Should Pro Sports "Jump the Line" for a Vaccine?

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, #freejame said:

Wasted doses have more to do with the nature of the vaccines than anything else, however, there are definitely terrible policy in place that prevents those doses from finding a suitor and that falls solely on state governments implementing these policies. If it’s two hours until closing and you have one hundred vaccines remaining with only twenty scheduled recipients they need to just open their doors to the first 80 people off the street, priority be damned. This is not the case in any state that I know of. 

That's precisely my point.  Every place should have waiting lists and text blasts so that no vaccine goes to waste.  So why is it so terrible if a hockey club says to pharmacy X if you have extra doses one day, call us and we'll send our team doctor to collect them.  Where is the harm except social media optics?    

[#freejame]

Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

That's precisely my point.  Every place should have waiting lists and text blasts so that no vaccine goes to waste.  So why is it so terrible if a hockey club says to pharmacy X if you have extra doses one day, call us and we'll send our team doctor to collect them.  Where is the harm except social media optics?    

The high priority people on the list right now don’t have the mobility to quickly respond. It is 100% an issue, however (someone smart correct me if I’m wrong), a team doctor will almost certainly not have the time to retrieve and administer leftover doses before they are rendered useless. That is why I said clinics need to just open their doors at days end. At the same time, a team doctor should be able to administer an exact number of doses without any issue or waste and as long as these wasteful policies are in place people should not take issue with exacting amounts of doses being administered. 

[Curt]

I would say that the segment of the population represented here on this forum is a good cross section of those who enjoy hockey the most.  The fact that only a small percentage of THIS group support giving preferential vaccine treatment to hockey entertainers, I think, tells you everything you need to know.

[miles]

11 hours ago, SwampD said:

I think smokers should go to the end of the line.

I dont care about them enough to make them fo to the end of the line, but they shouldn't be prioritized because of it. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

8 hours ago, Curt said:

I would say that the segment of the population represented here on this forum is a good cross section of those who enjoy hockey the most.  The fact that only a small percentage of THIS group support giving preferential vaccine treatment to hockey entertainers, I think, tells you everything you need to know.

Lol.  So your saying that you’d rather throw unclaimed doses in the garbage instead of them going to a pro athlete.  

The whole statement of preferential treatment is like a badly worded political poll question.  No one would say give healthy athletes a dose over an at risk person.  That’s a emotional response without looking at the real situation on the ground.

Reality is much different.  Thousands of doses are tossed daily.  So the proposition should be “would you be ok if pro sports teams acquired unclaimed vaccine doses for their athletes and staff.” 

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Why should they call a hockey team when they could call a school and inoculate teachers?

That’s fine also, except those teachers are already prioritized at least here.

Edited February 4, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[Curt]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Lol.  So your saying that you’d rather throw unclaimed doses in the garbage instead of going to a pro athlete.  

The whole statement of preferential treatment is like a badly worded political poll question.  No one would say give healthy athletes a dose over an at risk person.  That’s a emotional response without looking at the real situation on the ground.

Reality is much different.  Thousands of doses are tossed daily.  So the proposition should be “would you be ok if pro sports teams acquired unclaimed vaccine doses for their athletes and staff.” 

The answer to this very specific question you ask is yes.  I would be fine with that.  You are correct that there is a certain amount of vaccine “waste” that happens.  I would be happy with anyone who can getting those vaccines, preferably someone in a high risk group though.

My question to you is: is this scenario that you present, of NHL teams canvassing pharmacies for leftover doses, a real life proposal?  Or is it just an idea that you have had?

I ask because I feel like it is not realistic.  I suppose it may be feasible, however, it seems unlikely for a large corporation.  I would think that if the NHL is going to assist their players in getting vaccinated, it would be an organized program with a controlled schedule, not done piecemeal from leftover vaccines.

So, in short, I would be fine with your very specific proposal, but that goes for just about anyone else in addition to NHL players, however I find it unlikely to occur.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

So you agree that Teachers should be called before a hockey team.

I never teachers should be prioritized.  I said given the waste in the system, I have zero problem with otherwise unclaimed vaccines going to them. I also believe the number needed to save an entire industry is so small that it would deny no one an opportunity to get a vaccine as we are wasting more in hours each day then would be needed to protect the NHL and NBA.  

We are talking 2500 doses to save an industry that has thousands of job associated with it and entertains millions on a daily basis.

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

@curt

I have no idea what teams are or are not doing.  If I were running a team, I’d certainly be looking to acquire doses. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You could prioritize by school. Let's say you need 1,000 doses for Orchard Park, that seems more worthwhile than giving the Sabres 100. Even if it was done piecemeal. 

That’s fantasyland.  Vaccine sites are throwing doses away at the end of the day everyday around this country.  The Sabre need 50 max. That’s it.  That is less then the waste from just one vaccine site daily.  

So again you want those 50 doses in the garbage because Orchard Park schools didn’t get 1000 for their teachers.

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So your priority would be to save industry?

Yes, especially at such a low cost. 

 

[miles]

I dont know how it is in ny since im in nj. There is a long waiting list that you have to sign up for with the vaccine. 

If there is unclaimed doses at the end of the day, they said in the form that they will contact people by email and say they have doses and you can claim it if you can get there by x time. 

In Nj they aren't throwing them away. They are giving it to people that want it, in the priority order defined by the state

 

This is a global health issue and prioritizing young, healthy athletes over anyone else for entertainment reasons only is nonsense.

 

I signed up in nj close to a month ago or whatever day the sign up went live. I am a high risk person, who has basically been a hermit for a year. I haven't seen my family in a year because of it. I would lose my skull if they prioritized athletes over people that realyy need and want it. 

 

It would be different if the virus affextrd young people in top notch shape, but it doesn't.  This being a discussion at all baffles me

Edited February 4, 2021 by miles

[GASabresIUFAN]

23 minutes ago, miles said:

I dont know how it is in ny since im in nj. There is a long waiting list that you have to sign up for with the vaccine. 

If there is unclaimed doses at the end of the day, they said in the form that they will contact people by email and say they have doses and you can claim it if you can get there by x time. 

In Nj they aren't throwing them away. They are giving it to people that want it, in the priority order defined by the state

 

This is a global health issue and prioritizing young, healthy athletes over anyone else for entertainment reasons only is nonsense.

 

I signed up in nj close to a month ago or whatever day the sign up went live. I am a high risk person, who has basically been a hermit for a year. I haven't seen my family in a year because of it. I would lose my skull if they prioritized athletes over people that realyy need and want it. 

 

It would be different if the virus affextrd young people in top notch shape, but it doesn't.  This being a discussion at all baffles me

That isn't true.  My pulmonologist's nurse, a 20 something marathon runner, just came back to work after a 5 month layoff following a COVID infection that went to her nerves and caused nerve damage.  This virus will find any weakness in your body regardless of age or health history.  Yes younger people are less likely to have a severe reaction to the virus but they aren't immune to that either.

Also does are being thrown away daily in NJ  https://bronx.news12.com/officials-probe-usable-covid-19-vaccines-thrown-away-in-new-jersey

Edited February 4, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[PASabreFan]

A good way of looking at this is whether you'd give your mother's dose to Jack Eichel.

Well...

 

[miles]

11 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That isn't true.  My pulmonologist's nurse, a 20 something marathon runner, just came back to work after a 5 month layoff following a COVID infection that went to her nerves and caused nerve damage.  This virus will find any weakness in your body regardless of age or health history.  Yes younger people are less likely to have a severe reaction to the virus but they aren't immune to that either.

Also does are being thrown away daily in NJ  https://bronx.news12.com/officials-probe-usable-covid-19-vaccines-thrown-away-in-new-jersey

I was speaking generally. of course there will be young people that get it bad.

 

It sickens me that nj is throwing away doses when they said on the site they will contact people to see who can get there right away

Edited February 4, 2021 by miles

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

Priority seems kinda straightforward, no?

1) Medical Professionals/Essential Workers - since they see a higher number of opportunities for infection and their work is critical to maintain health and/or safety

2) People with higher likelyhood of mortality if infected (50+ years old, asthma, etc)

3) People with higher opportunities of exposure (people unable to work from home, family members of those in groups 1 & 2)

4) Everyone else who wants it

I think professional hockey players falls into number 3

 

This would all be a moot point if there was some sort of coordinated and honest effort from leadership at the federal level from day 1 to support the development and distribution of the vaccine.  I've worked in strategic planning for global supply chains for 20+ years and it was clear this was mismanaged from the beginning: from initial funding, through the coordination of distribution through the states, it has been very messy and we've seen varying degrees of success. 

It feels a little dishonest to make this a battle between elitism of athletes and regular people...

Edited February 4, 2021 by SHAAAUGHT!!!

[miles]

2 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

A good way of looking at this is whether you'd give your mother's dose to Jack Eichel.

Well...

 

Or to matt irwin 🤣

[miles]

6 minutes ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

Priority seems kinda straightforward, no?

1) Medical Professionals/Essential Workers - since they see a higher number of opportunities for infection and their work is critical to maintain health and/or safety

2) People with higher likelyhood of mortality if infected (50+ years old, asthma, etc)

3) People with higher opportunities of exposure (people unable to work from home, family members of those in groups 1 & 2)

4) Everyone else who wants it

I think professional hockey players falls into number 3

 

This would all be a moot point if there was some sort of coordinated and honest effort from leadership at the federal level from day 1 to support the development and distribution of the vaccine.  I've worked in strategic planning for global supply chains for 20+ years and it was clear this was mismanaged from the beginning: from initial funding, through the coordination of distribution through the states, it has been very messy and we've seen varying degrees of success. 

It feels a little dishonest to make this a battle between elitism of athletes and regular people...

My sister in law was suspiciously able to get it for her and her husband. she said she used the obesity clause, which is nonsence because they are both average build. I say its suspicious because she works for pfizer. If she said i work for Pfizer so i was able to get it, i would not question it. However her being able to not only get an appointment for herself and her husband the same day it was available seemed too suspicious to me

Edited February 4, 2021 by miles

[GASabresIUFAN]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It isn't a low cost. You are saying we should prioritize the industry of hockey over the teachers in schools for our example. 

Doesn't work like that.  Orchard Park will get their doses regardless of whether 50 go to the Sabres.  School Administration will arrange for their teachers and staff to get the vaccine.  

The Sabres getting 50 will not deny one teacher from getting the vaccine.  I also linked up thread to stories and stats regarding the waste. 

[KC Scouts]

I'm actually quite pleased with the fervor of the arguments here.......

3-4 months ago there were many people saying they weren't going to get the vaccine or they were going to wait......

NOW, The vaccine climate has changed, we have people clamoring for it !!! Arguing about who should get it first and when.....etc.

Recent belief from authorities is that we should be able to obtain well above the necessary threshold of  70-80%, and it will happen its just a matter of time.

WE are going to beat this thing.

WE are going to get back to enjoying life again

AND

WE may actually have a Sabres team that will be exciting to watch and make the playoffs (OK, that may be far off in the future) 

 

[miles]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Doesn't work like that.  Orchard Park will get their doses regardless of whether 50 go to the Sabres.  School Administration will arrange for their teachers and staff to get the vaccine.  

The Sabres getting 50 will not deny one teacher from getting the vaccine.  I also linked up thread to stories and stats regarding the waste. 

It doesn't deny them, but it would certainly delay them

There is not an unlimited supply at this point. Every dose given to high risk person is reducing the death rate. Giving it to someone low risk of serious health issues is silly.

 

Why not give it to actors first or movie stars. 

 

Would you like to give your dose and a spouse's dose to matt irwin and  sheary and the next one in line for you to actors and anyone else who is famous entertainment people.

Where does it end, it is not even a matter of it being pushed off a day or so, there are not enough doses for the people whos lives are literally at risk, and you want to give it to someone who has a high percentage of not even getting sick or having a very mild case.

Im not raising my hand to donate my dose, i was surprised they didnt just cancel the season 

[SwampD]

23 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

A good way of looking at this is whether you'd give your mother's dose to Jack Eichel.

Well...

 

The is BS. If you want to oversimplify it to the point of being disingenuous, you could have at least asked if we would give our dose to Jack Eichel.

13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It isn't a low cost. You are saying we should prioritize the industry of hockey over the teachers in schools for our example. 

Teachers can still teach, though. You can’t play hockey over Zoom.

[miles]

9 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Teachers can still teach, though. You can’t play hockey over Zoom

Hockey is so low on the essential jobs list, its shocking this was the argument. 

Lets try this. If there are 50 people in each area that are willing to donate their dose to the nhl teams, by all means go ahead. But you would then be moved to their position in line. Which would be towards the end as they are healthy, young people. 

If you can find 50 people to do it, more power to them. I wouldn't offer mine up

Edited February 4, 2021 by miles

[LabattBlue]

I know two people who work for different healthcare organizations, but are office staff(one is HR and one is payroll) and not even located in the healthcare facility.  Both have been vaccinated.  It’s a big joke and I can only imagine how often shenanigans like this are happening. Yet here I sit in my early 60’s wondering when I will get my opportunity. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by LabattBlue

[GASabresIUFAN]

13 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Delaware clearly has management issues.  Good thing a politician from Delaware isn’t running things.

The country is vaccinating over 1,000,000 people a day.  Stories are everywhere facilities are throwing away doses because of poor in state distribution, bad regulations and sign up programs.  

But lets do the numbers.  NY for example has already received 2.3 mill doses, but for some reason has only used 77%.  https://covid19vaccine.health.ny.gov/covid-19-vaccine-tracker
So 600,000 in NY are either yet to be administered or have been wasted. Most likely wasted because of Cuomo’s overly restrictive regulations, that have now been loosened.     https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/10/nyregion/new-york-vaccine-guidelines.html

Wasted vaccines are everywhere. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/thousands-covid-19-vaccines-wind-garbage-because-fed-state-guidelines-n1254364

I’m talking about 2500 doses across two nations and over 30 states and provinces.  As I said before the amount is de minims.  

Wouldn’t you rather have them given to athletes vs. thrown away?  Y’all are more worried about the Twitter response.  Given the waste inherit in this system vaccinating athletes to help protect their health isn’t preventing anyone from getting the vaccine.  It will just prevent 2500 wasted doses.

Remember given my age and health history, I’m in the next group to get the vaccine, yet I’m advocating for vaccinating the athletes. Why, because it is such a small usage but provides so much to society.  
 

PS.  Our job is not to protect the 8 billion in the world.  Are we supposed to send 2500 extra doses to China.  Seriously? We need to protect all our citizens and residents before 1 dose goes elsewhere.  Once that’s completed, then we can mobilize to help in places that can’t help themsleves.

FYI

[SwampD]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You think you can teach over zoom? You have any idea what a shitshow it has been doing that? You have no idea and you don't care. Teachers have to teach, hockey can literally stop for 10 months and THERE IS NO IMPACT. You have any idea how much learning has been impacted by going to zoom? Any idea what the attention span of a kid on a computer is? Any idea about family life for some of these kids? Any concept of the time management skills required do be a fully virtual environment? Any idea of all the behavioral and emotional issues that you can't teach over zoom are being handled? Thanks for showing your privilege. 

You can hold your hand over a bullet wound to slow the bleeding too but unless you get better help the persons gonna die. 

"Teachers can still teach though, you can't play hockey over zoom".... 

I totally agree and shouldn’t have used teachers in my example. Others can work from home, though. There is no reason why they should get it before someone who needs to go to work in order to do their job, no?

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It is quite possibly the dumbest argument ever used on this board. 

Settle down.

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

I know two people who work for different healthcare organizations, but are office staff(one is HR and one is payroll) and not even located in the healthcare facility.  Both have been vaccinated.  It’s a big joke and I can only who often shenanigans like this are happening. Yet here I sit in my early 60’s wondering when I will get my opportunity. 

I understand your frustration but it is impossible to come up with not only a perfect system to administer the vaccine but also have perfect execution regardless what priority list was agreed to. A new administration took over a non-existent or more accurately chaotic program and is trying to put together a rational plan with in the early stage a limited supply of vaccines. (Not being political but describing the situation.)   

Currently, there is a priority list that starts with the health care employees and includes people in elderly care facilities. They definitely should be at the top of the list because they are in one case most exposed and in the other case the most vulnerable. 

Jumping professional athletes ahead of the top tier groups that includes teachers, food services etc. is not fair. The good news is that the vaccine sources are increasing and the logistical organization to handle the expanding vaccine population is being installed. In a month or two the ramping up of the administering infrastructure should be in place, and they should have enough product to steadily administer. 

My point is that in a month, or more likely two, professional athletes will have access to the vaccines. They should wait their turn. It's not too far off.  And it is not difficult to  understand your frustration.