Is the bad goaltending now ruining the Amerks season as well?

[DarthEbriate]

23 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Or he comes back and is injured all the time. I couldnt stomach that after giving in to his insulting demands

That's the biggest fear -- he's had two non-contact knee injuries. But LTIR is always an option when injured and then it's not a cap concern. The team played hard in front of him and had confidence he'd give them a chance to win (and certainly if they got it to a shootout). But with Hutton... the team had no confidence.

If he turned into an average .915 guy... that's better than the .900 the Sabres were lucky to get from everyone else.

An additional year or an extra million were not insulting demands. That was the market for starting goaltenders.

[Curt]

22 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Or he comes back and is injured all the time. I couldnt stomach that after giving in to his insulting demands

I know, right?  Last week I offered to reduce my own pay at my frustratingly crappy company, just to make sure they didn’t feel insulted.

This is these guys’ life.  They are working like crazy for chances to make millions, with the knowledge that at any moment, it could all be over.  I think it’s completely unreasonable if you don’t expect them to attempt to maximize their guaranteed earnings.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

I know, right?  Last week I offered to reduce my own pay at my frustratingly crappy company, just to make sure they didn’t feel insulted.

This is these guys’ life.  They are working like crazy for chances to make millions, with the knowledge that at any moment, it could all be over.  I think it’s completely unreasonable if you don’t expect them to attempt to maximize their guaranteed earnings.

[bob_sauve28]

4 minutes ago, Curt said:

I know, right?  Last week I offered to reduce my own pay at my frustratingly crappy company, just to make sure they didn’t feel insulted.

This is these guys’ life.  They are working like crazy for chances to make millions, with the knowledge that at any moment, it could all be over.  I think it’s completely unreasonable if you don’t expect them to attempt to maximize their guaranteed earnings.

OMG!! You won't tell him I said that are you??? I sure hope not, he might get as bent out of shape about as you are. But probably not. Actually, lol, very much doubt it. 

 

[bob_sauve28]

8 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

That's the biggest fear -- he's had two non-contact knee injuries. But LTIR is always an option when injured and then it's not a cap concern. The team played hard in front of him and had confidence he'd give them a chance to win (and certainly if they got it to a shootout). But with Hutton... the team had no confidence.

If he turned into an average .915 guy... that's better than the .900 the Sabres were lucky to get from everyone else.

An additional year or an extra million were not insulting demands. That was the market for starting goaltenders.

No it wasn't, it was the market if he had to play for the Buffalo Sabres, I sure hope his kids don't go hungry on that cheap contract he signed with the Bruins, sniff 😒

[Curt]

1 minute ago, bob_sauve28 said:

OMG!! You won't tell him I said that are you??? I sure hope not, he might get as bent out of shape about as you are. But probably not. Actually, lol, very much doubt it. 

 

I don’t get it.

Im not bent out of shape. You said you thought the situation was insulting.  I’m saying that you shouldn’t be bent out of shape about it.  Then you say that I’m getting bent out of shape.

Nah.

[DarthEbriate]

10 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

No it wasn't, it was the market if he had to play for the Buffalo Sabres, I sure hope his kids don't go hungry on that cheap contract he signed with the Bruins, sniff 😒

This summer's UFA goalie contracts, 1-way, more than 2 years, and for a goalie expected to be a starter, not as a split starts guy:

Cal Petersen 3 x $5M

Elvis Merzlikins 5 x $5.4M

Ilya Sorokin 3 x $4M (contender, with Varlamov still on roster)

Juuse Saros 4 x $5M

Carter Hart 3 x $3.9M (coming off a horrible year)

Philipp Grubauer 6 x $5.9M

Frederik Andersen 2 x $4.5M (including despite only 2 years: contender, with Antti Raanta also added)

Linus Ullmark 4 x $5M

Thatcher Demko 5 x $5M

Jordan Binnington 6 x $6M

Boston lost Rask and paid Ullmark to be their multi-year starter (and traded Vladar to avoid losing him for nothing in expansion). It was not an overpay. GM Sheevyn simply didn't want either the extra year or the extra cash or the injury risk. But those weren't the reasons given. The reasons given for anyone moved was that they were blocking or they didn't want to be here.

[bob_sauve28]

24 minutes ago, Curt said:

I don’t get it.

Im not bent out of shape. You said you thought the situation was insulting.  I’m saying that you shouldn’t be bent out of shape about it.  Then you say that I’m getting bent out of shape.

Nah.

Just get over it

3 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

This summer's UFA goalie contracts, 1-way, more than 2 years, and for a goalie expected to be a starter, not as a split starts guy:

Cal Petersen 3 x $5M

Elvis Merzlikins 5 x $5.4M

Ilya Sorokin 3 x $4M (contender, with Varlamov still on roster)

Juuse Saros 4 x $5M

Carter Hart 3 x $3.9M (coming off a horrible year)

Philipp Grubauer 6 x $5.9M

Frederik Andersen 2 x $4.5M (including despite only 2 years: contender, with Antti Raanta also added)

Linus Ullmark 4 x $5M

Thatcher Demko 5 x $5M

Jordan Binnington 6 x $6M

Boston lost Rask and paid Ullmark to be their multi-year starter (and traded Vladar to avoid losing him for nothing in expansion). It was not an overpay. GM Sheevyn simply didn't want either the extra year or the extra cash or the injury risk. But those weren't the reasons given. The reasons given for anyone moved was that they were blocking or they didn't want to be here.

Confused, did Ullmark want more money and years to come here? That was my understanding, is that correct? 

[Curt]

2 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Just get over it

That’s what I’m saying.

[DarthEbriate]

34 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Confused, did Ullmark want more money and years to come here? That was my understanding, is that correct? 

Nothing 100%, but paging through this thread https://www.sabrespace.com/community/topic/29799-linus-ullmark-signs-with-boston-bruins/

It looks like Ullmark wanted more term from the Sabres considering the next couple seasons were going to be pretty rough, and he took a year or two less to go to an established Bruins squad. Now, whether it was 5x$5M or 6x$5M is just whatever was forwarded by the Sabres to the Buffalo News and other outlets.

Asking for another year considering the GM is going to ice the roster we've got this year --- that's within the player's rights considering his team is planning to blow the next season or two by trading away Eichel and Reino for prospects.

The goalie list is just to show that everyone signed this summer to be the #1 was getting about $5M.

[bob_sauve28]

2 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Nothing 100%, but paging through this thread https://www.sabrespace.com/community/topic/29799-linus-ullmark-signs-with-boston-bruins/

It looks like Ullmark wanted more term from the Sabres considering the next couple seasons were going to be pretty rough, and he took a year or two less to go to an established Bruins squad. Now, whether it was 5x$5M or 6x$5M is just whatever was forwarded by the Sabres to the Buffalo News and other outlets.

Asking for another year considering the GM is going to ice the roster we've got this year --- that's within the player's rights considering his team is planning to blow the next season or two by trading away Eichel and Reino for prospects.

The goalie list is just to show that everyone signed this summer to be the #1 was getting about $5M.

All I’m saying is he may have gotten market value from Bruins, but it would of been above market value for us to get him.  With his injury history, I’d pass. Having to over pay to get him and then he might turn out to get hurt, that would of been a tough one to take. We might just be in the same situation now, with him instead of Anderson being the injured goalie. 

[Taro T]

14 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

All I’m saying is he may have gotten market value from Bruins, but it would of been above market value for us to get him.  With his injury history, I’d pass. Having to over pay to get him and then he might turn out to get hurt, that would of been a tough one to take. We might just be in the same situation now, with him instead of Anderson being the injured goalie. 

So, are you of the opinion that Ullmark lied to Adams?  Because the way it was presented, Adams had a deal acceptable to both sides but Linus wanted to see what was out there that might be better as was his right per the CBA.  

That Ullmark had said he'd take what Adams offered should it not get beaten says that he didn't require a premium to stay w/ Buffalo.  It also implies that had Adams been the 1st to make the Bruins offer, it would've been acceptable and then it's up to the Bruins to top it.  Would they?  Doubt it but maybe.  But THEY should've been the ones needing to go over and above, not the Sabres, and the Sabres were in position to force the B's to react to the "real" offer and not just the bargain basement deal Adams offered.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Taro T

[bob_sauve28]

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

So, are you of the opinion that Ullmark lied to Adams?  Because the way it was presented, Adams had a deal acceptable to both sides but Linus wanted to see what was out there that might be better as was his right per the CBA.  

That Ullmark had said he'd take what Adams offered should it not get beaten says that he didn't require a premium to stay w/ Buffalo.  It also implies that had Adams been the 1st to make the Bruins offer, it would've been acceptable and then it's up to the Bruins to top it.  Would they?  Doubt it but maybe.  But THEY should've been the ones needing to go over and above, not the Sabres, and the Sabres were in position to force the B's to react to the "real" offer and not just the bargain basement deal Adams offered.

No, I have no idea about a lie. I think I heard Bulldog say, or at least how I understood it is, Ullmark came back to them and said if you top the Bruins offer by a million, we will take it. And if that’s the case, I’d say no way. And not just because of the money 

[DarthEbriate]

17 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

All I’m saying is he may have gotten market value from Bruins, but it would of been above market value for us to get him.  With his injury history, I’d pass. Having to over pay to get him and then he might turn out to get hurt, that would of been a tough one to take. We might just be in the same situation now, with him instead of Anderson being the injured goalie. 

All entirely possible. The injury risk is the biggest risk with him. We might have to overpay anyone the next year or two. Maybe it's an extra year at $5M for the #1, or it's to give the next level down guy --- like a Mrazek type --- #1 money for a couple seasons instead of letting him go be a 1A/1B on a contender for $3.8. But either of those options is better than Dell/UPL as the backup to Anderson --- based on the last couple seasons' work.

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

No, I have no idea about a lie. I think I heard Bulldog say, or at least how I understood it is, Ullmark came back to them and said if you top the Bruins offer by a million, we will take it. And if that’s the case, I’d say no way. And not just because of the money 

But again, Adams reported he expected he had a deal worked out with Ullmark BEFORE he hit FA.  (He knew Linus was going to check out other offers, but he also had been told his offer was acceptable if it wasn't beaten.  If he really wanted Ullmark, he needed to make an offer that was unlikely to be beaten.  The offer he made was not legit for a guy you expected to be a starter.)  So, IF rather than making the 3 year offer for less money, he offers Ullmark the same 4 year deal that the Bruins did again BEFORE Ullmark hit FA, then the BRUNS have to beat that offer, not Buffalo.

Adams forked up by not making that offer when he could.  And, if the lesser deal was acceptable provided it wasn't beaten which is what Linus apparently told Kevyn, then why wouldn't the better offer also be acceptable?  Or was Linus playing 4D chess?  

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

All entirely possible. The injury risk is the biggest risk with him. We might have to overpay anyone the next year or two. Maybe it's an extra year at $5M for the #1, or it's to give the next level down guy --- like a Mrazek type --- #1 money for a couple seasons instead of letting him go be a 1A/1B on a contender for $3.8. But either of those options is better than Dell/UPL as the backup to Anderson --- based on the last couple seasons' work.

To the bolded, no.  Not if Ullmark wasn't lying to Adams when he'd said he'd sign if nobody beat the Sabres offer.  And if Adams really wanted him, he should've made the offer the Bruins made which would've forced the B's to overpay.

[DarthEbriate]

Only a Sith GM deals in absolutes.

[Weave]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

Can't agree - he *did* try to sign him. He was willing to pay *close* to what Ullmark got, for the poor goaltending he's providing, just not the full amount? Doubt it. 

I said "chase".  He wasn't going to get in a bidding war.  This is what we perceive your value to be.  If someone else perceives more, see ya.  We're not matching.

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, Weave said:

I said "chase".  He wasn't going to get in a bidding war.  This is what we perceive your value to be.  If someone else perceives more, see ya.  We're not matching.

Ya, I agree, with the emphasis Adams is putting on the future vs now, that he'd adjudge Ullmark's value to be lower (considering much of the value he provides is for NOW) than I (or boston) would isn't surprising 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Thorny

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ya, I agree, with the emphasis Adams is putting on the future vs now, that he'd adjudge Ullmark's value to be lower (considering much of the value he provides is for NOW) than I (or boston) would isn't surprising 

And if that's the case, it's disingenuous for him to say he believed he had a deal worked out.  Either that, or he completely misjudged the GT market for the 2nd time in 2 years.

[etiennep99]

GMTM  traded for a #1 goalie and drafted several prospects.   At this point, like I said years ago, JJ is still better than UPL.  But, GMTM sucked at getting a real d-core.

GMJBot finally assembled a mediocre d-core, but couldn't get the forwards fixed, and preferred to draft d-men over goalies.

GMKA is working over the forward position, and brought in some d-men, but sucks at goalies.  And he hasn't drafted any goalies either!  In 2021, he drafted Isak Rosen in the 1st round instead of either of the top two goalies who were still available.  Yzerman took one of the goalies; but what does Yzerman know about assembling a winning team?   [Crossing my fingers that Levi and/or Portillo save the day.  Portillo just got pulled last night in a loss, giving up 2 goals on 3 shots in the 2nd period.]

 

Anyone else having problems streaming Sabres games on WGR and WWKB?  The last two games the pregame show played, but as soon as the game was about to start, the stream switched back to ESPN national garbage programming.

 

 

 

 

 

[Marvin]

14 minutes ago, etiennep99 said:

Anyone else having problems streaming Sabres games on WGR and WWKB?  The last two games the pregame show played, but as soon as the game was about to start, the stream switched back to ESPN national garbage programming.

Same thing here.  I had to log onto NHL.com, get to the part where it links to the audio, and then go there.

[Zamboni]

1 hour ago, etiennep99 said:

 

 

Anyone else having problems streaming Sabres games on WGR and WWKB?  The last two games the pregame show played, but as soon as the game was about to start, the stream switched back to ESPN national garbage programming.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Same thing here.  I had to log onto NHL.com, get to the part where it links to the audio, and then go there.

This was posted this morning in the GDT  

 

 

[Marvin]

39 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

 

This was posted this morning in the GDT  

 

 

I know.  WWKB was streaming the betting stuff when the Sabres game started.  I used nhl.com on Wednesday because WGR had ESPN on.

[Cage]

17 hours ago, Thorny said:

You know how I feel about the strategy - so I agree with you on the GT.

But aside from my personal leanings, there's an argument that, within the dynamics of the plan itself, goaltending didn't need to be an area of focus this year. This is something I buy as plausible. 

The idea that Adams actually tried to upgrade the position/field competent goaltending seems much less likely to me, and frankly, much less palatable as a defence of Adams. If Adams actually thought these guys were going to work out, we have bigger issues. 

Seems to be he knew they weren't the answer, which is why they are all on 1 year deals.

He did put a legitimate effort into signing Ullmark to a long-term contract before he hit free agency.  Did he not?  Also, the primary asset for trading Reinhart was goaltending.  He was our most valuable asset after Eichel.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Cage