Is there a Rasmus Dahlin Blockbuster trade to be had?

[Curt]

1 hour ago, WildCard said:

If we trade Dahlin I'll legit switch teams

If they trade Eichel or Dahlin in the next few years, I’ll legit switch teams too.

[In The Buff]

Seeing some of the comments about how this could be a good idea & how it'd jump start our improvement & all that jazz, has me think of O'Reilly & how people thought the same thing then. That didn't turn out well & now we want to try it again but with Dahlin?

I think all these years of missing the playoffs has made a lot of us crazy.

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, MillerVaive said:

Seeing some of the comments about how this could be a good idea & how it'd jump start our improvement & all that jazz, has me think of O'Reilly & how people thought the same thing then. That didn't turn out well & now we want to try it again but with Dahlin?

I think all these years of missing the playoffs has made a lot of us crazy.

No no no. Here is what we do. We trade Dahlin to Tampa. We get back Mitch Stephens, Braydon Coburn, Devante Stephens and a 1st round pick in 2021 for Dahlin. See that wa we get a center, a defender, another defender and pick! It all works and we shoot to the top of the league. 

#allthesarcasmicanmusterinonepost

[darksabre]

At first blush the entire premise of this thread made me recoil. But then I took some time to think about my beliefs about how you build a team, use your cap, etc.

I don't want to trade Dahlin. But, there is going to be a point where I might not object, and it's going to be when he signs his first major contract. 

I generally believe a team shouldn't spend much over a quarter of its cap on defense. Teams that do don't tend to win Cups. 

If Dahlin is going to get paid 10mil/yr at some point in the next couple years, I'm not sure I have the stomach for that. If he's going to get 8 I'd feel better. 

It's really going to come down to what is best for this team. Right now Dahlin doesn't cost much of anything so there's no reason to trade him. You can spend on forwards for now and hope you sign Dahlin for the right price. 

If the price is too high though, I move on. I don't think a franchise d man is as valuable as having good forwards. Look at San Jose right now... 

[DarthEbriate]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

No no no. Here is what we do. We trade Dahlin to Tampa. We get back Mitch Stephens, Braydon Coburn, Devante Stephens and a 1st round pick in 2021 for Dahlin. See that wa we get a center, a defender, another defender and pick! It all works and we shoot to the top of the league. 

#allthesarcasmicanmusterinonepost

And Point and a 1st. ?

It would have to be Herschel Walker-level-crazy. It would require a GM who is mad like Ditka about a RB. It's not impossible, but it's not happening either. And besides, we should keep him. He's going to improve.

[DarthEbriate]

8 minutes ago, darksabre said:

If Dahlin is going to get paid 10mil/yr at some point in the next couple years, I'm not sure I have the stomach for that. If he's going to get 8 I'd feel better. 

It's really going to come down to what is best for this team. Right now Dahlin doesn't cost much of anything so there's no reason to trade him. You can spend on forwards for now and hope you sign Dahlin for the right price. 

If the price is too high though, I move on. I don't think a franchise d man is as valuable as having good forwards. Look at San Jose right now... 

I cropped a bit for space and to target a few specifics -- but all good points.

I'm already wondering how Dahlin decides to proceed with his second contract. Does he opt for a slightly lower-paying bridge (on what could very well still be a junk team) and play for earlier free agency (or be able to suggest a trade)? Or does he agree to lock up forever with a franchise that has gone nowhere in a decade? And of those two options, which is the more valuable commodity to be traded to another team?

(All with caveat that I hope we don't have to make a decision on trading him until multiple Cups have been won and he's in his late 30s and we're starting a rebuild and want to loan him out to an up-and-coming contender who needs his PP savvy to get them over the hump.)

[LGR4GM]

15 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

And Point and a 1st. ?

It would have to be Herschel Walker-level-crazy. It would require a GM who is mad like Ditka about a RB. It's not impossible, but it's not happening either. And besides, we should keep him. He's going to improve.

If you want me to do this seriously... 

Cirelli, Point, Sergachev, and a pick might get me to think about moving Dahlin.  Is this overpayment? Yes but then again I am gambling on Dahlin not being very good. 

Edited January 29, 2020 by LGR4GM

[DarthEbriate]

12 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If you want me to do this seriously... 

Cirelli, Point, Sergachev, and a pick might get me to think about moving Dahlin.  Is this overpayment? Yes but then again I am gambling on Dahlin not being very good. 

Nah, no need to take it seriously. My over-the-top wish list just had the extra picks and 2C coming back.

I think something this big has to be the starting asking price to any team. You have to get them already thinking that Dahlin is the greatest thing since blue milk -- then begin the negotiations and haggling. I don't believe Tampa feels they're a Dahlin away from a Cup, but they might relish the idea of going from peak-Hedman to peak-Dahlin.

Unrelated to this thread: I wonder what TB's GM's psyche is heading in to this trade deadline. Risto was the big rumor last year. Nothing happened. And then, they meekly bow out in 4 games. Maybe this year they come back to JBot and are more willing for a shake-up.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, DHawerchuk10 said:

But see....what has he done for you to say this with such certainty ?  If you take out the excuse of his age, his play over the past two years has been largely lackluster, and I would say he's flat out struggled this year .  And speaking of the age excuse, isn't he supposed to be a prodigy and thus far ahead of the curve for typical defensemen his age?  The guy looks like a 19/20 year old defensemen most nights.  If he was a forward, we'd all barking to send him down, but alas we must put our rose colored defensemen glasses on.

He shows spurts, but overall, m'eh.  I think this would be a good time to have someone else buy the hype if we could get a boatload for him. 

How the heck do you "take out the excuse of age?"  The kid won't turn 20 until 1/2 the league is in the playoffs.

You say he "looks like a 19/20 year old defenseman most nights."  You mean he looks like he's playing in Juniors like all but the smallest handful of defenders are playing?

He's got the 2nd most points ever for an 18 year old defenseman* and on pace for the second most ever for a teenaged defenseman*.  Unlike Turgeon and Housley, he isn't afraid to play physical (even though he's still just a kid) and he's willing to go to the "dirty areas" (which explains his concussion from earlier this year).

All of this against NHLers playing for a team that is fairly lacking on top end talent.  Imagine what he could do on Tampa.

 

* If teenage D-men that played a significant portion of time at forward are discounted, he vaults to 1st and pacing for 1st on those metrics.

[...]

3 hours ago, inkman said:

Thinking about how to fix the Sabres, the only thing I can come up with that isn't shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic is a Blockbuster invloving Dahlin.  

I know this sounds blasphemous to most but did fans feel that way prior to Turgeon for LaFontaine?  Is there a superstar forward in his prime we could pry away from a team looking to rebuild around a player like Dahlin.  

I can't think of any but I'm sure my friends here at Sabrespace can come up with something. 

Or completely blast me for even making the suggestion.  Blast away...?

So, we're talking about trading Dahlin, but Samson is off the table?

[DarthEbriate]

7 minutes ago, ... said:

So, we're talking about trading Dahlin, but Samson is off the table?

hehehe... Samson has his own thread for this. ?  

(For the right price, no one is off the table, even Gretzky. But Dahlin could get more in return than Samson.)

[bob_sauve28]

Inkman? Come on man! We just need a good goalie, that gets us above sinking, then a few forwards that can score and we are rolling. Bad goaltending can make a team look terrible in the same way Hasek made that '99 team a SC finalist. 

[Kruppstahl]

I wouldn't trade Dahlin, but Inkman's thinking here is spot on.

Without a shakeup that impacts the core of this team, we are going nowhere.

Now ask yourselves who we have that might garner serious interest around the league and result in quality coming back at us.

The only real name is Sam Reinhart, with honorable mention going to Risto, who I think still does have some value.

This is yet another reason to move on from Reinhart.

I would LOVE to see Reinhart and Risto both gone after the deadline as part of 1 or 2 packages of moves with multiple assets coming back to the Sabres.

The problem is, even if these moves were to be made, they would be made according to what Botterill likes, and that is not a winning formula.

Which is why I would love to see Botterill gone before the big moves happen, but that's not going to happen! 

So now we have to pray he not only get these moves done, but he gets lucky in terms of the players coming back. 

This guy thinks Sheary/Montour/Vesey/ type players are good pieces on a winning hockey team.

So we have problems, of course.

 

 

 

[PASabreFan]

2 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

Sure, I'd love to see Dahlin score more goals, but other than that I think he's well on track. It'll be another 5 seasons before he even starts his defensive prime. So -- nah, I wouldn't move him.

But! If I did, I think now is not the time. His trade value was probably highest before he was picked, and now there's a bit of a lull while he's in his growing pains (particularly on a bad team where he can't freewheel with protection). Every mistake is amplified by this team because there's no margin for error. He's not young Doughty on those stacked LA Kings rosters.

But, but! I'd start by requesting a young 2C to build around, the team's top forward prospect, a D-man who can take his spot on the PP, and at least 2 first-round unprotected picks, a couple second rounders, and.... maybe a goalie swap with Hutton going back. Remember, other GM, you're trading for Baby Lidstrom for the next 15 years. I want your future! Give me your children.

I'd love to know what every GM would offer for Dahlin.

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

At first blush the entire premise of this thread made me recoil. But then I took some time to think about my beliefs about how you build a team, use your cap, etc.

I don't want to trade Dahlin. But, there is going to be a point where I might not object, and it's going to be when he signs his first major contract. 

I generally believe a team shouldn't spend much over a quarter of its cap on defense. Teams that do don't tend to win Cups. 

If Dahlin is going to get paid 10mil/yr at some point in the next couple years, I'm not sure I have the stomach for that. If he's going to get 8 I'd feel better. 

It's really going to come down to what is best for this team. Right now Dahlin doesn't cost much of anything so there's no reason to trade him. You can spend on forwards for now and hope you sign Dahlin for the right price. 

If the price is too high though, I move on. I don't think a franchise d man is as valuable as having good forwards. Look at San Jose right now... 

I like this episode of Dark.

[PerreaultForever]

If you're going to blockbuster you'd be better off to make it Eichel and not Dahlin. Jack has to be closer to a psychological break than Rasmus is. He's still young and surrounded by the right team he could still grow into what he can be but Jack, for all his great play and effort this year, might break, give up, want out sooner than later.

Saying that, of course you'd have to get a massive return and not a ROR return, but that's impossible to predict what it could be. I'm not adverse to the trade very single one of them and start over idea...................

[Ogelthorpe]

This team is soft. No one should be untouchable.  

[DarthEbriate]

9 minutes ago, Ogelthorpe said:

This team is soft. No one should be untouchable.  

It's true. No - fighting doesn't make you tough, but the only fights I can remember this year are Vesey and Eichel's double-minor non-fight. The only guy who routinely sticks up for his teammates is Reinhart. And the only guy who's consistently agitating and on-edge is Skinner (likely because he's so frustrated at his slump). We don't protect our net fiercely or force turnovers because if you don't rush the pass you're going to get hit squarely.

The only time we're difficult to play against is when Eichel has the puck on his stick in the O-zone. (And that couple week stretch when the GLO line was raising hell, which was unsustainable.)

[Eleven]

This is interesting.  A lot of emotion on one side (with a good argument here and there); a lot of good arguments on the other (with some emotion here and there).

It all depends on the return.  It always does.

I'm with the posters who don't trust Botterill to bring back the right return.  

[inkman]

4 hours ago, sabremike said:

Here is the complete list of players I would consider trading Dahlin for:

-Connor McDavid.

That is all.

Draisaitl & Nurse?

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

***** it why not? 

What can we get for Eichel? Or Skinner? Trade it all and start over. Will make the expansion draft easier. 

Don't let your love blind you.  What about Petterson & Boeser in a package?

3 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Quebec/Colorado traded the rights to Eric Lindros for basically Philly's entire farm system and ended up getting a couple of Cups out of the deal.

Exactly

3 hours ago, steveoath said:

But who is picking the players? JBot? 

That's not gonna end well.,

Fire JBot, then make the trade. 

[inkman]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

If you're going to blockbuster you'd be better off to make it Eichel and not Dahlin. Jack has to be closer to a psychological break than Rasmus is. He's still young and surrounded by the right team he could still grow into what he can be but Jack, for all his great play and effort this year, might break, give up, want out sooner than later.

Saying that, of course you'd have to get a massive return and not a ROR return, but that's impossible to predict what it could be. I'm not adverse to the trade very single one of them and start over idea...................

Except Jack is at a MVP level now.  Moving him and keeping Dahlin would just set you back 5 years. 

[DarthEbriate]

14 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I'm with the posters who don't trust Botterill to bring back the right return.  

That's the fear. When you look at each trade in a vacuum it's an OK balance in some form (even ROR, which balanced the salaries and was expected to fill out forward depth and get Berglund as a temporary 2C). When you look at it holistically --- we've not really improved beyond Eichel and Reinhart's continued growth (which is expected) and our depth has gotten a bit better because of Olofsson and MoJo (already in system and free agency).

Here's outcome of JBots's trade world, excluding extraneous picks/players (Fasching trade isn't on here):

DLo -> AHL Redmond

BUF 5th -> AHL Wilson

Kane (UFA - rental) + Guhle -> Sheary, Hunwick, Montour

ROR -> Thompson, Sobotka, D Johnson, D Miller

Pu (+ picks) -> Skinner

BUF 3rd -> Vesey

Nylander -> Jokiharju

Scandella -> Frolk

[darksabre]

1 minute ago, inkman said:

Except Jack is at a MVP level now.  Moving him and keeping Dahlin would just set you back 5 years. 

Yep. Trading Jack is out of the question. He's developed into a likeable player who will be an All Star for years to come.

[inkman]

2 hours ago, MillerVaive said:

Seeing some of the comments about how this could be a good idea & how it'd jump start our improvement & all that jazz, has me think of O'Reilly & how people thought the same thing then. That didn't turn out well & now we want to try it again but with Dahlin?

I think all these years of missing the playoffs has made a lot of us crazy.

You'd be getting back a franchise changing deal.  Think Lindros.  The Dique got #1C forsbeg, top pairing D in Duschene and Hoffman, #3C in Ricci and a #1 goalie.  Sign me up. 

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, Doohickie said:

Quebec/Colorado traded the rights to Eric Lindros for basically Philly's entire farm system and ended up getting a couple of Cups out of the deal.

Without Patrick Roy, the Avs win exactly 0 Stanley Cups.  With staying in Quebec City, there is no Patrick Roy in that organization.

Without being in Quebec City, there is no refusal of Lindros to play for the Nordique.  So, in Colorado, there is no package instead of Lindros.

Without Sakic, who Quebec drafted with their SECOND 1st round pick at 15 (the year the Sabres drafted Turgeon), there is no Stanley Cup in Colorado.

And, having the 1st overall pick, 3 years running, was also integral to their winning it all.

Not saying Forsberg wasn't critical to those wins, he definitely was.  But the rest of that haul (Ricci, Duchene, Huffman, Hextall, a pick that became Thibault, another that was traded for a different 1st in the Clark - Sundin deal, Simon, and a truckload of cash) was pretty much midlevel / low level guys that really didn't contribute nearly as much to Colorado's success as those other guys did.  And Lindros did get the Phlyers to the Finals for the 1st time in a decade; so there's that.

But without Roy, Sakic, & Clark (none of whom were obtained in any appreciable part from the fruits of the Lindros trade), Forsberg and dreck don't get it done. IMHO.

[dudacek]

I'd trade anybody.

But the hardest thing to acquire is a legitimate star and the team that gets the best player almost always wins the deal.

The Lindros deal is a failure for the Avs if Forsberg wasnt coming back.