The Sabres and the Goalie market

[Thorny]

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch

Mittelstadt - Cozens - Greenway

Rousek - Krebs - Peterka

Girgensons - Jost - Okposo

Samuelsson - Dahlin

Power - Clifton

Stillman - Jokiharju

Hellebuyck

Levi

(VO, Johnson, Boosh)

 

Who wouldn’t want to see that? Gimme

[Brawndo]

Just now, Thorny said:

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch

Mittelstadt - Cozens - Greenway

Rousek - Krebs - Peterka

Girgensons - Jost - Okposo

Samuelsson - Dahlin

Power - Clifton

Stillman - Jokiharju

Hellebuyck

Levi

(VO, Johnson, Boosh)

 

Who wouldn’t want to see that? Gimme

Yes please 

[Derrico]

15 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Swayman and Gustavasson both already applied for arbitration, we need those awards to be too rich for their teams 

I mentioned it in another thread but what about Ilya Samsanov?  High draft pick.  Good numbers last year on a leaf team that plays a high risk game.  They’re already something like $8 mil over the cap and he’s also filing for arbitration.  Just another name to consider if the price comes in too high and leafs want to turn it over to a younger and cheaper Woll. 

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, Derrico said:

I mentioned it in another thread but what about Ilya Samsanov?  High draft pick.  Good numbers last year on a leaf team that plays a high risk game.  They’re already something like $8 mil over the cap and he’s also filing for arbitration.  Just another name to consider if the price comes in too high and leafs want to turn it over to a younger and cheaper Woll. 

Pretty sure according to another thread that he's in arbitration.  Should the Loafs walk away he'd be a serious consideration.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Serious question because NHL arbitration is Voodoo.  Can the current team trade the player after the player has filed arbitration?  Can they trade the player during arbitration? How long does the team have to accept the arbitration award? Can the Sabres make an offer sheet once the player files for arbitration?

Could this end up being a sign-and-trade type situation? For example, the arbitrator awards Samsonov $5 mill for the next season.  Toronto accepts the award but then trades him to another team.

I'm sure Toronto would love to move Matt Murray but no one is taking him at any price.  They also just spent $10 mill on Bertuzzi, Domi and Klingberg.  Is Nylander getting traded to help them get under the cap?

I doubt Minn lets Gustavsson walk at any price.  Swayman is the most interesting situation.  If you're Boston, do you try to keep both goalies?  Do you trade Ullmark to keep Swayman or vice versa? Or do you keep both and trade someone else to stay cap compliant? 

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[steveoath]

I thought that once the player has went to arbitration and signed he cannot sign anywhere until Jan 1st?

[GASabresIUFAN]

I have added a goaltending poll to gauge our collective feelings on who will be our goalies to start the season.

[Taro T]

6 hours ago, steveoath said:

I thought that once the player has went to arbitration and signed he cannot sign anywhere until Jan 1st?

Depends upon whether the arbitration was for a single year or 2.  Signing after getting a 1 year award means the player can't sign a new contract beyond that until January 1; signing after getting a 2 year award means the player can't sign a new contract beyond that until July 1.

The player and team can still try to negotiate a deal outside of arbitration until his arbitration hearing begins.  Once the hearing has started, the player and team have to wait for the arbitration award being rendered within the next 48 hours after the hearing to make their next move.  Player elected arbitration - if the decision is for $3.5MM or more (prorated up for increases in the average salary since 2014) then the club can walk away from 1 award for every 2 players that took the team to arbitration (1 or 2 players went to arbitration, 1 contract can get walked away from; 2 or 4 players went to arbitration, 2 contracts can get walked away from; etc.).  If the club had elected a 2 year award, and decides to walk away from the award they only get out of the 2nd year; the 1st still holds.  And either way the player is a UFA after the team has walked away from the player elected arbitration award.  (Either immediately for a 1 year award that was walked away from, or on July 1 for a 2 year award that the 2nd year was walked away from.)

If the team chooses to go to arbitration, the player can still sign an offer sheet from a team provided he signs it by 5PM on July 5 (which is also the deadline for player elected arbitration requests to be filed).  If the player signs an offer sheet, then obviously he won't end up going to arbitration.  (Teams file for arbitration in June (exact deadline gets effected by the end date of the SCF) or if they offered a player a QO but it is still unsigned at 5PM on July 5 they can file for arbitration that next day July 6 until 5PM.

If the player elects arbitration, he loses his ability to negotiate with other teams.

With player elected arbitration, as stated above, teams can walk away from roughly 1/2 of the awards and the players are UFAs after the award was walked away from.  With club elected arbitration, once a decision has been rendered that is what the player's next contract becomes.  The player can't walk away and a team can't walk away if they chose arbitration.  The team has 48 hours after the last arbitration that it may walk away from to decide whether to accept or walk away from an arbitration decision.

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I have added a goaltending poll to gauge our collective feelings on who will be our goalies to start the season.

Lot of options you listed there. Nearly through this week without a move, a move to address G probably becomes unlikely, in my estimation. At least to the point id be actively hoping for one. 

Comrie and UPL are poor at what they do so I can’t really come up with a criteria for how I think KA will choose between them. On the one hand UPL has more unrealized upside so maybe him.
On the other hand, Comrie was his guy/signing, and maybe he wants to give whatever the voodoo analytics were that led to Comrie being brought in in the first place another shot to pan out. Comrie also has a lot of experience being unable to advance beyond the performance required of a back up goalie, so the higher KA is on Levi, I mean KA could easily be pencilling him in for 50 given KA’s m.o., the more likely we keep Comrie imo.

There’s absolutely a reasonable chance the goaltending improves to the point we can make the playoffs in spite of it. Conservatively I can hope for Levi to up his numbers slightly, allowing him to replace Anderson, and by playing more games, get us those extra points

If Levi improves so much and so quickly he even surpasses the output Anderson delivered, and handles the large workload he hasn’t been tested with yet admirably, we could actually have positive results from the position. Or if say UPL extrapolates that month he had over a larger time frame/emerges as a competent back up this season, that could allow for positive output as well 

Edited July 6, 2023 by Thorny

[Zamboni]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Depends upon whether the arbitration was for a single year or 2.  Signing after getting a 1 year award means the player can't sign a new contract beyond that until January 1; signing after getting a 2 year award means the player can't sign a new contract beyond that until July 1.

The player and team can still try to negotiate a deal outside of arbitration until his arbitration hearing begins.  Once the hearing has started, the player and team have to wait for the arbitration award being rendered within the next 48 hours after the hearing to make their next move.  Player elected arbitration - if the decision is for $3.5MM or more (prorated up for increases in the average salary since 2014) then the club can walk away from 1 award for every 2 players that took the team to arbitration (1 or 2 players went to arbitration, 1 contract can get walked away from; 2 or 4 players went to arbitration, 2 contracts can get walked away from; etc.).  If the club had elected a 2 year award, and decides to walk away from the award they only get out of the 2nd year; the 1st still holds.  And either way the player is a UFA after the team has walked away from the player elected arbitration award.  (Either immediately for a 1 year award that was walked away from, or on July 1 for a 2 year award that the 2nd year was walked away from.)

If the team chooses to go to arbitration, the player can still sign an offer sheet from a team provided he signs it by 5PM on July 5 (which is also the deadline for player elected arbitration requests to be filed).  If the player signs an offer sheet, then obviously he won't end up going to arbitration.  (Teams file for arbitration in June (exact deadline gets effected by the end date of the SCF) or if they offered a player a QO but it is still unsigned at 5PM on July 5 they can file for arbitration that next day July 6 until 5PM.

If the player elects arbitration, he loses his ability to negotiate with other teams.

With player elected arbitration, as stated above, teams can walk away from roughly 1/2 of the awards and the players are UFAs after the award was walked away from.  With club elected arbitration, once a decision has been rendered that is what the player's next contract becomes.  The player can't walk away and a team can't walk away if they chose arbitration.  The team has 48 hours after the last arbitration that it may walk away from to decide whether to accept or walk away from an arbitration decision.

Did you just spit all of that out from your brain? Or did you copy and paste from a source?

 

because if you just typed all that from your general knowledge of arbitration…

 

[Flashsabre]

I think the goaltender market is still very volatile. 3 high end goalies going to arbitration for teams in cap crunches: Swayman in Bos, Gustavsson in Minny And Samsonov in Tor.

Also Carter Hart is rumoured on the market but he was part of Team Canada that is under investigation. The police report is supposed to be out by the end of July. If he was not involved then teams might jump on him then.

Hellebuyck is also out there.

Once the arb cases are done and the police report comes out we might see some more goalie movement.

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, Zamboni said:

Did you just spit all of that out from your brain? Or did you copy and paste from a source?

 

because if you just typed all that from your general knowledge of arbitration…

 

Relooked at the CBA (and the MOU) to refresh the memory.  (E.g., Did not recall the exact dates that things happen for instance, especially because those dates were different the past 2 seasons post-Covid.)  But it is in yours truly's words.

[Turbo44]

Hellebuyck is a dream but a pipe dream. I think the cost is too high (though we may be bidding vs nobody). KA Adams wants to Levi to play at least have the games not 30%
 

goalies who they should target:

Demko, would be pricey but the perfect time share candidate. Prob is Vancouver won’t tear it down and trading Demko would kill them

Fleury - pricey contract wise and would he wave to come?

hart - there should be a lot of teams in on him but Briere is asking too much plus there may be a waiting game going on to see if Hart is implicated in the CAD scandal

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by Turbo44