Doohickie Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 Well, you seem like you've talked yourself into that position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 All scenarios where Kane is on the Sabres next year favor Botterill discussing a contract now. The longer Botterill waits without ANY communication the more Kane thinks the Sabres are not interested or don't want to pay him. The longer Botterill waits without ANY communication the less Kane has to wait to test the market. Botterill can wait as long as he likes but by the time the cap is set the trade value for Kane will have diminished unless you can find someone who will sign him to what Kane wants and is where Kane wants to be. The less time another team has Kane under contract the less valuable he becomes in a trade. The longer Botterill waits the more another team may rightly assume that Kane is not interested in signing with the Sabres and they can low ball the trade. If Botterill wants Kane on the team then he has to offer him a deal and make Kane think about the guaranteed money in front of him versus the market that's months out and that ANYTHING can happen between now and then to diminish his value below the contract offer. if Botterill offers him a contract and he refuses then he knows he can trade him now for maximum value (or very soon). I don't see any scenario where the probability of Kane remaining a Sabre is benefited by Botterill waiting to have a discussion. I agree for the most part with the logic you state here. Which leads me to the possibility that they haven't decided firmly whether to try and sign him or not. Further they (team) would like to win games and field a team with the best chance of doing that and Kane adds to those chances. Trading him now for picks/prospects would signal they have quit on the season and maybe in for a longer rebuild. Trading him for a proven number one defenseman on the other hand would appear to be a hockey trade to improve the current team. I like the latter better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 A few thought that was one of Jack’s worst games. Robin Lehner thought it was one of his best. Relevant comments are down a ways: http://buffalonews.com/2017/11/08/hard-effort-earns-sabres-a-light-practice/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 I agree for the most part with the logic you state here. Which leads me to the possibility that they haven't decided firmly whether to try and sign him or not. Further they (team) would like to win games and field a team with the best chance of doing that and Kane adds to those chances. Trading him now for picks/prospects would signal they have quit on the season and maybe in for a longer rebuild. Trading him for a proven number one defenseman on the other hand would appear to be a hockey trade to improve the current team. I like the latter better. In what world is Kane worth a proven number one defenseman? Why not just trade Moulson for Erik Karlsson and Griffith for PK Subban. That will certainly fix the defensive issues while also providing offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabel79 Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 In what world is Kane worth a proven number one defenseman? Why not just trade Moulson for Erik Karlsson and Griffith for PK Subban. That will certainly fix the defensive issues while also providing offense. To be fair, you'd probably need to throw in a few late-round draft picks and a bag of pucks to each... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted November 9, 2017 Report Share Posted November 9, 2017 In what world is Kane worth a proven number one defenseman? Why not just trade Moulson for Erik Karlsson and Griffith for PK Subban. That will certainly fix the defensive issues while also providing offense. Thanks for your gracious comment. Guess what I meant is to be used to obtain one. Yes, I agree something else would need to be added. Go back and get drunk your back on my ignore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 (edited) Thanks for your gracious comment. Guess what I meant is to be used to obtain one. Yes, I agree something else would need to be added. Go back and get drunk your back on my ignore. Someone had to say it. Otherwise we drift back into Roy and a first for Malkin territory and using Kane and 2 nickels probably isn't going to land us a quarter. Edited November 10, 2017 by Drunkard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 (edited) That was just a scenario. It could be that JBot has a good idea of what he wants to offer Kane but the cap isn't in a position to do that yet. There's also Reinhart to consider. Lots of moving pieces; the fact that he hasn't talked to Kane's agent means nothing with respect to his intentions (or Kane's). Though I would love Samson as a 3C, I am starting to believe they are playing him at center to see what trade value he has. A lot of team are devoid at young C and he could get us a bit of a haul. Edited November 10, 2017 by Huckleberry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 Well, you seem like you've talked yourself into that position. How do I respond to this? You provide no counter discussion. You essentially are dismissing what I've said and yet that is basically the story line that comes up with every UFA, regardless of team. It's not my narrative, it's the league's. If the two sides are not talking then what ray of light exists that they are interested in pursuing a longer relationship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 (edited) Reino isn't signed either. Does that mean the Sabres don't want him? Besides, these are internal business dealings. Could be that talks are going on and no one is talking about them because it's time to play hockey. There was all kinds of speculation about Jack's contract and then all of a sudden it was announced and a lot of people were surprised by it. I believe there as some misdirection just before it was announced. I guess my point is that no news means nothing. It just means no news, and to too strongly infer anything from that is jumping the gun. Edited November 10, 2017 by Doohickie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 Reino isn't signed either. Does that mean the Sabres don't want him? Besides, these are internal business dealings. Could be that talks are going on and no one is talking about them because it's time to play hockey. There was all kinds of speculation about Jack's contract and then all of a sudden it was announced and a lot of people were surprised by it. I believe there as some misdirection just before it was announced. I guess my point is that no news means nothing. It just means no news, and to too strongly infer anything from that is jumping the gun. You are missing two key points in the argument. First, the difference between an RFA and UFA. Reino and Eichel are/were both RFAs. They couldn't go anywhere. Second, that no contract talks have occurred, at all with Kane. Eichel and Botterill had been having conversations on the contract prior to its signing. I don't know if they've had conversations with Reino but that hardly matters since he's an RFA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 (edited) You're right, I kind of forgot about the UFA/RFA distinction. I'm still not that worried about it. There's undoubtedly a strategy going on from both sides. It may be that that JBot wants to trade Kane (I hope not), but ultimately he's been entrusted with the jewels. There's a still a lot of season left to start negotiations. Ultimately I think any JBot offer will be perceived as a low ball by the Kane camp, but I could see Kane taking (a little) less than max payout to stay here if things are going good, considering the crap that happened to him in WPG. The size of that hometown discount will depend on how much Kane thinks his Winnipeg experience is likely to recur with another team, and how things are going in the Sabres locker room. It also depends on whether he sees his success as being largely do to being Jack's wingman, versus the role he'll play on another team. The better the Sabres do, the more I think Kane will be likely to want to stay here. It's kind of a catch 22 though: the better he does, the more the Sabres will want to keep him but the more expensive it will be to do so. I hope that JBot manages to keep him, at a salary that doesn't blow up the cap. It could be that they're not talking because it really does depend on other moving pieces (Reino's contract and whether he develops into a 2C which could make ROR expendable, dealing Moulson, other potential acquisitions, development of AHL wingers which may make Kane more expendable to the team's plan, etc.) I think JBot has some work to do before he can afford Kane, and before he can decide if he even wants to keep him. Edited November 10, 2017 by Doohickie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 Yea.. I'm torn. If they can quickly shore up the defense without trading Kane and are able to sign him I am going to be happy with that. I'm happy Kane has just played the game for over a year now and there hasn't been any off-ice "antics". He's having success and he does a lot for the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted November 10, 2017 Report Share Posted November 10, 2017 Someone had to say it. Otherwise we drift back into Roy and a first for Malkin territory and using Kane and 2 nickels probably isn't going to land us a quarter. I agree here in general. We need to remember Kane is a UFA. He's going to be seen as a rental. We aren't going to get a haul for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted November 11, 2017 Report Share Posted November 11, 2017 I agree here in general. We need to remember Kane is a UFA. He's going to be seen as a rental. We aren't going to get a haul for him. Yep. Late 1st rounder and a b prospect or a solid prospect who hasn't made the jump yet are probably the absolute best things we could reasonably expect and even that is certainly not guaranteed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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