This day on Sabres history- The beginning of suffering

[kas23]

Where were you when you learned of the impending suffering?

[DarthEbriate]

19 hours ago, Thorny said:

The fact we have been rebuilding for 10 years when teams generally turn things around much faster suggests it’s a lesson they are already aware of.

- - - 

On a related tangent: There are people talking about how Tampa’s “cupboard is bare” (what a terrible franchise, right lol) and that they are headed for a long stretch of bad hockey, now. Teams don’t even/haven’t operated by the same parameters the sabres have in the past, and won’t. They’ll turn it around significantly quicker than our bias would have us believe, because we only know what we are used to.

I suppose Tampa could be in for a really long stretch if they traded away Kucherov, Vasilevskiy, Hedman, Stamkos, and Point in a desperate attempt to crater the entire franchise for a #1 draft pick in a couple years. Then realized that they still had some good pieces in Cirelli and Sergachev and Hagel and traded them, too. Then, wheeled-and-dealed all that newfound capital to rebuild a completely different roster around their new #2 picks, then switched the GM and rebuilt a completely different roster, then switched the GM again and rebuilt a completely different roster again again. Then, sold off those not-so-new #2 picks for a completely different roster again again again. That type of effort takes time. And effective, economical, and efficient planning. 😇

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Perfect as the enemy of the good... A Sabres tradition since 2013.

And that's giving them a huge benefit of the doubt that there's really some high-minded objective.

What are you talking about?  Who is "them".   As I pointed out, they have had 4 different GM regimes since Terry took over.  Are you saying they were all operating the same way?  

[MattPie]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

I believe I have shown that Murray made more draft selections, including more first/second round selections, than Botterill did in the same number of drafts 

He certainly did, but he came in with a huge surplus of picks from the DR teardown. Made many picks, traded a bunch of picks too and didn't get much real value back from the picks he traded. Traded away one of the 2017 picks before getting canned.

[Crusader1969]

If Sabres become the beasts we are all expecting and win a cup, we will all agree that the Tank was worth it? 

 

edit * should have said most expecting, not all

Edited May 1, 2023 by Crusader1969

[DarthEbriate]

22 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

If Sabres become the beasts we are all expecting and win a cup, we will all agree that the Tank was worth it? 

 

edit * should have said most expecting, not all

I got a really good Star Wars prequel trilogy matching storyline with Sheevyn's 10-year phantom menace ascent to GM building around the chosen one of Jackikin Eichwalker out of it. Followed by Eichwalker's fall from grace, becoming more machine than man, and being encase in a Golden Knight's suit. Add to that the trade-offspring of Eichwalker and Reino Amdiala being Tuch and Levi (and a bunch of others) who will rebuild the Sabres to glory and win two Death Stars in the original trilogy timeline...  I mean, there's some entertainment to it all.  

[Crusader1969]

Correct me if I am wrong here but 

Samson became Levi and Kulich

Jack became Östlund, Krebs and Tuch.

Nylander became Joker

They used the 31st pick in the 2015 draft to help acquire O'Reilly, who eventually netted the Sabres Thompson

And the complete mess that Murray made and that Botterill was unable to fix led to them drafting Mitts, Cozens, Power, Dahlin, Samuelsson and Quinn

might be a lonely island that I am on but I wouldn't change a thing to get to this point.

 

 

 

 

[Thorny]

4 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I believe I have shown that Murray made more draft selections, including more first/second round selections, than Botterill did in the same number of drafts 

And I posted the research the other day (for the 10th time) that Botterill both traded more picks and brought in less. Yet only Murray gets the rap. 

the board doesn’t care, man

8 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

And that's why you're the only one who is allowed to discuss your skivvy situation.

Why Skivvy lol 

Edited May 1, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorny]

4 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

I suppose Tampa could be in for a really long stretch if they traded away Kucherov, Vasilevskiy, Hedman, Stamkos, and Point in a desperate attempt to crater the entire franchise for a #1 draft pick in a couple years. Then realized that they still had some good pieces in Cirelli and Sergachev and Hagel and traded them, too. Then, wheeled-and-dealed all that newfound capital to rebuild a completely different roster around their new #2 picks, then switched the GM and rebuilt a completely different roster, then switched the GM again and rebuilt a completely different roster again again. Then, sold off those not-so-new #2 picks for a completely different roster again again again. That type of effort takes time. And effective, economical, and efficient planning. 😇

Agree 

3 hours ago, MattPie said:

He certainly did, but he came in with a huge surplus of picks from the DR teardown. Made many picks, traded a bunch of picks too and didn't get much real value back from the picks he traded. Traded away one of the 2017 picks before getting canned.

Lol no tho. He didn’t “trade a bunch of picks”. This is the misnomer 

Murray actually *brought in* more picks than he sent out. The idea Murray dealt away “too much”, *frequently* refrained on this board shouldn’t even exist. It was an issue of quality, not quantity. The only argument that exists saying Murray traded too many is if *one* is too many because he was a bad GM and made poor trades. 

But it’s two different things that shouldn’t be conflated: it’s, again, frequently frequently mentioned that Adams shouldn’t deal too many futures because he’d be “pulling a Murray”. Murray didn’t deal too many. He just dealt poorly. making trades is good if you are a good GM.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, Crusader1969 said:

If Sabres become the beasts we are all expecting and win a cup, we will all agree that the Tank was worth it? 

 

edit * should have said most expecting, not all

No. Why would it be.

There’s a statute of limitations. Would be ridiculously implausible to suggest we *needed* to fight our way out of a huge hole in order to be good 

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Correct me if I am wrong here but 

Samson became Levi and Kulich

Jack became Östlund, Krebs and Tuch.

Nylander became Joker

They used the 31st pick in the 2015 draft to help acquire O'Reilly, who eventually netted the Sabres Thompson

And the complete mess that Murray made and that Botterill was unable to fix led to them drafting Mitts, Cozens, Power, Dahlin, Samuelsson and Quinn

might be a lonely island that I am on but I wouldn't change a thing to get to this point.

 

 

 

 

I actually *care* that the last 10 years of the ONLY 60 or so I’ll MAYBE get in life before utter nothingness takes hold were an absolute abomination where my favourite sports team was concerned. 

You don’t get that sh*te back. It’s definitely NOT worth it when there is zero logical reason to think it NEEDED to take this long. Oodles of other teams have provided the proof 

Edited May 1, 2023 by Thorny

[Crusader1969]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I actually *care* that the last 10 years of the ONLY 60 or so I’ll MAYBE get in life before utter nothingness takes hold were an absolute abomination where my favourite sports was concerned. 

hopefully the next 10 are so good that they make up for the lost years.

 

 

[Weave]

2 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

If Sabres become the beasts we are all expecting and win a cup, we will all agree that the Tank was worth it? 

 

edit * should have said most expecting, not all

An athlete’s generation to turn the franchise around, in the process setting a league record for futility?

While everyone was dancing on Boston’s grave last night I was thinking, Boston had already been a beast of a team for a few seasons before they definitively ended Buffalo’s reign as a team that mattered.  During the ensuing 12 seasons, Boston had HOFers age out and retire, they re-tooled on the fly, and went on another 5 year tear, that might, MIGHT just now be ending.  And Buffalo, with their sage decision to tank, might, MIGHT be on the cusp of being relevant again.

You’ve gotta be ***** kidding me.

I’ll never be on board with that.

[Crusader1969]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

An athlete’s generation to turn the franchise around, in the process setting a league record for futility?

While everyone was dancing on Boston’s grave last night I was thinking, Boston had already been a beast of a team for a few seasons before they definitively ended Buffalo’s reign as a team that mattered.  During the ensuing 12 seasons, Boston had HOFers age out and retire, they re-tooled on the fly, and went on another 5 year tear, that might, MIGHT just now be ending.  And Buffalo, with their sage decision to tank, might, MIGHT be on the cusp of being relevant again.

You’ve gotta be ***** kidding me.

I’ll never be on board with that.

I’ll check back if /when they win the cup 

if they turn into the team “beast of the east” as one opposing gm predicted.  It would be all worth it 

 

[Weave]

39 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

I’ll check back if /when they win the cup 

if they turn into the team “beast of the east” as one opposing gm predicted.  It would be all worth it 

 

Nearly every other team does a turn around in under 5 years and you think almost 12 is going to be acceptable.  At some point you have to disconnect the now from the past because the two are so far removed.  We are past that point.

[Crusader1969]

8 minutes ago, Weave said:

Nearly every other team does a turn around in under 5 years and you think almost 12 is going to be acceptable.  At some point you have to disconnect the now from the past because the two are so far removed.  We are past that point.

I thought it was the 10 year anniversary of the “pain” news conference ?

Anyways it’s a mute point at this time cause they still haven’t even made the playoffs 

 

 

[Weave]

8 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

I thought it was the 10 year anniversary of the “pain” news conference ?

Anyways it’s a mute point at this time cause they still haven’t even made the playoffs 

 

 

That’s why I said 12.  10 plus the we’re always a couple of years away.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

On 4/30/2023 at 10:47 AM, PASabreFan said:

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

On 4/29/2023 at 8:09 PM, Gatorman0519 said:

Who would of though in 2023 we are still feeling the effects of this?

Many of us did.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Why do we need to re-hash all this?

The proof is in the pudding.

The *suffering* was a precurser to the dastardly.  The worst decision by the Sabres.  Ever.

[Scottysabres]

11 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

Why do we need to re-hash all this?

The proof is in the pudding.

The *suffering* was a precurser to the dastardly.  The worst decision by the Sabres.  Ever.

"If we fail to teach the lessons of the past, we are doomed to repeat the mistakes that are oh so costly".

"Mistakes are the decisions made on the way to greatness".

"Time, we needed time, and time was so precious".

"There is no greater tragedy than failure without the commitment to pick one's self up and learn from that failure while trying again".

"We were born to be fans of Stanley Cup Champions. If we failed 13 seasons we might be the worst failure 11 seasons out 13,  but not this coming season. This coming season we go to the playoffs, and we start our Cup contention Era, because we can. I'm sick and tired (and tired always followed sick) of hearing about what a bad organization the Sabres are. Screw the rest of the league, this coming season we fans ride shotgun to a team that is positioned to mow down their competition. Now, let's go out there and take it to them"!!!!!

Edited May 6, 2023 by Scottysabres