inkman Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 So I'm certain I've had more police interaction than most here. Arrested 3 times, nearly a few others. Pulled over dozens of times. Every time I thought I was nabbed. Without fail, I was cordial and respectful of the police. Everytime,I was treated with respect and even officers felt sympathy for my plight. The only time an officer was ever rude to me was when I was accused of stealing from a previous employer. I didn't steal the funds in question but I wasn't a choir boy either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 I know a couple good cops. But I can't really forgive any of them for willfully participating in a broken system. That's a ridiculous statement. If all the good cops leave the "broken system," you do you expect it to ever get fixed??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabresince70 Posted December 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 I'm not sure what your jurisdiction is like, but if my local police weren't pulling people over going that fast in a 25 MPH zone I would be furious. In my experience, the lower the speed limit is, the more residential the area is. Driving faster than intended in an area around children is reckless and inexcusable and those speeds should be an indicator of their presence. I HAVE to give 10 miles an hour for the speed device we use (In PA only radar can be 5 over and only the State Police are allowed to use it). Those extra 5 miles, very seldom are an issue. If they are speeding at 36 - 39, God bless them. Anything at 40, I am stopping you. Our chief recently paid for the "your speed is" signs. It registers speed of each car, ave. speed, no. of cars, etc... He placed it at the spot where we were getting complaints about. less than 2% of the cars that went through the area were over 10 miles. We actually have had our crime watch "Speed timing" one with a robic stopwatch, one just watching. The one without the stopwatch swore people were speeding. The one with the watch could not time one over 10 miles over. I can't speak for everyone, we have only four areas in our entire Boro where we can time (lines need to be on road for our device) and it limits where we can time. I don't "hide" I park in plain view. Most have the sense to slow down (to at least the 10 mile buffer) those that don't are almost always above "my" 15 buffer. It also puts to rest the "you pulled me over because of my..." statements. It has never mattered (even the Flyer plates) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 That's a ridiculous statement. If all the good cops leave the "broken system," you do you expect it to ever get fixed??? Change is going to have to come from the outside, no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 If you all could help me with something.... I am curious to get opinions from people that 1.don't know me and are giving honest thoughts, not what they think I want to hear, and 2. people not associated with law enforcement in any way. I know what goes through my mind when I approach a car on a traffic stop, or a couple that is arguing/fighting and neighbors have called and reported a "domestic", etc.... I am curious as to what the other side is thinking. Even what the caller is expecting. When/If you have been pulled over, and you know that you were speeding/ran a sign,whatever, what are you expecting from the officer? Do you think he is going to give you a ticket no matter the circumstances? Do you expect him to just give a warning? Do you consider that he may not have a choice? If you have ever been involved in a domestic, either an involved party or a reporting person (neighbor/witness/etc...) what have you expected? As I have gotten older, and have seen new and young officers (we recently hired one who views the world much differently than I) it has hit me that we teach fully from our POV as opposed to the publics. We certainly need to be taught to see things from a safety way (that quick movement to your jacket pocket because you just now realized that is where you left your wallet does send signals to us that you do not intend) but I think it would be helpful to have input from "the other side". Mods - feel free to get rid of this if you feel it is not appropriate, I don't intend for it to cause fighting or bad feelings and I know it is no way Sabre related, I just thought it was a good source of "unknown" friends that could help. Thanks, Dan Mixed as others have stated. I have and had a number of friends who are officers and often work with officers in the ER doing xrays and CT scans on arrestees and victims. As you stated there good and bad officers, the younger crowd with experiences from IRaq or Afganistan seem to have the hardest time understand that in a civilian society they are here to serve and protect. Got one reassigned to the xray machine with one of the old bulls when working on Capitol Hill for being disrespectful. I knew his Lueitenant... The older ones seem to intuitively know what is a threat. Most have been respectful, a couple have been jerks and suspect they would be regardless of their profession. I am always respectful, but like all authority, it should be questioned because it is fallible. The biggest question to is how avoid direct conflict. I advocate going up the food chain when an officer is abusive which I have done. Still some recent actions of a few knuckleheads have given police in general a bad rap. But police need to remember this is a democracy not run by them and they are not the final say so, just an immediate one that can only be effective based on mutual community trust and outreach. I am tired and this question has so many different layers in my life. My Dad a former Navy frogman eod, along with other former service members who became college professors effectively protested police abuse on UB campus in the 70s called the 45 group. Like I said my experience is complicated: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabresince70 Posted December 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 I feel kinda bad. You may just get piled on here. And I don't mean to disrespect you. I wish you guys didn't so closely honor that thin blue line and deal with the bad more readily, and decisively. You guys lost an ally that day. Actually, you lost a family of allies. The problem, though, is that there's no way to distinguish between a good and bad cop on sight, so all cops scare the ###### out of me on principle. You think they're not equally afraid of you? You'd send a shiver down Serpico's spine. No reason to feel bad, I KNOW that personal experience drives our feelings. Wish we could get together at a game and meet not as cop but as fellow Sabre fans. Maybe it would change a little? As far as telling good from bad, it is what makes us fear and react to movements/ certain statements the way we do. We don't know how to tell the good and bad apart, either. At least not until the incident is unfolding/or over. So I'm certain I've had more police interaction than most here. Arrested 3 times, nearly a few others. Pulled over dozens of times. Every time I thought I was nabbed. Without fail, I was cordial and respectful of the police. Everytime,I was treated with respect and even officers felt sympathy for my plight. The only time an officer was ever rude to me was when I was accused of stealing from a previous employer. I didn't steal the funds in question but I wasn't a choir boy either. I have had a person call my chief to thank me for arresting him. I really think he meant that it was me and not a certain other officer, but sure gave me a laugh. There are two residents that live in the Boro that really wish for another officer when they see me coming. It happens. Sometimes the mix is oil and water....Not everybody that gets arrested or did something stupid is a jerk. I get that. Most of us do. I worked for the Sheriff's office before the Boro. I watched the "road crew" workers. Some of the most decent people I have ever been around (and some of the worse). Sometimes, people do dumb things. Mixed as others have stated. I have and had a number of friends who are officers and often work with officers in the ER doing xrays and CT scans on arrestees and victims. As you stated there good and bad officers, the younger crowd with experiences from IRaq or Afganistan seem to have the hardest time understand that in a civilian society they are here to serve and protect. Got one reassigned to the xray machine with one of the old bulls when working on Capitol Hill for being disrespectful. I knew his Lueitenant... The older ones seem to intuitively know what is a threat. Most have been respectful, a couple have been jerks and suspect they would be regardless of their profession. I am always respectful, but like all authority, it should be questioned because it is fallible. The biggest question to is how avoid direct conflict. I advocate going up the food chain when an officer is abusive which I have done. Still some recent actions of a few knuckleheads have given police in general a bad rap. But police need to remember this is a democracy not run by them and they are not the final say so, just an immediate one that can only be effective based on mutual community trust and outreach. I am tired and this question has so many different layers in my life. My Dad a former Navy frogman eod, along with other former service members who became college professors effectively protested police abuse on UB campus in the 70s called the 45 group. Like I said my experience is complicated: Careful, it is a Republic - one of my favorite Ben Franklin quotes, when asked what kind of government we were going to have "A republic, if you can keep it" (And I am not making this a republican/democrat thing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 No reason to feel bad, I KNOW that personal experience drives our feelings. Wish we could get together at a game and meet not as cop but as fellow Sabre fans. Maybe it would change a little? As far as telling good from bad, it is what makes us fear and react to movements/ certain statements the way we do. We don't know how to tell the good and bad apart, either. At least not until the incident is unfolding/or over. I have had a person call my chief to thank me for arresting him. I really think he meant that it was me and not a certain other officer, but sure gave me a laugh. There are two residents that live in the Boro that really wish for another officer when they see me coming. It happens. Sometimes the mix is oil and water....Not everybody that gets arrested or did something stupid is a jerk. I get that. Most of us do. I worked for the Sheriff's office before the Boro. I watched the "road crew" workers. Some of the most decent people I have ever been around (and some of the worse). Sometimes, people do dumb things. I know people who are down right defiant toward police. I just SMH and don't discuss it with them. There is no hope for anyone who as soon as you mention police their reaction is " them I'm minding my own business". Which I think is code for "I'm breaking the law but I don't think I'm doing anything wrong." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabresince70 Posted December 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 I know people who are down right defiant toward police. I just SMH and don't discuss it with them. There is no hope for anyone who as soon as you mention police their reaction is "###### them I'm minding my own business". Which I think is code for "I'm breaking the law but I don't think I'm doing anything wrong." Fair enough -" that guy was speeding" ...... ######## them, I am eating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted December 3, 2015 Report Share Posted December 3, 2015 PS my best police story is from an officer friend and fellow hockey adult league linemate in the DC area had one of his daughters skate with us. Big 6'4" guy kept slashing said daughter till she baseball batted him across the wrist and threatened to kick his ^#~,,#{! We all stood up to protect her except Dad who was confident she would. Guy got scared when he saw us sit back down. He had trained her in self defense. Needless to say she married a Marine MP... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I've been driving for 38 years. Best guesstimate, I've probably been pulled over ten times, warned three and ticketed seven times. I believe each ticket was the result of a legitimate infraction. Speeding seven, rolling through a stop sign or something similar, one. I know I was ticketed twice for expired registration stickers. Mail it! I'll borrow from others to give my response. Adrenaline always. I can feel it. Not fight adrenaline, but stress adrenaline. "Do I have all of my information, is it current, etc." I get all the docs out and two-ten my hands. Yes, sir, no sir, thank you, sir. Period. A cop's job is hard. The outcome is in his/her hands. Nothing else makes sense. Respectful answers. Fortunately, my respect is sincere. It's a brutal job. Someone said "always professional, not always polite". I agree! Regarding being followed. It's happened to me. That's the worst. I believe my driving suffers. My assumption is that the cop's running plates. I have no idea. No following policeman ever pulled me over. I have two memories from sobriety checkpoints. I was driving a group of five guys home from a bachelor party. The other four were loaded. I designated drove all night. Seven iced teas! The officer asked where we were coming from and I told him. He asked me to say the alphabet backwards. I said "I can't, drunk or sober". He looked into my Jetta, noticed that the car was packed with five big guys (I'm the smallest at six foot, two hundred pounds) and said "you've got a lot of big men packed into this little car". My drunk friend awoke, looked up, and said "Farfegnugen". Cop laughed and said "be safe". Another checkpoint involved me and my wife. We were going home after dinner out at a restaurant. At the checkpoint, the cop asked if I'd had anything to drink. Remembering the words of my best man's dad, a cop, I said "yes, two glasses of wine with dinner". My friend's dad once told me a cop knows the answers to all the questions he's asking you. He just wants to learn if you're a straight shooter or a bs'er. Cop looked around the interior with his flashlight and caught a glimpse of my wife's drivers license. It was upside down and across the cab. He asked "who's that" after looking at the tiny rectangle, in the dark, from across the car. My wife said "me". He said "your hair's different". He was right. A glimpse, upside down, in the dark, with a flashlight. He said " be safe". Thank you for your service! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabresince70 Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Thanks for all responses. If no one minds, I will share with some of my co-workers. I will check back in am (I work nights tonight). Thanks again, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I know people who are down right defiant toward police. I just SMH and don't discuss it with them. There is no hope for anyone who as soon as you mention police their reaction is "###### them I'm minding my own business". Which I think is code for "I'm breaking the law but I don't think I'm doing anything wrong." Have you ever been arrested without committing anything even resembling a crime? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Have you ever been arrested without committing anything even resembling a crime? No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 No Trust me, it changes how you react the next time, especially if you were super cooperative... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) No reason to feel bad, I KNOW that personal experience drives our feelings. Wish we could get together at a game and meet not as cop but as fellow Sabre fans. Maybe it would change a little? As far as telling good from bad, it is what makes us fear and react to movements/ certain statements the way we do. We don't know how to tell the good and bad apart, either. At least not until the incident is unfolding/or over. I have had a person call my chief to thank me for arresting him. I really think he meant that it was me and not a certain other officer, but sure gave me a laugh. There are two residents that live in the Boro that really wish for another officer when they see me coming. It happens. Sometimes the mix is oil and water....Not everybody that gets arrested or did something stupid is a jerk. I get that. Most of us do. I worked for the Sheriff's office before the Boro. I watched the "road crew" workers. Some of the most decent people I have ever been around (and some of the worse). Sometimes, people do dumb things. Careful, it is a Republic - one of my favorite Ben Franklin quotes, when asked what kind of government we were going to have "A republic, if you can keep it" (And I am not making this a republican/democrat thing). Understood on the last Sentence, but to be be perfectly correct its a mix of both, some direct ie when public resolution are put on ballot and a republic when we vote for officials to represent us. But yes originally it was formed as an indirect democracy known as a a Republic. Edited December 4, 2015 by North Buffalo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Change is going to have to come from the outside, no doubt. That doesn't make an sense either. He had trained her in self defense. Needless to say she married a Marine MP... What's the connection there? Does she need self-defense to protect herself from the Marine MP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 That doesn't make an sense either. What's the connection there? Does she need self-defense to protect herself from the Marine MP? Na only a marine mp would have the guts to stay with her, she was tough as nails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 Ah, okay. I just couldn't get where that step was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabresince70 Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 since it 3:45am, and there is nothing moving but deer in the boro, let me give you a scenario that happens more often than you can imagine. you get called for a domestic (husband and wife). On arrival, the wife says they were arguing and when he went to leave, she grabbed his shirt. She scratches him in doing so. clear scratches, not deep, but bleeding,. He has been drinking, she didn't want him to leave and drive drunk. they have kids upstairs, crying and frightened. What do you do? In PA, if you go to a domestic, and there is visible injuries, you must make an arrest. Honestly, traffic stops are usually the easy ones. These can make you sit in your car and shake your head. And it happens just as often that the wife has been drinking and he grabs her to keep her from driving. And remember, you have kids upstairs that will need to be taken care of when the call is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 since it 3:45am, and there is nothing moving but deer in the boro, let me give you a scenario that happens more often than you can imagine. you get called for a domestic (husband and wife). On arrival, the wife says they were arguing and when he went to leave, she grabbed his shirt. She scratches him in doing so. clear scratches, not deep, but bleeding,. He has been drinking, she didn't want him to leave and drive drunk. they have kids upstairs, crying and frightened. What do you do? In PA, if you go to a domestic, and there is visible injuries, you must make an arrest. Honestly, traffic stops are usually the easy ones. These can make you sit in your car and shake your head. And it happens just as often that the wife has been drinking and he grabs her to keep her from driving. And remember, you have kids upstairs that will need to be taken care of when the call is over. That is tough. I thought someone had to 'press charges' before an arrest was made? Is that just my Law and Order understanding of Criminal Justice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabresince70 Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 The state is bringing the charges. People may file charges at a district justice, but when an officer does it, they are representing the commonwealth. A little further information on this - it is actually the call that inspired this thread. When I recently had this call, I arrested the wife (had too, by law), but the law does not specify what charge needs to be filed. She was arrested for harassment (it is under the assault section in the crimes code) . It is a fine of up to $300 and is a summary offense (ticket). She does not have to be booked, or held for the charge. He was not charged (attempting to DUI is not a crime and the only charge that might have been appropriate was a noise complaint since the neighbors called (but then she would have had to get another citation as well). It was strongly suggested that he stay somewhere else for the night (I provided the ride to his sister's). I did have to clear the charge with the DA's office, but they seldom question the call. The wife was livid that she got a ticket. The husband was extremely upset (he would end up paying the fine since she was a stay at home mom) and the sister was upset that she was woken up to have her brother stay the night. My question to my wife when I got home was "what were they expecting me to do?" so... the topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabresince70 Posted December 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 N'eo, running joke (around here anyway) is that whenever you ask someone if they have been drinking - you always get "yes, two beers" Because they only count the first and the last. I do not mean to imply that you had more, just made me laugh when I read it. I also remember the days when you could give someone a ride home and take his keys if he "had a little too much". those days are long gone. And it is not the officer's choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 You know, I can completely see that being the standard answer, now that you point it out. It was soooo many years ago. You made me remember something. Another boozy night out with the boys, in college, and I was not driving. A cop pulled us over and then escorted us home, driving behind us all the way to my house, where my friends all spent the night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 I don't know how you make right in that domestic scenario. It's a no win. I'm thankful I don't have that kind of drama in my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted December 4, 2015 Report Share Posted December 4, 2015 My son is a policeman although I wish he had another occupation. With the people and situations they deal with on a daily basis let alone the seemingly open season on cops I give them some leeway for bad moods now and then. I do think it's not an excuse to be abusive and I honestly believe that vast majority of officers are not. Thank God we have those guys who are willing to do this job. I wouldn't be. Thank also there families who worry about their loved ones every time they go to work. There are bad cops for sure and they deserve to be covered by the media but now and then let's give the vast majority of good ones some media attention too.JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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