Doohickie Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 We need to trade Dahlin before we ruin the best defensive talent in a generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Doohickie said: We need to trade Dahlin before we ruin the best defensive talent in a generation. Ruin? Nah. Waste? eehhh.............. Edited January 31, 2020 by Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted January 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 11 minutes ago, Doohickie said: We need to trade Dahlin before we ruin the best defensive talent in a generation. They need to do something to overhaul this roster. Give me a better plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 hours ago, Thorny said: One, Dahlin's not getting that in the next couple years, so... And two, if we have to trade fricking Dahlin cause Botts gave too much money to other Dmen, lol, enough. I honestly can't believe you uttered the phrase, "if the price is too high, I move on" for Dahlin. He's top top priority on this team after Eichel, full stop. You move other players before him, regardless of cost. I can't scoff at the idea of trading him, entirely, cause it's ALWAYS about the return. But he's not a, well, I don't want to pay him so trade him type player. You have to build a team, and you need money to do that. Teams overspend on the wrong positions often enough that it's become crystal clear to me that the only place you should spend the bulk of your cap is on forwards. Dahlin's future salary could pay for two perfectly good defensemen if he ends up getting something like 11 million per. That's just too much for one defenseman. Guys like Weber, Suter, Subban, Karlsson, what are they really worth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, inkman said: They need to do something to overhaul this roster. Give me a better plan. Reinhart, Risto, and throw anyone not signed into a wood chipper. (Excluding Olafsson) Waive Hutton and depending on Okposo's condition either waive him put him on LTIR You build through bringing in hungry players who will never surrender, maybe a few old vets who still want to play. Trading Dahlin will accomplish nothing, it will just be another ROR trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, darksabre said: You have to build a team, and you need money to do that. Teams overspend on the wrong positions often enough that it's become crystal clear to me that the only place you should spend the bulk of your cap is on forwards. Dahlin's future salary could pay for two perfectly good defensemen if he ends up getting something like 11 million per. That's just too much for one defenseman. Guys like Weber, Suter, Subban, Karlsson, what are they really worth? I'm not sure I see all of those guys in the category of what Dahlin likely achieves, but regardless, Karlsson was carrying the Sens as a Conn-Smythe level talent the year they nearly made the final. He got hurt after, but that level of play is capable of carrying a team in the playoffs, which is the whole goal. Also, the pull of Dahlin is also that we can combine a Dman like that with a Forward like Jack. Something Ottawa never had. He's a first overall talent, he's not even going to make 11 per, you find a way to keep him. It's significantly more valuable than 2 "perfectly good dmen" if you have a competent GM who can find a decent player once in a while for a little less money to offset. A bargain deal? Unheard of, I know. We're all scared to pay our actual good players (Reinhart) because we are so used not having a GM who can fill a spot or two otherwise on the roster with a deft financial hand. Edited January 31, 2020 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) Want an upcoming contract on D we shouldn't pay? Montour. Botterill is going to have to distance himself from the fact he gave up a first for this guy. Edited January 31, 2020 by Thorny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 17 minutes ago, darksabre said: You have to build a team, and you need money to do that. Teams overspend on the wrong positions often enough that it's become crystal clear to me that the only place you should spend the bulk of your cap is on forwards. Dahlin's future salary could pay for two perfectly good defensemen if he ends up getting something like 11 million per. That's just too much for one defenseman. Guys like Weber, Suter, Subban, Karlsson, what are they really worth? Dahlin’s next contract, if for 8 yrs, will probably in the $8-$10M range. $11M would be really high and I doubt it happens. Guys like Weber, Suter, Subban, and Karlsson are worth a ton when they are in their primes. When they are getting old and breaking down, not so much. Dahlin won’t be getting old for quite some time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted January 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 23 minutes ago, thewookie1 said: Reinhart, Risto, and throw anyone not signed into a wood chipper. (Excluding Olafsson) Like I said, deck chairs on the titanic. That accomplished nothing. Probably makes the team worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Thorny said: Want an upcoming contract on D we shouldn't pay? Montour. Botterill is going to have to distance himself from the fact he gave up a first for this guy. I guess the question is: What kind of salary would he require? It might not be that much. What does a 30-35 point offensive D cost? $3.5M-$4.5M? I haven’t tried to figure it out. My mind has shifted a bit this year though. Coming into the season I thought they should move Risto. Now I think they should move one of Risto/Montour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 Just now, inkman said: Like I said, deck chairs on the titanic. That accomplished nothing. Probably makes the team worse. Well trading Dahlin or Eichel for that matter wouldn't do anything but add more chairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 minute ago, inkman said: Like I said, deck chairs on the titanic. That accomplished nothing. Probably makes the team worse. Throw out some hypothetical, reasonable trades of some “core” pieces that would actually make the team better. Teams don’t generally get better by trading away their best players. It’s not unheard of, but it’s not the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted January 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, thewookie1 said: Well trading Dahlin or Eichel for that matter wouldn't do anything but add more chairs. Not if you get the right pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted January 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Curt said: Throw out some hypothetical, reasonable trades of some “core” pieces that would actually make the team better. Teams don’t generally get better by trading away their best players. It’s not unheard of, but it’s not the norm. Dahlin, Mittelstadt, Thompson, Bogosian, Pilut for Nico Hischier, Taylor Hall, Wayne Simmonds, PK Subban, Miles Wood Not sure if the salaries work out but you give the Devils a group of young players they can build around (along with whatever super high pick they will have this year while the Sabres get veterans that can step right in and a future star in Nico. I don't love the idea but it's something like what you asked for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, inkman said: Dahlin, Mittelstadt, Thompson, Bogosian, Pilut for Nico Hischier, Taylor Hall, Wayne Simmonds, PK Subban, Miles Wood Not sure if the salaries work out but you give the Devils a group of young players they can build around (along with whatever super high pick they will have this year while the Sabres get veterans that can step right in and a future star in Nico. I don't love the idea but it's something like what you asked for. Good news Ink, EA Sports NHL 2019 accepted your trade! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, inkman said: Dahlin, Mittelstadt, Thompson, Bogosian, Pilut for Nico Hischier, Taylor Hall, Wayne Simmonds, PK Subban, Miles Wood Not sure if the salaries work out but you give the Devils a group of young players they can build around (along with whatever super high pick they will have this year while the Sabres get veterans that can step right in and a future star in Nico. I don't love the idea but it's something like what you asked for. So Dahlin, Mittelstadt, Thompson and Pilut for Hischer, Subban and Wood? Bogo is a FA, Simmons is a FA, Hall is a FA and not even a Devil anymore. Traded to the Coyotes weeks ago. Also Subban is playing like poop and due $9M per for 2 more years. Edited January 31, 2020 by Curt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Curt said: So Dahlin, Mittelstadt, Thompson and Pilut for Hischer, Subban and Wood? Bogo is a FA, Simmons is a FA, Hall is a FA and not even a Devil anymore. Traded to the Coyotes weeks ago. I hadn't done the newest roster update, sue me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted January 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Curt said: So Dahlin, Mittelstadt, Thompson and Pilut for Hischer, Subban and Wood? Bogo is a FA, Simmons is a FA, Hall is a FA and not even a Devil anymore. Traded to the Coyotes weeks ago. Also Subban is playing like poop and due $9M per for 2 more years. I just threw something against the wall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 5 hours ago, Curt said: I don’t see the multiple resets. What was the 1st reset? There were changes, of course, and there was a shift to a skill over heavy type of team, but it was all fringe guys who where changed out. All he did was make a couple small trades and sign a couple low end FAs to fill out the roster. Scandella/Pommer for Foligno/Ennis was the big move. That’s not a reset. He didn’t move any big pieces. I agree that they took year 1 to evaluate. Then the reset came. Moving out the bigger pieces who they didn’t see as good fits. Kane, ROR, Lehner. And bringing in pieces that they though were. Skinner, Hutton, Sheary, Thompson, Berglund. That was the “reset”. I wouldn’t call firing Housley a reset either. It was just firing a coach who wasn’t working. The roster wasn’t changed much. Am considering that 1st change in the philosophy of how to roster a squad as a reset when the type of team they were building (LA Kings/Anaheim model) switched to a smaller/ faster team. Delaying the window of being competitive by a couple of years punting O'Reilly for middling futures and dreck would be the 2nd. Again, haven't fully fleshed it out and could be convinced by a compelling case that they aren't separate. But for now, am sticking to that thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, Taro T said: Am considering that 1st change in the philosophy of how to roster a squad as a reset when the type of team they were building (LA Kings/Anaheim model) switched to a smaller/ faster team. Delaying the window of being competitive by a couple of years punting O'Reilly for middling futures and dreck would be the 2nd. Again, haven't fully fleshed it out and could be convinced by a compelling case that they aren't separate. But for now, am sticking to that thought. So what was the extent of the roster changes during the “reset” of that initial Botterill offseason? I feel like it was pretty minimal to be considered a reset. No major players were changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, inkman said: Not if you get the right pieces. I don't want new lottery tickets and the ability to watch Dahlin turn into the next Chara story in a different city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 36 minutes ago, inkman said: I just threw something against the wall That’s fine, but it did nothing to convince me that there are good trades out there that involve Dahlin, or Eichel. That’s what you think the way to go is, no? Anything less is just shuffling deck chairs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted January 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, Curt said: That’s fine, but it did nothing to convince me that there are good trades out there that involve Dahlin, or Eichel. That’s what you think the way to go is, no? Anything less is just shuffling deck chairs? I'd only be for it if it made sense. And I have no desire for Jack to get traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 5 hours ago, Thorny said: I posted this exactly all summer and people just got mad lol We took on the world together, with true sometimes when he felt like showing up 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsam4031 Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 i would trade Dahlin in a second if we got anywhere near a lindross haul for him. The only problem with that is that JB would be the one picking players and have no confidence whatsoever that he can pick the correct guys. i like Dahlins ceiling but at this point im willing to trade him for some talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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