This day on Sabres history- The beginning of suffering

[Weave]

 

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, Weave said:

 

This should be ban worthy.  

[Gatorman0519]

Who would of though in 2023 we are still feeling the effects of this?

[SABRES 0311]

3 hours ago, Weave said:

 

Bill Hope. Don’t know him and don’t want to.

[Thorny]

“What did it cost?” 

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Bill Hope. Don’t know him and don’t want to.

Hoppe is an excellent reporter.

[SABRES 0311]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

Hoppe is an excellent reporter.

Good for him.

[SwampD]

29 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Good for him.

He was reporting on what the GM said, not saying that himself.

Yes,… our GM said, "I would like to think that people will give up some suffering in order to win a Stanley Cup. I’m willing to do it. I believe our fan base is willing to do it."

He was right. Much of our fanbase was willing,… but not all.

I remember this day.

It was dark.

Next year. Time to exorcise those demons.

It's ***** time.

 

 

[SABRES 0311]

1 minute ago, SwampD said:

He was reporting on what the GM said, not saying that himself.

Yes,… our GM said, "I would like to think that people will give up some suffering in order to win a Stanley Cup. I’m willing to do it. I believe our fan base is willing to do it."

He was right. Much of our fanbase was willing,… but not all.

I remember this day.

It was dark.

Next year. Time to exorcise those demons.

It's ***** time.

 

 

The words irritate me. The moves made after were worse. 

[Andrew Amerk]

1 hour ago, SABRES 0311 said:

The words irritate me. The moves made after were worse. 

Whose words?

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

8 hours ago, Thorny said:

“What did it cost?” 

A box of these:

 

[PASabreFan]

[Marvin]

I imagine most other teams' management learnt the lesson from our example not to totally dismantle the NHL team because you can spend years recovering if things don't go perfectly.

[matter2003]

20 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

Who would of though in 2023 we are still feeling the effects of this?

Only because Murray got impatient and started trading away all the assets the Sabres acquired for players that didn't work out instead of being more patient and letting them develop and draft well.

[North Buffalo]

Dont need to be reminded... gotta ignore this one

[DarthEbriate]

Anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. And purposeful suffering leads to hating your organization's capitulation, cheering against your own franchise, churning GMs and coaches which resets all rebuild parameters, windows, player types/styles, and game types/styles (side note: I do think GMTM's team does eventually get back to the playoffs before 11 years, but they reset to JBot. I think his ROR/Eich core also makes it to the playoffs before 11 years except for the Krueger hire, but once you spin your wheels you just keep spinning because it's a good trick to play on the fanbase.) And eventually... suffering leads to decreased season ticket sales and apathy.

[Pimlach]

19 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Only because Murray got impatient and started trading away all the assets the Sabres acquired for players that didn't work out instead of being more patient and letting them develop and draft well.

Murray was the worst.  Never cared for him.   LaFontaine and Murray, mixed with the merry band of Pegula's straphangers - what could go wrong?  

Edited May 1, 2023 by Pimlach

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, Marvin said:

I imagine most other teams' management learnt the lesson from our example not to totally dismantle the NHL team because you can spend years recovering if things don't go perfectly.

The fact we have been rebuilding for 10 years when teams generally turn things around much faster suggests it’s a lesson they are already aware of.

- - - 

On a related tangent: There are people talking about how Tampa’s “cupboard is bare” (what a terrible franchise, right lol) and that they are headed for a long stretch of bad hockey, now. Teams don’t even/haven’t operated by the same parameters the sabres have in the past, and won’t. They’ll turn it around significantly quicker than our bias would have us believe, because we only know what we are used to. The transition from evaluating your team with the lowest of expectations and by how highly rated your prospect pool is, to evaluating your team relative to the *league itself* is a long one. Sabres had a great year relative to Buffalo, and, fact remains, a poor year relative to the league. That’s what 20th place is. 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Only because Murray got impatient and started trading away all the assets the Sabres acquired for players that didn't work out instead of being more patient and letting them develop and draft well.

I only wish someone had posted the research a double-digit amount of times that disproved this. /s

Murray didn’t start “trading away all the assets”

[PerreaultForever]

I think the word "some" (suffering) was used a little too loosely here. 

8 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The fact we have been rebuilding for 10 years when teams generally turn things around much faster suggests it’s a lesson they are already aware of.

- - - 

On a related tangent: There are people talking about how Tampa’s “cupboard is bare” (what a terrible franchise, right lol) and that they are headed for a long stretch of bad hockey, now. Teams don’t even/haven’t operated by the same parameters the sabres have in the past, and won’t. They’ll turn it around significantly quicker than our bias would have us believe, because we only know what we are used to. The transition from evaluating your team with the lowest of expectations with the highest rated prospect pool to evaluating your team relative to the *league itself* is a long one. Sabres had a great year relative to Buffalo, and, fact remains, a poor year relative to the league. That’s what 20th place is. 

That's very true that it usually (and should) take less time but we are in the 2nd (or 3rd depending on how you look at it) full rebuild with no success from the first. 

As for Tampa, well, they already won a cup and then rebuilt and then won a few more so I wouldn't be shocked if they drop off for a few years and then are right back in the mix in another 3 or 4. 

Boston loses tonight and the talk will all be about how their time is over and their cupboard is bare too. Washington and Pittsburgh will have a hard time staying in the mix if they aren't already out of it. The time is right for Sabres, Senators, Red Wings, all to make the right moves and take their places. 

[matter2003]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

I only wish someone had posted the research a double-digit amount of times that disproved this. /s

Murray didn’t start “trading away all the assets”

 

He traded away a lot of them.

[PASabreFan]

14 hours ago, Thorny said:

The fact we have been rebuilding for 10 years when teams generally turn things around much faster suggests it’s a lesson they are already aware of.

- - - 

On a related tangent: There are people talking about how Tampa’s “cupboard is bare” (what a terrible franchise, right lol) and that they are headed for a long stretch of bad hockey, now. Teams don’t even/haven’t operated by the same parameters the sabres have in the past, and won’t. They’ll turn it around significantly quicker than our bias would have us believe, because we only know what we are used to. The transition from evaluating your team with the lowest of expectations and by how highly rated your prospect pool is, to evaluating your team relative to the *league itself* is a long one. Sabres had a great year relative to Buffalo, and, fact remains, a poor year relative to the league. That’s what 20th place is. 

And that's why you're the only one who is allowed to discuss your skivvy situation.

[Pimlach]

17 hours ago, Thorny said:

The fact we have been rebuilding for 10 years when teams generally turn things around much faster suggests it’s a lesson they are already aware of.

- - - 

On a related tangent: There are people talking about how Tampa’s “cupboard is bare” (what a terrible franchise, right lol) and that they are headed for a long stretch of bad hockey, now. Teams don’t even/haven’t operated by the same parameters the sabres have in the past, and won’t. They’ll turn it around significantly quicker than our bias would have us believe, because we only know what we are used to. The transition from evaluating your team with the lowest of expectations and by how highly rated your prospect pool is, to evaluating your team relative to the *league itself* is a long one. Sabres had a great year relative to Buffalo, and, fact remains, a poor year relative to the league. That’s what 20th place is. 

I don't care for the related tangent.  This "transition" you speak of is your own creation.   I don't like seeing the fans and avid followers criticized for basically doing nothing but sticking with their team.  

No one is calling Tampa a terrible franchise and sure, they will very likely "rebuild" (more likely retool) faster than the Sabres did, and that won't be hard.   

The current Sabres FO, coaches, and players are evaluating their team the same way that every team does, by where you finish.  Nothing I heard at the end of their season says otherwise.  

The Sabres problems for the past 10 years lies with a single common denominator - Terry Pegula.    You want to blame someone or something for the past 10 years blame Terry and Kim.  All of this is on Terry because he hires the people that run the team.  Regier, Rolston, Black, Sawyer, LaFontaine, Nolan, Murray, Byslma, Boterill, Housley, Krueger  - all gone.  Only Terry remains.  

Hope and pray that Adams, a guy with no prior NHL Hockey Operations experience, can get the job done.  That is all a fan can do.  If a fan has to look for a reason to be optimistic then so be it.  

Edited May 1, 2023 by Pimlach

[PASabreFan]

Perfect as the enemy of the good... A Sabres tradition since 2013.

And that's giving them a huge benefit of the doubt that there's really some high-minded objective.

[Randall Flagg]

18 hours ago, Thorny said:

I only wish someone had posted the research a double-digit amount of times that disproved this. /s

Murray didn’t start “trading away all the assets”

I believe I have shown that Murray made more draft selections, including more first/second round selections, than Botterill did in the same number of drafts