IIHF worlds

[Hoss]

1 minute ago, Curt said:

Yeah, impressive, just not as impressive as it would be in a normal year.  Agree that it probably raised his prospect stock.

As for who is #1 on Adams’ board, we certainly don’t know.  Would not have guessed that Quinn was top of the board when pick 8 was on the clock last year.

And be entirely fair, we don’t know that Quinn was number one on their board when they got to eight.

[Curt]

25 minutes ago, Thorny said:

why do you care so much if people want/think it could be someone else?

Consensus by force!

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

Yeah, impressive, just not as impressive as it would be in a normal year.  Agree that it probably raised his prospect stock.

As for who is #1 on Adams’ board, we certainly don’t know.  Would not have guessed that Quinn was top of the board when pick 8 was on the clock last year.

I'll add that he spoke about "who will be the best down the line, not right now". Probably just your standard GM draft speak, but isn't Power seen as one of the more ready-now players?

[Hoss]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Myself I focused on Beniers (if anyone, really) because I think taking another D at 1 is a mistake. But we don't need to rehash this in another thread haha

Especially a left shot D man

If he were a RHD I imagine the entire board and every Sabres fan everywhere with some sense would be on board with him. I would like us to acquire a good, young current NHL RHD in a deal this offseason, as I’ve mentioned elsewhere.

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, Curt said:

Consensus by force!

"Death, or exile! It's your choice"

"You have chosen death, by exile" 

4 minutes ago, Hoss said:

If he were a RHD I imagine the entire board and every Sabres fan everywhere with some sense would be on board with him. I would like us to acquire a good, young current NHL RHD in a deal this offseason, as I’ve mentioned elsewhere.

I'd be much closer to that, at least 

 

I still can't stand the thought of drafting a D first overall twice in 4 years. That's pretty wild imo. It may just be the way the cookie crumbles, but I'd look to avoid that fate if there is a F who's pretty close (especially if we can trade down( @LGR4GM don't shoot me) a spot to an make up the value difference)

Edited June 5, 2021 by Thorny

[Curt]

3 minutes ago, Hoss said:

And be entirely fair, we don’t know that Quinn was number one on their board when they got to eight.

What?  That makes no sense.

If we are going to get stupid weird, then maybe Power will be #1 on their board but they’ll pick someone else.

Now I’m doubting that they’ll pick Power even more!  You talked me into it!

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I'll add that he spoke about "who will be the best down the line, not right now". Probably just your standard GM draft speak, but isn't Power seen as one of the more ready-now players?

I don’t know what scouts would say today, but I actually thought he was a little raw, especially defending in transition.

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, Curt said:

What?  That makes no sense.

If we are going to get stupid weird, then maybe Power will be #1 on their board but they’ll pick someone else.

Now I’m doubting that they’ll pick Power even more!  You talked me into it!

I don’t know what scouts would say today, but I actually thought he was a little raw, especially defending in transition.

Fair enough, I just assumed cause the the worlds

[Curt]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

"Death, or exile! It's your choice"

"You have chosen death, by exile" 

I'd be much closer to that, at least 

 

I still can't stand the thought of drafting a D first overall twice in 4 years. That's pretty wild imo. It may just be the way the cookie crumbles, but I'd look to avoid that fate if there is a F who's pretty close (especially if we can trade down( @LGR4GM don't shoot me) a spot to an make up the value difference)

If Eichel and Reinhart are traded, and Powers is the pick at #1, it might be a long rebuild.  Read up on those great forward prospects in 2022 and 2023.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

If Eichel and Reinhart are traded, and Powers is the pick at #1, it might be a long rebuild.  Read up on those great forward prospects in 2022 and 2023.

I do think this is Adams' initial endgame 

I'm going to be pretty upset if the Eichel trade doesn't bring back good now players

[PerreaultForever]

Just want to add one comment about Tage's play. Still the same one trick pony. Reach out and try that wrister for a corner, easy stop almost every time. Nothing else. Kid just doesn't seem to get it. That worked in junior, it's time to adapt. 

[Curt]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Fair enough, I just assumed cause the the worlds

Early in the year I think most thought he had great physical tools but was a little raw in areas.  I really do think Power has improved a lot throughout the season.

I won’t be sad if Buffalo picks him, but it is a strange fit.

Dahlin, Power, Samuelsson, Bryson, Johnson - all good/great LHD prospects.

Maybe Dahlin could shift to the right side.  I know he has done it outside the NHL.

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, Curt said:

Early in the year I think most thought he had great physical tools but was a little raw in areas.  I really do think Power has improved a lot throughout the season.

I won’t be sad if Buffalo picks him, but it is a strange fit.

Dahlin, Power, Samuelsson, Bryson, Johnson - all good/great LHD prospects.

Maybe Dahlin could shift to the right side.  I know he has done it outside the NHL.

To something Dudacek said, I don't worry about Samuelsson, Bryson, Johnson in this context really, more it's about the presence of Dahlin. Taking a guy with the FIRST OVERALL pick you have probably ending up as a second pair D man doesn't seem very strategic to me. You can play two pairs a ton of minutes, true, and that makes it tolerable in terms of the handedness issue, but I still have question as to whether you'd be maximizing value with a second pair d-man role being filled by the pick. 

Make no mistake, even if Power is far and away the most talented player in the draft (he's not) we'll have been unlucky for that to be the draft we drew 1 overall in. Forwards impact the game more. I take my chances with a forward if it's close - they have no idea really who's going to end up better anyways. I just don't see the separation there to go with the d-man, if it was my choice 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Thorny

[Curt]

7 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I do think this is Adams' initial endgame 

I'm going to be pretty upset if the Eichel trade doesn't bring back good now players

3 year rebuild might be a prerequisite to becoming Sabres GM.  At least the forwards in the 2022/23 drafts look great.  Even great D prospects usually take a few years to get good, especially big guys.

[Thorny]

I don't really think about the "Dahlin to RHD" thing as it's very uncommon. Nevermind Dahlin being fully maximized on that side, which would again lower the value of picking Power. (if we switched Dahlin over and got a slightly weaker version - that affects the pick value of Power)

Edited June 5, 2021 by Thorny

[PerreaultForever]

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

Early in the year I think most thought he had great physical tools but was a little raw in areas.  I really do think Power has improved a lot throughout the season.

I won’t be sad if Buffalo picks him, but it is a strange fit.

Dahlin, Power, Samuelsson, Bryson, Johnson - all good/great LHD prospects.

Maybe Dahlin could shift to the right side.  I know he has done it outside the NHL.

Shifting sides isn't impossible. Boston's been doing it with Clifton all season. Seems to work okay. 

Also we don't know if Johnson will be any good yet and Bryson is still a question mark imo. If we end up with too many trading one isn't out of the question, but do not undervalue depth at D. Power can be a 30 minute guy too. Don't want to pass up that sort of foundational piece for a possible immediate need forward. 

[dudacek]

18 minutes ago, Thorny said:

"Death, or exile! It's your choice"

"You have chosen death, by exile" 

I'd be much closer to that, at least 

 

I still can't stand the thought of drafting a D first overall twice in 4 years. That's pretty wild imo. It may just be the way the cookie crumbles, but I'd look to avoid that fate if there is a F who's pretty close (especially if we can trade down( @LGR4GM don't shoot me) a spot to an make up the value difference)

Bingo! We’re all building a winning team in our minds and will gravitate to the pieces that best fits our picture of what we need. I love his game the few times I’ve seen him play, but I have to admit it’s mostly the concept of Beniers that makes me want him. I’ve never even watched Power play and I worry about him being Eric Johnson.

16 minutes ago, Curt said:

What?  That makes no sense.

If we are going to get stupid weird, then maybe Power will be #1 on their board but they’ll pick someone else.

Now I’m doubting that they’ll pick Power even more!  You talked me into it!

I don’t know what scouts would say today, but I actually thought he was a little raw, especially defending in transition.

I think Power is tall and skinny and has a lot of developing to do. He’s no Zach Bogosian\Aaron Ekblad 25-at-18 type.

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, Curt said:

3 year rebuild might be a prerequisite to becoming Sabres GM.  At least the forwards in the 2022/23 drafts look great.  Even great D prospects usually take a few years to get good, especially big guys.

Agree with the bold. Stopped after that ( ; ) )cause I don't care about the forwards in the next couple drafts and that's not a silver lining to me

[Hoss]

21 minutes ago, Curt said:

What?  That makes no sense.

If we are going to get stupid weird, then maybe Power will be #1 on their board but they’ll pick someone else.

Now I’m doubting that they’ll pick Power even more!  You talked me into it!

Insult aside yes, this is possible. There are different boards in each draft room.

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Shifting sides isn't impossible. Boston's been doing it with Clifton all season. Seems to work okay. 

Also we don't know if Johnson will be any good yet and Bryson is still a question mark imo. If we end up with too many trading one isn't out of the question, but do not undervalue depth at D. Power can be a 30 minute guy too. Don't want to pass up that sort of foundational piece for a possible immediate need forward. 

It's much more common in third pairing roles

Very very uncommon top pair

[Hoss]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Bingo! We’re all building a winning team in our minds and will gravitate to the pieces that best fits our picture of what we need. I love his game the few times I’ve seen him play, but I have to admit it’s mostly the concept of Beniers that makes me want him. I’ve never even watched Power play and I worry about him being Eric Johnson.

I think Power is tall and skinny and has a lot of developing to do. He’s no Zach Bogosian\Aaron Ekblad 25-at-18 type.

So if you’ve never watched Power play should you even be in the discussion?

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Bingo! We’re all building a winning team in our minds and will gravitate to the pieces that best fits our picture of what we need. I love his game the few times I’ve seen him play, but I have to admit it’s mostly the concept of Beniers that makes me want him. I’ve never even watched Power play and I worry about him being Eric Johnson.

I think Power is tall and skinny and has a lot of developing to do. He’s no Zach Bogosian\Aaron Ekblad 25-at-18 type.

It's not so much the picture of what we need with me. 

In honestly, it's more about the concept of taking a d-man first overall twice in 4 years. I'm sure it's never happened ever, at least in recent history. D-men in general impact the game less than forwards. Ending up with a d-man at FIRST, twice, is exceptionally bad luck

If Power is indisputably the best player in the draft, we are still unlucky that's the case

[Curt]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

To something Dudacek said, I don't worry about Samuelsson, Bryson, Johnson in this context really, more it's about the presence of Dahlin. Taking a guy with the FIRST OVERALL pick you have probably ending up as a second pair D man does seem very strategic to me. You can play two pairs a ton of minutes, true, and that makes it tolerable in terms of the handedness issue, but I still have question as to whether you'd be maximizing value with a second pair d-man role being filled by the pick. 

Make no mistake, even if Power is far and away the most talented player in the draft (he's not) we'll have been unlucky for that to be the draft we drew 1 overall in. Forwards impact the game more. I take my chances with a forward if it's close - they have no idea really who's going to end up better anyways. I just don't see the separation there to go with the d-man, if it was my choice 

Basically how I feel as well.

If they are both great, it will be ok though, even on different pairs.  Find a partner who compliments each.  Skate the 3rd pair low mins.  Give both Dahlin/Power lots of special teams time.

It does kind of limit flexibility though.

[Thorny]

We'd be in a much better spot if the top player was a forward. I'm not "willing" that to be the case and taking a F come hell or high water, but I don't buy that there is a ton of separation 

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

Basically how I feel as well.

If they are both great, it will be ok though, even on different pairs.  Find a partner who compliments each.  Skate the 3rd pair low mins.  Give both Dahlin/Power lots of special teams time.

It does kind of limit flexibility though.

It's ok, yes. My stick in the mud is this is FIRST OVERALL. What a shame. 

[dudacek]

10 minutes ago, Thorny said:

To something Dudacek said, I don't worry about Samuelsson, Bryson, Johnson in this context really, more it's about the presence of Dahlin. Taking a guy with the FIRST OVERALL pick you have probably ending up as a second pair D man doesn't seem very strategic to me. You can play two pairs a ton of minutes, true, and that makes it tolerable in terms of the handedness issue, but I still have question as to whether you'd be maximizing value with a second pair d-man role being filled by the pick. 

Make no mistake, even if Power is far and away the most talented player in the draft (he's not) we'll have been unlucky for that to be the draft we drew 1 overall in. Forwards impact the game more. I take my chances with a forward if it's close - they have no idea really who's going to end up better anyways. I just don't see the separation there to go with the d-man, if it was my choice 

Disagree with your “2nd pair” sentence. I think having the concept of Dahlin and the concept of Power on your first and second pairs can be as effective and as valuable as having Malkin and Crosby on your 1st and 2nd lines.

Otherwise I generally agree with this post.

[Curt]

5 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Insult aside yes, this is possible. There are different boards in each draft room.

Didn’t mean it as such with the S word.

What do you mean by there being different boards in each draft room.  I’m not talking about each scouts’ and Adams personal board.  I’m talking about the Sabres final board that they go to the draft floor with.  That’s the only one that matters.