Puck Daddy says GMTM's desire for Luke Richardson as coach

[Marvelo]

When has this ever happened with the Sabres?

 

All the former players everywhere under the old regieme. Everyone except Perreault has been hired for something important somewhere down the line. Lindy Ruff, Rick Dudley, Don Luce Gerry meehan, larry carriere, how many others do I have to name?

 

[IKnowPhysics]

With all these meddling charges, you're setting yourself up to have to pray at the altar of Terry of the Sabres become good.

 

Accountability?  Never.

[PASabreFan]

All the former players everywhere under the old regieme. Everyone except Perreault has been hired for something important somewhere down the line. Lindy Ruff, Rick Dudley, Don Luce Gerry meehan, larry carriere, how many others do I have to name?

 

I would like to believe his question was sarcastic, but I probably should know better by now.

Accountability?  Never.

You're right. Has Terry been held to account for anything? Has one fan admitted they were wrong about him?

With all these meddling charges, you're setting yourself up to have to pray at the altar of Terry of the Sabres become good.

Stop right there. Good isn't the goal here, and you know it. Sabres get back in the playoffs, and I'm supposed to get down on my knees?

 

But using merely good as the standard, if the Sabres are good anytime soon, I'll attribute it to Terry letting Tim do his thing, as perhaps evidenced by the quote after the Kane trade, something like, "Terry said do what you think is best." I don't think Darcy ever got that courtesy. So, maybe there's progress.

 

Having said all that, if Murray wants Richardson but Terry wants and gets Babcock, and the Sabres win big under Babcock, I will be the first to applaud that particular bit of meddling. Because it's more of an overarching decision (veteran vs. rookie coach), it's not Terry saying, "Wow, that German kid sure can skate. Go get him."

Edited February 18, 2015 by Yuri Testikov

[qwksndmonster]

I would like to believe his question was sarcastic, but I probably should know better by now.

You're right. Has Terry been held to account for anything? Has one fan admitted they were wrong about him?

Stop right there. Good isn't the goal here, and you know it. Sabres get back in the playoffs, and I'm supposed to get down on my knees?

 

But using merely good as the standard, if the Sabres are good anytime soon, I'll attribute it to Terry letting Tim do his thing, as perhaps evidenced by the quote after the Kane trade, something like, "Terry said do what you think is best." I don't think Darcy ever got that courtesy. So, maybe there's progress.

 

Having said all that, if Murray wants Richardson but Terry wants and gets Babcock, and the Sabres win big under Babcock, I will be the first to applaud that particular bit of meddling. Because it's more of an overarching decision (veteran vs. rookie coach), it's not Terry saying, "Wow, that German kid sure can skate. Go get him."

 

Stop right there.  Is Terry a dirty Meddler?  Or is he a good owner putting his hockey people in charge of the hockey decisions?  You can't rail against him for being a meddler and then give Tim the credit when the team is good.

[Patty16]

I would like to believe his question was sarcastic, but I probably should know better by now.

You're right. Has Terry been held to account for anything? Has one fan admitted they were wrong about him?

Stop right there. Good isn't the goal here, and you know it. Sabres get back in the playoffs, and I'm supposed to get down on my knees?

 

But using merely good as the standard, if the Sabres are good anytime soon, I'll attribute it to Terry letting Tim do his thing, as perhaps evidenced by the quote after the Kane trade, something like, "Terry said do what you think is best." I don't think Darcy ever got that courtesy. So, maybe there's progress.

 

Having said all that, if Murray wants Richardson but Terry wants and gets Babcock, and the Sabres win big under Babcock, I will be the first to applaud that particular bit of meddling. Because it's more of an overarching decision (veteran vs. rookie coach), it's not Terry saying, "Wow, that German kid sure can skate. Go get him."

 

By whom? Holding an owner accountable for what exactly? He owns the team and does as he wants. 

 

So meddling is ok sometimes maybe but only if it turns out good, so bad meddling is not good,  but how does an owner know what is good vs bad meddling?  

 

If you dont think most owners aren't at least as involved as TP and KP you really don't know what you're talking about.  

Stop right there.  Is Terry a dirty Meddler?  Or is he a good owner putting his hockey people in charge of the hockey decisions?  You can't rail against him for being a meddler and then give Tim the credit when the team is good.

 

It's intellectual dishonesty. Terry is always wrong unless he gets the #1 coach.  

[qwksndmonster]

By whom? Holding an owner accountable for what exactly? He owns the team and does as he wants. 

 

So meddling is ok sometimes maybe but only if it turns out good, so bad meddling is not good,  but how does an owner know what is good vs bad meddling?  

 

If you dont think most owners aren't at least as involved as TP and KP you really don't know what you're talking about.  

 

You hit it on the head here.  And this goes back to Judge Smell's ruling:  Meddling (to PA) more or less means owning the team.

[Patty16]

You hit it on the head here.  And this goes back to Judge Smell's ruling:  Meddling (to PA) more or less means owning the team.

 

 

It's a pretty ridiculous argument. I have yet to see one example where some move that was good for the team was overruled by King Terry.  

[PASabreFan]

By whom? Holding an owner accountable for what exactly? He owns the team and does as he wants. 

Holding an owner accountable for what? How about the state of the franchise? Owners get credit when their teams win and blame when they lose. Except Terry. He seems to be iron-clad. Maybe we're hung up on what "holding to account" means.

 

 

If you dont think most owners aren't at least as involved as TP and KP you really don't know what you're talking about.  

I really don't know. And as much as we've all wondered, and some have researched, it's really hard to nail down what goes on behind closed doors. Terry made the mistake early on of flapping his gums a lot, going on the radio and so forth, so those who wanted to pay close attention got a pretty clear picture of how he was handling things. Plus his daughter tweeted.

 

My point all along has been if every other owner meddles, and meddling by non-hockey people is not a good idea, then having an owner who doesn't meddle has to be an advantage. The definition of meddling is key, and I'm not going into that again. It's funny though, the logic of it. Every other owner meddles. Every Cup champion has a meddling owner. Meddling is good.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Yuri Testikov

[TrueBlueGED]

Stop right there.  Is Terry a dirty Meddler?  Or is he a good owner putting his hockey people in charge of the hockey decisions?  You can't rail against him for being a meddler and then give Tim the credit when the team is good.

 

I love how PA willfully walked right into that :)

[nfreeman]

All the former players everywhere under the old regieme. Everyone except Perreault has been hired for something important somewhere down the line. Lindy Ruff, Rick Dudley, Don Luce Gerry meehan, larry carriere, how many others do I have to name?

 

 

Do you think the Sabres have hired more alumni than other franchises?

 

And how exactly did those hires "do the Sabres in, year in, year out?"  Luce hasn't been with the Sabres since 2006.  Meehan left in 1994.  Dudley in 1991.

 

[Patty16]

Holding an owner accountable for what? How about the state of the franchise? Owners get credit when their teams win and blame when they lose. Except Terry. He seems to be iron-clad. Maybe we're hung up on what "holding to account" means.

 

 

 

I really don't know. And as much as we've all wondered, and some have researched, it's really hard to nail down what goes on behind closed doors. Terry made the mistake early on of flapping his gums a lot, going on the radio and so forth, so those who wanted to pay close attention got a pretty clear picture of how he was handling things. Plus his daughter tweeted.

 

My point all along has been if every other owner meddles, and meddling by non-hockey people is not a good idea, then having an owner who doesn't meddle has to be an advantage. The definition of meddling is key, and I'm not going into that again. It's funny though, the logic of it. Every other owner meddles. Every Cup champion has a meddling owner. Meddling is good.

 

Precisely, he's an owner of a sports team, not a politician.  I'm not sure how you hold him "accountable" seems to be a phrase without meaning in this context. 

 

I'm not positing such logic, simply saying that Terry is not an anomaly and his activity is much more par for the course.  Owners want to know what's going on and be involved, if only to be informed. Again, there has been zero "evidence" that he has interfered with hockey ops. 

[PASabreFan]

Stop right there.  Is Terry a dirty Meddler?  Or is he a good owner putting his hockey people in charge of the hockey decisions?  You can't rail against him for being a meddler and then give Tim the credit when the team is good.

I can rail against him for having been a meddler, applaud him for stopping and give Tim credit for the result. If that's how it plays out, yes, I can. It's a nuanced point. I don't expect TrueBlue to get it, because it's not iPegula%. I expect more from you. I am disappointed. Your mother and I both.

I'm not positing such logic, simply saying that Terry is not an anomaly and his activity is much more par for the course.  Owners want to know what's going on and be involved, if only to be informed. Again, there has been zero "evidence" that he has interfered with hockey ops. 

Golisano vs. Pegula. Tom didn't know a puck from a meatball, and he admitted as much. He'd never get down in the trenches with GMs and scouts. He was appropriately involved and informed. First four years of Terry vs. first four years of Tom, who's the better owner?

 

I always find it odd that many of Pegula's defenders will only defend him to a point. They point out he's doing what every other owner does, he has a right to be informed, etc. No one seems to be comfortable with taking the privileges of ownership to the logical extreme. Do you or do you not want Terry to have the right to pick up the phone and tell Murray to trade one of Risto/Zads? If not, why not? He owns the team!

Edited February 18, 2015 by Yuri Testikov

[nfreeman]

I can rail against him for having been a meddler, applaud him for stopping and give Tim credit for the result. If that's how it plays out, yes, I can. It's a nuanced point. I don't expect TrueBlue to get it, because it's not iPegula%. I expect more from you. I am disappointed. Your mother and I both.

Golisano vs. Pegula. Tom didn't know a puck from a meatball, and he admitted as much. He'd never get down in the trenches with GMs and scouts. He was appropriately involved and informed. First four years of Terry vs. first four years of Tom, who's the better owner?

 

I always find it odd that many of Pegula's defenders will only defend him to a point. They point out he's doing what every other owner does, he has a right to be informed, etc. No one seems to be comfortable with taking the privileges of ownership to the logical extreme. Do you or do you not want Terry to have the right to pick up the phone and tell Murray to trade one of Risto/Zads? If not, why not? He owns the team!

 

Should TG's starting roster and TP's starting roster be considered in this "analysis?"

[PASabreFan]

Do you think the Sabres have hired more alumni than other franchises?

 

And how exactly did those hires "do the Sabres in, year in, year out?"  Luce hasn't been with the Sabres since 2006.  Meehan left in 1994.  Dudley in 1991.

 

Variation on a theme. Every owner "meddles." Every franchise hires alumni. One of them wins the Cup every year. What's the problem? If every other franchise heavily weighs alumni status when hiring, what advantage would it be if your franchise didn't weigh it at all and went out and got the best talent available?

 

###### (in•cest; really?) is convenient, but not the best option. Think about what faced Terry when he bought the Sabres. Guy's a fan, wants to win Cups, has several billion jangling around in his pocket. The tree of the Sabres braintrust starts with pal Cliff Benson and goes to Cliff's client Ted Black to Ted's old boss Ken Sawyer. We could have had the most brilliant hockey minds culled from around the world. We have an old boys network. Throw in Craig Patrick if you want.

 

It's stupid. But, wait for it... that's how the world works. Everyone does it.

Should TG's starting roster and TP's starting roster be considered in this "analysis?"

Sure. 2002-2003 vs. 2010-2011 Sabres.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Yuri Testikov

[TrueBlueGED]

I can rail against him for having been a meddler, applaud him for stopping and give Tim credit for the result. If that's how it plays out, yes, I can. It's a nuanced point. I don't expect TrueBlue to get it, because it's not iPegula%. I expect more from you. I am disappointed. Your mother and I both.

 

The problem is you seemingly want to have it both ways--when things go awry you can blame Terry's meddling, and when they go well you want to assume he took a step back and it's all Murray. Unless it's the coach, then that's Terry's meddling and it's a good thing. All the while, not actually having any idea how much ownership is involved in each individual decision.

[Patty16]

I can rail against him for having been a meddler, applaud him for stopping and give Tim credit for the result. If that's how it plays out, yes, I can. It's a nuanced point. I don't expect TrueBlue to get it, because it's not iPegula%. I expect more from you. I am disappointed. Your mother and I both.

Golisano vs. Pegula. Tom didn't know a puck from a meatball, and he admitted as much. He'd never get down in the trenches with GMs and scouts. He was appropriately involved and informed. First four years of Terry vs. first four years of Tom, who's the better owner?

 

I always find it odd that many of Pegula's defenders will only defend him to a point. They point out he's doing what every other owner does, he has a right to be informed, etc. No one seems to be comfortable with taking the privileges of ownership to the logical extreme. Do you or do you not want Terry to have the right to pick up the phone and tell Murray to trade one of Risto/Zads? If not, why not? He owns the team!

 

 

He has the right to that if he wants. 

 

Again, you're dodging the point to make an obtuse suggestion.... That TP has interefered with hockey ops or made roster demands.  

I'm not here to defend or not defend TP, but I have several friends working inside NHL orgs and I can tell you without question TP is not even top 5 "meddling" owners or ownership groups. 

 

The reason people keep telling you "everyone does it" is bc you and others are suggesting that an involved owner is ipso facto a bad thing.... when it's not.  Then you insist on taking things to the "logical extreme" which is actually a logical fallacy, and dilutes your postulations quite significantly.  Your misuse of logic isn't helping your and others' cause. 

[dudacek]

Look, despite real advances in making the Sabres a nicer workplace, everybody has to admit Terry has floundered as an owner so far.

 

He tried to buy a winner with a couple ill-conceived free agent contracts, kept Darcy beyond his due date and failed miserably in picking Pat Lafontaine to lead/be a figurehead for the hockey department. He also decided to flush two full seasons down the drain in the hopes of nailing some elite talent in the draft.

 

I'm willing to forgive his early mistakes if this descent into hell pays off, because the sad reality of this plan is I have no other choice. I'm happy he OKed Tim Murray to guide the process and hope he learned his lesson from the Leino disaster and keeps out of Tim's way.

 

But believe me, if Kane, McEichel or the other proceeds of this strategy aren't making watching the Sabres more enjoyable next year though, you can mail me a pitchfork.

Edited February 18, 2015 by dudacek

[PASabreFan]

I'm not booing, I'm chanting dudacek.

[I am Defecting]

Hello again.  I'm Billy Buffalo, mascot of the Buffalo Bills, and licensed clinical psychologist.  As many, er, two or three of you might know, I admitted Ms. Akhmatova more than a week ago to ECMC for psychological evaluation with the recommendation that under no circumstances she be allowed to post on Sabrespace for two weeks at the minimum.

 

This Obamacare is a funnything, and as it turns out, that her insurance would only cover 10 days.  As the admitting doctor, my recommendation is not the be all and end all, and given her "exemplary behavior," and "extraordinary grace," her caretakers have assured me, she is due to be released this evening at 7:30pm.

 

I've been assured that no mention of "winning for the sake of it," or "holding those accountable," have entered the conversations she has had with those responsible for her care, so there's little chance of her not fitting in to her old surroundings.  Under my instruction, the number of times that Pegula was mentioned was monitored, and I was assured that it was no more than 19, but petered off sharply after her admittance interview.  If I am to trust the records, she hasn't mentioned that name in more than 8 days, so, it seems to be rather out of her field of scrutiny, thank goodness.

 

I know that this community is rather important to her, but I fear the consequences of this triggering her former irrational impulses.. which is why I've intervened and made her release conditional on the necessity that she post only on Wednesdays, and only afternoons.  This limitation I will enforce for no less than three weeks.  I hope that I will not regret this.  

 

She should be here soon.  I don't usually give in to the demands of patients, but that bitch...  she says to thank you Yuri for the flowers you sent.  They were beautiful.

 

[woods-racer]

Thank you Billy Buffalo, not only for the ongoing care and treatment of Anna , especially her mental well being, but also  understanding her deep  passion for those at SS.  I would also like to thank you for updating all of us on your progress with Anna's obsession with Mr. Pegula. I for one will try to avoid any conversations with her about that topic, as it seems to be detrimental to her healing process.

[I am Defecting]

I don't say that word.  

 

I like you Mr. Racer very much.  You are trust.

[bunomatic]

You all lost me at meddle

[I am Defecting]

You all lost me at meddle

If you do substitution of word "meddle" with word "flounder" it makes good logical sense.

 

You see, flounders live at the bottom of the ocean, and there they stay, till one day they grab what they think is food, and are dragged up into the light... then suffocate, are then filleted, and are eaten in fancy restaurant.

[PASabreFan]

[JJFIVEOH]

Look, despite real advances in making the Sabres a nicer workplace, everybody has to admit Terry has floundered as an owner so far.

 

He tried to buy a winner with a couple ill-conceived free agent contracts, kept Darcy beyond his due date and failed miserably in picking Pat Lafontaine to lead/be a figurehead for the hockey department. He also decided to flush two full seasons down the drain in the hopes of nailing some elite talent in the draft.

 

I'm willing to forgive his early mistakes if this descent into hell pays off, because the sad reality of this plan is I have no other choice. I'm happy he OKed Tim Murray to guide the process and hope he learned his lesson from the Leino disaster and keeps out of Tim's way.

 

But believe me, if Kane, McEichel or the other proceeds of this strategy aren't making watching the Sabres more enjoyable next year though, you can mail me a pitchfork.

No, not everybody.