he was 22. Mitts current season 'could' be a career year when he is on a 20 goal pace already at his age 25 season.

As for the D-group....Maybe Dahlin wears down with his heavy minutes. Power too. Samuelsson is injured all the time.  Maybe, MAYBE bringing in another young, highly regarded guy...you can reduce the minutes of everyone (spreading them out among the whole group) and make them all better/less likely to be injured.

 I'm trying to look at this in a positive way.  The negative thinking (I got negative in a BIG way with Cozens earlier this season) and the negativity of this board finally got to me about 2 weeks ago and I'm choosing to look at the positive side of things.

all for the positive take - it is not all gloom and doom. cozens and tage are good - although i am not as high on cozens at center - not higher than casey at center at the very least. 

in a nutshell, that is where we differ. I think Casey is our 2 C - and with him we are still a C short. 

Now if we take away the C's and the W's in this argument (as mitts and cozens can play both at a top 6 level) - we are still short a legit top 6 player. 

At D, feel our biggest problem (pre Byram even) was their age. Very young - and always thought it would mature into a good group in a couple years. Personally feel our top 6 and depth in Rochester/Juniors is overrated, and is now weaker. 

Legit Top 6 - Tage, Cozens, Tuch, Peterka and possibly JJ (candidly, we do not know yet with him, it is a guess). Skinner is a 3rd line winger on a good team - getting more than 15 minutes, if, and only if your team is losing going into the 3rd period. Greenway is bottom 6. Krebs is bottom 6. Benson is bottom 6, with top 6 potential in a couple years - we are thinner than people think at Forward.