Thorny Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said: To me, a superstar is a guy who can flip a game on his own and do that often. They elevate the players around them no matter who those players are as well. Can Pettersson do that on his own or does he need the supporting cast idk. I think it's too early to say he's a superstar. In terms of definition, I'd ask you this. Is there a current Sabre who you would call a superstar? I’m sorry I mean this with all due respect as I’m just singling this post out as an example: this meme absolutely needs to die a long, slow death. Did I say slow? I meant quick. Get it outa here. *no one can do it without a supporting cast* that is not part of the criteria for determining a superstar Wayne Gretzky didn’t win a cup once he left the oilers McDavid doesn’t win anything and he plays with *another superstar* Eichel wasn’t counted on in Vegas TO be their best player but that didn’t stop him from BEING their best player. I don’t know if you need a superstar to win. I do know you need to support your superstar to win Edited October 20, 2023 by Thorny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Curt said: By your definition, no, definitely not. Dahlin and Thompson are closest but need more consistency. How many superstars are there in the league then, like 5? Thats fine, it’s a word without a set definition. He isn’t a superstar then, just a star. Guy who can do it on his own without a supporting cast? the list starts and ends with the greatest goalie to ever exist in the history of planet earth, at the one position that can, on it’s best day temporarily be an exception that proves the rule, and even he lost, in the end 1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said: Ya, not many. It is a term I personally do not hand out easily. Eichel, for example, isn't one. For all that generational talk he hasn't become a superstar and likely it never fits for him. Star yes, all star yes, superstar no. Same holds for Dahlin as you said. leagues and tv networks (and some fans) like to use the term more generously for marketing obviously. You should watch him play 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Thorny said: Guy who can do it on his own without a supporting cast? the list starts and ends with the greatest goalie to ever exist in the history of planet earth, at the one position that can, on it’s best day temporarily be an exception that proves the rule, and even he lost, in the end You should watch him play Hasek was a superstar. No question. Perreault was arguably a superstar, but I could see an argument against that too. That's it for Sabres. Right now the league has one superstar in McDavid. Two fading old superstars in Crosby and Ovechkin and one possible future superstar in Bedard. There's another tier of players that you can make an argument for and they are all stars, but clear cut superstars? Highly subjective and I'd say no as my criteria for the term is extremely high. Others would lower that bar and include them. Pettersson might be in that group. Question, were the Sedins superstars? Is Matthews a superstar? For you. 1 hour ago, Thorny said: Guy who can do it on his own without a supporting cast? I didn't mean win it all with that. But dominate games or change the course of them yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted October 20, 2023 Report Share Posted October 20, 2023 58 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said: I didn't mean win it all with that. But dominate games or change the course of them yes. It’s just so subjective that you’ll never get a sizable group of people to agree on a definition. Dominate games or change the course of them? With what kind of consistency? Tage Thompson can dominate games or change the course of them. Dahlin can too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Curt said: It’s just so subjective that you’ll never get a sizable group of people to agree on a definition. Dominate games or change the course of them? With what kind of consistency? Tage Thompson can dominate games or change the course of them. Dahlin can too. Well ya, that would be the subjective element as to where you draw the line. How often they do that. I agree, it's an impossible and eternal argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Curt said: It’s just so subjective that you’ll never get a sizable group of people to agree on a definition. Dominate games or change the course of them? With what kind of consistency? Tage Thompson can dominate games or change the course of them. Dahlin can too. Matthew Barnaby won us a playoff game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Thorny said: Guy who can do it on his own without a supporting cast? the list starts and ends with the greatest goalie to ever exist in the history of planet earth, at the one position that can, on it’s best day temporarily be an exception that proves the rule, and even he lost, in the end I may be drinking, but this made me a little emotional. This really sums up Hasek perfectly and I miss watching him. One thing that I regret more than not having the current generation get to watch him is that he never won a Cup for us. A damn shame. But we can all feel blessed for watching him play though. Truly Otherworldly. The only thing that nearly looked like Hasek recently was that ridiculous save Subban made last year. Think about that and realize it happened every game. Edited October 21, 2023 by kas23 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 1 hour ago, kas23 said: I may be drinking, but this made me a little emotional. This really sums up Hasek perfectly and I miss watching him. One thing that I regret more than not having the current generation get to watch him is that he never won a Cup for us. A damn shame. But we can all feel blessed for watching him play though. Truly Otherworldly. The only thing that nearly looked like Hasek recently was that ridiculous save Subban made last year. Think about that and realize it happened every game. Also makes me think if only we'd had a Hasek in the 70s we could have had a dynasty. Not even a Hasek, just our own Parent at the time. We'd at least have won one cup (if not more) rather than those bullies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 17 hours ago, Thorny said: I’m sorry I mean this with all due respect as I’m just singling this post out as an example: this meme absolutely needs to die a long, slow death. Did I say slow? I meant quick. Get it outa here. *no one can do it without a supporting cast* that is not part of the criteria for determining a superstar Wayne Gretzky didn’t win a cup once he left the oilers McDavid doesn’t win anything and he plays with *another superstar* Eichel wasn’t counted on in Vegas TO be their best player but that didn’t stop him from BEING their best player. I don’t know if you need a superstar to win. I do know you need to support your superstar to win The Oilers DID win a cup after Wayne left. In fact, it may have been the year he left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 44 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said: The Oilers DID win a cup after Wayne left. In fact, it may have been the year he left. This is correct. It actually supports what Thorny was saying. No player can drive a team all on their own. Gretzky was incredible, but his supporting cast was so good that they won the Cup without him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 13 minutes ago, Curt said: This is correct. It actually supports what Thorny was saying. No player can drive a team all on their own. Gretzky was incredible, but his supporting cast was so good that they won the Cup without him. It’s an insult to Gretzky’s supporting cast to call them a supporting cast. That team had 6 HoFers not counting Gretzky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 26 minutes ago, Curt said: This is correct. It actually supports what Thorny was saying. No player can drive a team all on their own. Gretzky was incredible, but his supporting cast was so good that they won the Cup without him. That's my point. 10 minutes ago, #freejame said: It’s an insult to Gretzky’s supporting cast to call them a supporting cast. That team had 6 HoFers not counting Gretzky. Exactly. I think that Oiler team would have won those cups even without Wayne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, kas23 said: I may be drinking, but this made me a little emotional. This really sums up Hasek perfectly and I miss watching him. One thing that I regret more than not having the current generation get to watch him is that he never won a Cup for us. A damn shame. But we can all feel blessed for watching him play though. Truly Otherworldly. The only thing that nearly looked like Hasek recently was that ridiculous save Subban made last year. Think about that and realize it happened every game. Yup. Completely formative for this young Sabres fan at the time. It’s funny to think I almost certainly saw the best Sabre I (or maybe anyone) will ever see when I was only around age 6-14, but thinking about it, that probably added to the..utter magic more than anything. You couldn’t fail to appreciate the brilliance even as a child- because he was visibly transcendent. Stats, advanced or otherwise, need not apply. I have memories of what in my mind is the literal birth of the nickname “Dominator”, as he made a particularly nice save and some fans held up a sign in the crowd over a bannister. This memory cannot possibly be true - but all good legends deserve embellishment 1 hour ago, Sabres Fan in NS said: The Oilers DID win a cup after Wayne left. In fact, it may have been the year he left. Exactly Gretzky is admittedly sort of an extreme example in that the supporting cast was legendary, but it’s extreme in the sense also that Wayne was the greatest ever, so it goes both ways and fits as well as any example Edited October 21, 2023 by Thorny 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Thorny said: Yup. Completely formative for this young Sabres fan at the time. It’s funny to think I almost certainly saw the best Sabre I (or maybe anyone) will ever see when I was only around age 6-14, but thinking about it, that probably added to the..utter magic more than anything. You couldn’t fail to appreciate the brilliance even as a child- because he was visibly transcendent. Stats, advanced or otherwise, need not apply. I have memories of what in my mind is the literal birth of the nickname “Dominator”, as he made a particularly nice save and some fans held up a sign in the crowd over a bannister. This memory cannot possibly be true - but all good legends deserve embellishment Exactly Gretzky is admittedly sort of an extreme example in that the supporting cast was legendary, but it’s extreme in the sense also that Wayne was the greatest ever, so it goes both ways and fits as well as any example Not sure of the exact origin of that nickname, but remember reading an SI article about Dom from that timeperiod. The SI writer was bound and determined to make "the Blank Czech" a thing. Fortunately it didn't stick. The Dominator was too perfect a handle. But reading that article was like reading a @matter2003 post about Zach Benson. Just give it up, dude. It's not happening. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 I’m watching Ottawa vs Detroit. They showed a shot of Yzerman and Kris Draper watching the game. TSN’s Gord Miller brought up Draper’s debuts in the NHL, AHL and OHL. He scored a goal in his first game in all three leagues, but in that order. NHL, AHL and OHL. He was with the Canadian National team for a couple of years then played a few games in the NHL scoring in his debut. He was sent down to the AHL and scored in that debut. He then finished the season in the OHL where he once again scored in his debut. Can’t see that happening again, but some Euro 18/19 year old might. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, French Collection said: I’m watching Ottawa vs Detroit. They showed a shot of Yzerman and Kris Draper watching the game. TSN’s Gord Miller brought up Draper’s debuts in the NHL, AHL and OHL. He scored a goal in his first game in all three leagues, but in that order. NHL, AHL and OHL. He was with the Canadian National team for a couple of years then played a few games in the NHL scoring in his debut. He was sent down to the AHL and scored in that debut. He then finished the season in the OHL where he once again scored in his debut. Can’t see that happening again, but some Euro 18/19 year old might. Lol: “Drafted 62nd overall in the 1989 NHL Entry Draft by the original Winnipeg Jets, Draper did not see much NHL action in his early years. He is a rarity in that he played in the American Hockey League (AHL) and NHL before playing junior in the OHL. After playing just 20 NHL games for the Jets in four seasons since he was drafted, he was traded to the Detroit Red Wings in 1993 in exchange for $1.” 1 dollar, Bob Edited October 21, 2023 by Thorny 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Thorny said: Lol: “Drafted 62nd overall in the 1989 NHL Entry Draft by the original Winnipeg Jets, Draper did not see much NHL action in his early years. He is a rarity in that he played in the American Hockey League (AHL) and NHL before playing junior in the OHL. After playing just 20 NHL games for the Jets in four seasons since he was drafted, he was traded to the Detroit Red Wings in 1993 in exchange for $1.” 1 dollar, Bob The guy had a solid career and helped win some Cups, what a bargain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 1 minute ago, French Collection said: The guy had a solid career and helped win some Cups, what a bargain. Definitely I can’t be the only one that thinks of the boarding he received first, ala immediate word association when someone says “Draper” kind of unfortunate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 30 minutes ago, Thorny said: Definitely I can’t be the only one that thinks of the boarding he received first, ala immediate word association when someone says “Draper” kind of unfortunate Claude Lemieux was competitive but dirty, he crossed the line there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 Sens and Wings playing with a sense of urgency in this one. I just hope there are no loser points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 22 minutes ago, French Collection said: Sens and Wings playing with a sense of urgency in this one. I just hope there are no loser points. Ottawa was the best team in the first, Detroit in the second. Both are playing better hockey than we are - at this point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 5-2 Detroit with 11 minutes to go. Some nasty moments, the DeBrincat issue probably is the spark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 Korpisalo has 5 GA on 21 shots. 3 PP goals for the Wings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 They move the puck very quickly on the PP but also have a solid net front. Korpisalo was pretty screened on a few of those plays. Detroit looks pretty balanced and pushed back on the physical stuff Ottawa tried to initiate. Some of their off season moves look like they are working for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted October 21, 2023 Report Share Posted October 21, 2023 I’m now watching Coyotes vs Ducks. Ducks have Luneau and Mintyukov on D, two 19 year olds. Their D is young with Lacombe at 22 and Drysdale at 21. Lyubushkin is partnered with Mintyukov, a high scoring, riverboat gambler style Dman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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