Backup goaltending: what do we really think about the situation in the crease?

[The Jokeman]

I mentioned it in the starting goalie. I'd go after Carter Hart to start if the asking price isn't too much. I mentioned Comrie, a Russian prospect and 2nd or 3rd. It might be more than value but Hart is still young and a RFA after the season so at very least can have and his rights for two or more seasons while Levi develops. I'd see Hart start 40-50 games, Levi 20-30 and UPL whatever's left or an injury replacement.

Edited July 2, 2023 by The Jokeman

[DarthEbriate]

4 hours ago, Buffalonill said:

1 injury away from being a bottom team in the league if levi gets injured.

Think about it 

The team will play better defense as a unit this season. Greenway in the lineup for Olofsson (unless VO remains to cover for Quinn and PP time) and swapping Bryson's games out for Clifton. With everyone else gaining a year of knowledge, cohesion, and the realization that offense-only will only get you through January.

But yes... there's no Craig Anderson security blanket. If UPL doesn't take a good step forward and Levi gets injured for any amount of time... we're picking top 12 again. And that will feel like a failure (even if 2024-25 is a meteoric NJD 22-23 rise).

[Pimlach]

1.  No - don't think we should risk a playoff season with Levi and UPL/Comrie 

2.  Yes - we need to should add a proven NHL goalie that has had some success.  Get out of the bargain bin Kevyn.  

3.  I think the term "a fair amount" might be more than the survey question specifies, and I stop short of calling it "whatever it takes".  I fall in between.  

I think we need a  proven goalie to be brought in.  Someone who can be a 1B, unless he actually plays like the  1A (blasphemy).   Look at adding him on a 2-3 year contract.   

Getting the dollar value of the contract to fit the salary cap's projected plan-line (which none of us really knows) is the hard part.  

Tom Petty said that the waiting is the hardest part.  He is right.  

Edited July 3, 2023 by Pimlach

[JohnC]

17 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

1.  No - don't think we should risk a playoff season with Levi and UPL/Comrie 

2.  Yes - we need to should add a proven NHL goalie that has had some success.  Get out of the bargain bin Kevyn.  

3.  I think the term "a fair amount" might be more than the survey question specifies, and I stop short of calling it "whatever it takes".  I fall in between.  

I think we need a  proven goalie to be brought in.  Someone who can be a 1B, unless he actually plays like the our 1A (blasphemy).   Look at adding him on a 2-3 year contract.   

Getting the dollar value of the contract to fit the salary cap's projected plan-line (which none of us really knows) is the hard part.  

Tom Petty said that the waiting is the hardest part.  He is right.  

What goalie do you think is available and would fit our needs? 

[Pimlach]

9 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What goalie do you think is available and would fit our needs? 

Some options are gone.

I don't think Hellebyuck (sp?) is affordable (since Levi is the plan) and a long term deal seems to be a thing for him.  The guy in Nashville, similar thing - cost/term. 

Jarry from Pitts, Hart from Philly - they both have proven themselves beyond UPL/Comrie.   That level of goalie should fit the timeframe and the budget of KA.  

KA's past tendencies concerning goalies has been to stick with the lowest cost options.   So its probably going to be UPL as the #2 if I had to bet.  

[HumanSlinky39]

I think in an ideal world Levi isn't starting more than 45 games and we bring in a solid vet to supplement him. That said, I do think he is capable of carrying the water if needed based on what I saw at the end of the season, would just prefer he didn't have to yet. I'm not overly confident in a UPL/Comrie tandem with him. But, if we are unable to land someone, I'm at least hoping the improved D ahead of them will help some. I don't think either of them was particularly good last season, but I also don't think it's all on them.

Edited July 3, 2023 by HumanSlinky39

[JohnC]

59 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Some options are gone.

I don't think Hellebyuck (sp?) is affordable (since Levi is the plan) and a long term deal seems to be a thing for him.  The guy in Nashville, similar thing - cost/term. 

Jarry from Pitts, Hart from Philly - they both have proven themselves beyond UPL/Comrie.   That level of goalie should fit the timeframe and the budget of KA.  

KA's past tendencies concerning goalies has been to stick with the lowest cost options.   So its probably going to be UPL as the #2 if I had to bet.  

I just don't think based on how he has conducted business during his tenure that he is interested in shedding assets for goalies that he doesn't believe are either worth the cost or at a level that isn't, as he perceives it, better than what we currently have. 

I agree with your last sentence. It is a comment that gets @GASabresIUFAN very agitated and riled up.

Edited July 3, 2023 by JohnC

[Pimlach]

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I just don't think based on how he has conducted business during his tenure that he is interested in shedding assets for goalies that he doesn't believe are either worth the cost or at a level that aren't, as he perceives it, better than what we currently have. 

I agree with your last sentence. It is a comment that gets @GASabresIUFAN very agitated and riled up.

I will probably be agitated with him.   

[dudacek]

29 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Some options are gone.

I don't think Hellebyuck (sp?) is affordable (since Levi is the plan) and a long term deal seems to be a thing for him.  The guy in Nashville, similar thing - cost/term. 

Jarry from Pitts, Hart from Philly - they both have proven themselves beyond UPL/Comrie.   That level of goalie should fit the timeframe and the budget of KA.  

Just so we’re clear, you know that neither of those guys is a backup, or even a 1B when it comes to the NHL goalie pecking order, right?

Jarry is 7th in starts over the past 3 years and is the league’s 12th highest-paid goalie. Hart is 16th and 26th and will be due for a big raise next year.

These are  bona fide NHL starters by their contracts and track records.

Nothing wrong with saying those should be Buffalo’s targets, but this is the backup goalie thread and if you want to acquire them you will not be paying backup goalie prices.

It feels like I am seeing a lot of “we just need a guy to break in Levi” and then throwing out names of expensive players who would be the undisputed starters for half the league.

 

[Pimlach]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Just so we’re clear, you know that neither of those guys is a backup, or even a 1B when it comes to the NHL goalie pecking order, right?

Jarry is 7th in starts over the past 3 years and is the league’s 12th highest-paid goalie. Hart is 16th and 26th and will be due for a big raise next year.

These are  bona fide NHL starters by their contracts and track records.

Nothing wrong with saying those should be Buffalo’s targets, but this is the backup goalie thread and if you want to acquire them you will not be paying backup goalie prices.

It feels like I am seeing a lot of “we just need a guy to break in Levi” and then throwing out names of expensive players who would be the undisputed starters for half the league.

 

Yup I know.  Which is why I stated this in response to the survey. 

Someone who can be a 1B, unless he actually plays like the 1A (blasphemy).   

[JohnC]

26 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I will probably be agitated with him.   

You are one member of a large crowd. It seems to get larger by the day. I'm marching to a different tune. Most people would say I'm out of step. 🙃

[GASabresIUFAN]

I guess the question comes down to what people feel is a reasonable number of games played for a rookie goaltender with 7 games of pro/NHL experience in his first NHL season.

The comparable players are Helle and Oettinger.  Helle played 2 college seasons and put up numbers very similar to Levi.  In Helle's 1st two pro seasons, he played (and dominated) mostly in the AHL (58 games in year 1 and 30 games in year 2).  Helle played 26 NHL games in year 2 and then 56 in year 3 at 23 years old.

Oettinger played 3 college seasons. In year 1 as a pro at 21 years of age he played 38 AHL games and 2 NHL playoffs games.  In year 2, he played 29 NHL games. In  year 3 he played 10 AHL and 48 NHL.  At 24 (year 4) he played 62 games for the Stars.

I think we need to approach this season saying 50% of the season of Levi in goal would be a good result.  That, therefore, means we need a 1B.  We don't have a 1B.  Instead, we have 3 marginal backups.  Levi is 21 by the way.

Edited July 3, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Brawndo]

Jarry just signed an extension with Pittsburgh, he is not going anywhere. 
 

The Wild are desperate for cap space, Gustavasson reportedly wants an Oettinger type bridge deal which was 4 million AAV.  They have 7.3 million left with 3 RFAs to sign. Would MAF waive fo come here for a year. Probably not as he doesn’t want to move his family,

Samsonov and Murray in Toronto. Murray already said no once and is injured alot. 
 

Are they better than Comrie/UPL?
 

Here is what Chad DeDomincis had to say about the Sabres search for a goalie

 

Speaking of which, they’ve yet to address goaltenders at the NHL level. I have said throughout the offseason that my understanding is that they would like to improve at that position, but if it made sense for them. A source told me that they spent time yesterday exploring the goaltender market and will continue to do so over the next few days.

The free agent market dried up on them quickly, so the obvious route to improvement is via trade. In my opinion, for Adams to succeed this offseason they need to do something in goal. It sounds as though they’re going to continue to work away at it, but won’t overpay for something. 

Currently on the NHL roster they have Devon Levi, Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen, and Eric Comrie. The thought was that Comrie may be sent down to the NHL, but that path appears to be blocked now with three goaltenders occupying that spot.

It would say it’s close to a 0% chance that Adams has the desire to have his team rotate three goaltenders again next season. Therefore, once again, it would appear something has to give there.

The trade market in the NHL hasn’t got underway yet. There are a handful of players that are going to be moved throughout the league. Now that the free agent period is over, I wonder if we start to see that open up in the next few days

[thewookie1]

If Gibson and Henrique could be had for UPL, Jokiharju and Olofsson I'd do it. But only if Ryan Miller tells us Gibson is salvageable.

[Freeezo]

8 hours ago, Taro T said:

Very much this.

Really disappointing that Varlamov stayed on the Island.  (Yes, we all knew he wanted to be there, but still was really hoping Adam's would show interest & convince him he could live on Grand Island.  It would be ALMOST identical but with less traffic and fewer malls.)

Personally believe one of UPL or Comrie MAY be good enough, but it is by no means a given and somebody like Varlamov would be nearly ideal as a 1B that could be a 1 in a pinch. 

Adams has had a decent off-season so far.  Still hoping he can make it a great off-season.  But not fully hopeful. 

This is what I saw too. The islanders game this year we won 1-0 Varlamov was great. The one goal was a fluke. I didn't like the 4 year contract the islanders just gave him though

[GASabresIUFAN]

7 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

When Marty Biron started really saying and analyzing the issues with UPLs game it really opened my eyes to exactly what his issues are. 

Marty is not a fan.  He kind of poisoned the well for me.

[Brawndo]

 

[JohnC]

6 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Marty is not a fan.  He kind of poisoned the well for me.

I have often heard Marty comment on our goalies. As you point out, he's not a fan of his. The issue becomes does the GM believe that the big goalie can improve on his weaknesses. The major focus was coming into camp better conditioned and quicker. We shall see how this works out. 

[dudacek]

10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Marty is not a fan.  He kind of poisoned the well for me.

However, he is a fan of Comrie’s.

Does that give you any hope there?

[GASabresIUFAN]

26 minutes ago, dudacek said:

However, he is a fan of Comrie’s.

Does that give you any hope there?

My hopium was that we wouldn’t take the risk of 3 inexperienced goalies.  Could Comrie comeback health and be the goalie he was that one season? Sure, I guess.  

[Thorny]

Capable? Yes

My number one thing for the wish list however is adding a guy who is much more likely capable of producing the desired output at backup 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorny]

16 hours ago, JohnC said:

What goalie do you think is available and would fit our needs? 

Is your opinion that if a fan, without KAs vast array of contacts, can’t provide the perfect name that none were available? Do you yourself believe there are simply no good options available? If that’s the case, does it not stand to follow that, if the goaltending output is again sub par, we can’t blame Adams because there weren’t reasonable options available anyways?

Edited July 3, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorny]

15 hours ago, dudacek said:

Just so we’re clear, you know that neither of those guys is a backup, or even a 1B when it comes to the NHL goalie pecking order, right?

Jarry is 7th in starts over the past 3 years and is the league’s 12th highest-paid goalie. Hart is 16th and 26th and will be due for a big raise next year.

These are  bona fide NHL starters by their contracts and track records.

Nothing wrong with saying those should be Buffalo’s targets, but this is the backup goalie thread and if you want to acquire them you will not be paying backup goalie prices.

It feels like I am seeing a lot of “we just need a guy to break in Levi” and then throwing out names of expensive players who would be the undisputed starters for half the league.

 

What’s the goal of the thread? To prove it can’t be done? Actually asking. Maybe, to be convinced of options because you aren’t seeing any?

I believe this to be your subtext, correct me if I’m wrong 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorny]

15 hours ago, JohnC said:

You are one member of a large crowd. It seems to get larger by the day. I'm marching to a different tune. Most people would say I'm out of step. 🙃

Not all all. “Fine with Levi/UPL” “not fine with Levi/UPL” is officially this summer’s “Team Jacob/Team Edward” on Sabres twitter and elsewhere 

[dudacek]

47 minutes ago, Thorny said:

What’s the goal of the thread? To prove it can’t be done? Actually asking. Maybe, to be convinced of options because you aren’t seeing any?

I believe this to be your subtext, correct me if I’m wrong 

The goal is to get a read on the general board feeling on the situation in net.

Subtext is to spark good conversation that points to the best path. I’m not trying to push people to a conclusion I’ve already reached, I’m trying to use the discussion to forge my own conclusion.

I”m seeing 3 points of consensus:

• Levi is going to be this team’s goalie long-term
• Giving him the keys without a strong support system is a huge risk short-term
• UPL and Comrie aren’t that support system

I don’t know that any of these premises are actually true, but every time I try to pick one apart, I end up deciding I agree with them.

So we need a goalie.

The next part is what kind of goalie do we want, who is available, and how much should we be giving up?

I’m still working through that part, but I actually do see options