Draft Lottery (June 2) Thread And Who Sabres Should Draft Thread (All in one!)

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, kas23 said:

A center prospect, plus 2 other decent prospects (ages 19 and 20). All of which will likely contribute on the Sabres roster before this year’s 1OA does. TSN’s Seravalli was the one who first reported the Kings interest. So, if Byfield is off limits, then this is all moot. Cross the Kings of the list and we just lost a great trading partner. However, if this is posturing and it may take more to pry him out, then it’ll take us adding to the trade. 
 

I just think that as Sabres fans, we always overvalue our players and suggest potential trades that would never happen in real life. 

In no world does Kaliyev and Turcotte get you the 1st overall pick, even in this draft.

In no universe does Byfield equal Eichel.

[Curt]

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

In no world does Kaliyev and Turcotte get you the 1st overall pick, even in this draft.

In no universe does Byfield equal Eichel.

I this world, Turcotte and Kaliyev would never be traded for 1 OA, but they might be worth it.

[#freejame]

4 hours ago, Thorny said:

My guess is Power and Beniers go top 2

If that's the case I really hope we go Hughes. 

3 hours ago, darksabre said:

I know people enjoy this stuff, but man, I couldn't possibly care less. No offense 😂

It's the only aspect of the Sabres that is enjoyable anymore

3 hours ago, Weave said:

It's not that.  We've been worshipping the draft for almost 10 years now. 

To quote the late, great BB King, the thrill is gone.

For a lot of people it isn't about worshipping the draft, it's just fun. I follow baseball prospects pretty closely, it's just a fun thing to do. Following the draft and then players as they make their way through the league can be pretty cool. 

[#freejame]

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

I this world, Turcotte and Kaliyev would never be traded for 1 OA, but they might be worth it.

They very well might be. Or Kaliyev doesn't adjust his work ethic and can't keep with the pace of play and Turcotte tops out as a 3C with Beniers becoming ROR 2.0. It's just too risky, we need to acquire as much young depth as we can, especially if we get #1. 

[Curt]

7 minutes ago, #freejame said:

They very well might be. Or Kaliyev doesn't adjust his work ethic and can't keep with the pace of play and Turcotte tops out as a 3C with Beniers becoming ROR 2.0. It's just too risky, we need to acquire as much young depth as we can, especially if we get #1. 

I don’t even bother thinking up stuff like this. An NHL GM just isn’t doing it.

[bob_sauve28]

 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, bob_sauve28 said:

 

So old... 

Here's from last month

 

[LGR4GM]

Love watching this btw. SIZE SIZE SIZE SIZE SIZE!!! Did we mention SIZE! 2 of the main categories they mention for both Edvinsson and Power. 

Size doesn't mean as much as scouts will tell you. 

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Love watching this btw. SIZE SIZE SIZE SIZE SIZE!!! Did we mention SIZE! 2 of the main categories they mention for both Edvinsson and Power. 

Size doesn't mean as much as scouts will tell you. 

Objectively. 

But I don't think GMs generally agree

Scouts have been conditioned to focus on what they know the selectors are looking for, in the end

[LGR4GM]

Here is the thing with Owen Power. Rocket of a shot and he has good skating. His speed is good but so is his agility but I worry about faster players being able to take him wide. He can be backed off the blue line and he is not known for being some overly physical Pronger like player that some scouts seem to compare him to. 

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Objectively. 

But I don't think GMs generally agree

Scouts have been conditioned to focus on what they know the selectors are looking for, in the end

I know they don't agree. See Logan Stanley and Cole Caufield. 

Scouts should be focused on what player will be good at the NHL level. Sure size can help but the thing most don't seem to understand is that it can also hinder. 

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Here is the thing with Owen Power. Rocket of a shot and he has good skating. His speed is good but so is his agility but I worry about faster players being able to take him wide. He can be backed off the blue line and he is not known for being some overly physical Pronger like player that some scouts seem to compare him to. 

He's more like Logan Stanley, but good at hockey, no?

[steveoath]

The big -ve I've seen associated with Power is the lack of physicality. Could he learn to play a more physical game, or is that more in a players nature?

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Here is the thing with Owen Power. Rocket of a shot and he has good skating. His speed is good but so is his agility but I worry about faster players being able to take him wide. He can be backed off the blue line and he is not known for being some overly physical Pronger like player that some scouts seem to compare him to. 

I know they don't agree. See Logan Stanley and Cole Caufield. 

Scouts should be focused on what player will be good at the NHL level. Sure size can help but the thing most don't seem to understand is that it can also hinder. 

 

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

He's more like Logan Stanley, but good at hockey, no?

Haha ya he's my go to as well. Just an atrocious pick at 18 overall 

*in before Ducky says he found his way onto the scoresheet last night

[dudacek]

You guys have pushed your "size doesn't matter" thing too far.

It's like a player's shot: it's not a make or break element, it's a useful tool to have in the toolbox.

It absolutely helps Matty the Mule defend players one on one, it helps Tom Wilson scare the ***** out of the other team and it helped Dave Andreychuk score 500 goals.

Pronger's size helped make him special. He would not have been Pronger at 5'10".

Edited May 20, 2021 by dudacek

[Thorny]

11 minutes ago, dudacek said:

You guys have pushed your "size doesn't matter" thing too far.

It's like a player's shot: it's not a make or break element, it's a useful tool to have in the toolbox.

It absolutely helps Matty the Mule defend players one on one, it helps Tom Wilson scare the ***** out of the other team and it helped Dave Andreychuk score 500 goals.

Pronger's size helped make him special. He would not have been Pronger at 5'10".

If I had taken this position, I would argue for it at this point

[LGR4GM]

24 minutes ago, Thorny said:

He's more like Logan Stanley, but good at hockey, no?

No, Power is not like Stanley. More like Myers if you want a comparable or a poor man's headman. 

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

No, Power is not like Stanley. More like Myers if you want a comparable or a poor man's headman. 

Full disclosure I just wanted to get my Logan Stanley rib in 

[LGR4GM]

16 minutes ago, dudacek said:

You guys have pushed your "size doesn't matter" thing too far.

It's like a player's shot: it's not a make or break element, it's a useful tool to have in the toolbox.

It absolutely helps Matty the Mule defend players one on one, it helps Tom Wilson scare the ***** out of the other team and it helped Dave Andreychuk score 500 goals.

Pronger's size helped make him special. He would not have been Pronger at 5'10".

Size doesn't matter if you are good at hockey but it can help. You are oversimplifying and bastardizing what I am saying. 

Owen Power is first overall because he is 6'6" not because he is better at hockey and specifically uses that tool to impose his will on others. There's some flaws in his game and they include not being physical enough in his own end and closing gaps correctly consistently (both improved this season). 

You don't draft 6'4" Tom Wilson when 5'10" Jack Hughes is on the board. That is how drafts work though because when you talk about a player and the first thing is "he's got great size" you have failed as a talent evaluator. 

Pronger in particular was good at hockey and sure his size gave him that extra special part. But he had to be awesome at hockey first. Size CAN be a useful tool but just having it doesn't make it so. 

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Size doesn't matter if you are good at hockey but it can help. You are oversimplifying and bastardizing what I am saying. 

Owen Power is first overall because he is 6'6" not because he is better at hockey and specifically uses that tool to impose his will on others. There's some flaws in his game and they include not being physical enough in his own end and closing gaps correctly consistently (both improved this season). 

You don't draft 6'4" Tom Wilson when 5'10" Jack Hughes is on the board. That is how drafts work though because when you talk about a player and the first thing is "he's got great size" you have failed as a talent evaluator. 

Pronger in particular was good at hockey and sure his size gave him that extra special part. But he had to be awesome at hockey first. Size CAN be a useful tool but just having it doesn't make it so. 

There's a contradiction in your first sentence! 

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Full disclosure I just wanted to get my Logan Stanley rib in 

He is my textbook example of a guy who was overdrafted. Well him and Zachary Sensyhyn. 

Here is another example if you are looking at prospect A) Matt Barzal and B) Zachary Senyshyn and your scouts say well Senyshyn is taller... you should fire your scouts and start over. That is my point, size shouldn't just automatically give a guy the edge. Skills should. Eklund is going to slide in this draft because he's 5'10" and it will be a mistake. 

[bob_sauve28]

44 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Love watching this btw. SIZE SIZE SIZE SIZE SIZE!!! Did we mention SIZE! 2 of the main categories they mention for both Edvinsson and Power. 

Size doesn't mean as much as scouts will tell you. 

I know, first thing he said. 

[Thorny]

Size is often overrated /thread 

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

There's a contradiction in your first sentence! 

No it isn't. If you suck at hockey but are 6"6" you are going to still suck. If you are AWESOME at hockey and have a growth spurt going from 6' to 6'4" you aren't good simply because you got taller, but it can help you if you incorporate it into your game. It is why we see so many 6 foot or shooter guys being so fiesty. They don't have the size to just let smaller weaker guys bounce off so they have to work and that translate even if they grow bigger. 

Size only really matters at the extremes. 5'8"... well ya that might limit you. 6'6" well yea that might limit you. 

[WildCard]

Just now, Thorny said:

Size is often overrated /thread 

Well now I feel better at least

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Size is often overrated /thread 

Yes that is my point. It isn't that size doesn't matter at all but it's impact on how good a player can or will be are exaggerated. 

Just now, WildCard said:

Well now I feel better at least

Even small carnival rides can be fun 😉